Appalling service and care from Qantas

[MEL_Traveller]

My point is "****e happens" and as the OP stated, AA tried to work with him, provided him with a solution and he accepted it. If he wanted compo, he should have had QF re-organise things and get the compo done at the time and most likely he would have been on later flights and at the bottom of the pile. What he is trying to do now is like ringing a restaurant to complain about a meal the next day.

Depends what you mean by 'compensation.'. At the very least the OP is entitled to a refund of points (however QF works that out). Whether there should be an additional compensation I dunno. Stuff happens. it wasn't handled the best. But don't know whether having a child automatically triggers some extra compensation.

 

[Bigtones]

You really shouldn't have to go through the stress and hassle to fight for something that is rightfully yours. Even though you purchased the J seats with points, this is still a currency that is accepted by the airline. Qantas tried to do the same thing to my parents Dallas to Syd. They rang me at 3am syd time to tell me they've been downgraded to economy due to a storm therefore flight cancellation. My father said he tried asking for a different day or city but they said nothing available at the ticket counter. I decided to ring Qantas and was transferred to a office in NZ for some reason. The lady first said sorry nothing I can do. I spoke very nicely to her and said there must be something as it's my parents first experience in J. All of a sudden she said ok I can get them in J from LA- SYD and she even organised a AA flight to LA for them at no additional cost leaving in 2 hrs. I was gobsmacked myself! Nice lady in NZ. It just goes to show it depends who you speak to and who can be bothered doing the right thing for you. I definitely would not let your case go, keep writing letters, emails etc. They gave me 10000 points 2 yrs ago when I wrote in complaining about the lack of breakfast In J Sin-Syd (a fruit salad). Good luck

 

[equus]

I agree - you didn't get what you paid for so a charge back is absolutely warranted. So far Qantas has been ignoring you. A charge back should get their attention.

Sledgehammer to kill an ant. You do not have a total failure to deliver - they got you to where you were booked, just with slightly different timing, some hassle, and a down-grade on part of the trip. The OP didn't ask for anything different at the time with respect to COS (which is the only part you can actually argue that what was paid for was not deliivered). You can't assert total failure and charge back the whole amount. Good luck getting a card issuer to agree to a reasonable amount to charge back and actually doing it.

If you manage, then you will get their attention - with the possibility of getting added to a list of pax likely to initiate frivolous charge backs - i.e. a credit risk. Sounds like a good way to be flagged as "don't accept this pax in the future".

 

[turtlemichael]

Given that the OP also appears on Flyertalk, I get the impression the author only wants responses that are sympathetic and not those noting the realities of commercial airline travel.

Beyond it being normal human nature to want the best outcome possible, I don't think there is a scrap of evidence for your conclusion which hints at victim blaming.

 

[Simo]

It is cough when it doesn't go to plan but unfortunately it could have been handled better on the day... I would have been on the phone to someone in QF Australia and seeing what can be done to get me back into J... Not sure what options you had available to wait for another J seat maybe 24 delay might have been out of the question.

 

[RichardMEL]

It is cough when it doesn't go to plan but unfortunately it could have been handled better on the day... I would have been on the phone to someone in QF Australia and seeing what can be done to get me back into J... Not sure what options you had available to wait for another J seat maybe 24 delay might have been out of the question.

Well the OP had already indicated that they were offered standby J seats on the 1230AM (so say 17-18 hours post arrival) redeye flight with no guarantees to get those seats. Who is going to wait around LAX or the LA area (even without a 1 year old) for that long just at the chance of a J seat? You might as well hop the next offered flight and sleep in a real MY bed that night (specially if you had plans in NY then or the next day).

I find the very emotive words being bandied about (eg: "appalling" "disgusting" etc) to be in contrast to the actual experience related. Were they stranded for days without food or water? No. Were they denied ANY options in a timely manner to reach their destination? No. Were they not offered alternatives? No. Were staff *deliberately* rude, mean and unhelpful to them? Doesn't seem like it. Were they dragged off a plane by the cops and injured? Hell No.

I mean some perspective I think is needed.

I'm NOT defending QF or AA here, but trying to be realistic about the situation (as related) and what happened.

No question, the apparent screw up in the backroom on the reticketing to AA (ie being sent back and foward) was terrible, made that much worse being tired with a no doubt overtired and grizzly toddler in tow. Absolutely no question. These things happen from time to time. Would I complain to QF? yes absolutely. This is out of character specially for a generally well run operation at LAX where they specifically have a team for OW connections. I've had excellent, proactive, service from this team when a massively delayed AA flight got me into LAX resulting in a tight connection to QF94 to MEL and agent met myself and another pax off the bus from remote termoinal to escort us to the TBIT connector and had BP's and everything ready just in case. Could not fault this service in any way. While I get that others seem to have issues with LAX counter service by QF agents (probably contracted out) I'm sure it's still not the norm.

BUT that aside....

the usual protections were provided - an onward flight to their destination in a (seemingly) timely manner to get them there. Not in J I know, but you try getting X pax at the last minute onto already full flights? It would be unrealistic to expect instant reaccom into J as much as we'd all like that. Grounds for address by QF absolutely, but "disgusting" and "appalling" ? It no doubt FELT disgusting crammed into those AA Y seats for over 5 hours - over tired, stressed and with the poor youngster.... I have no doubt... but I still think there's perspective required. It's not clear how late off schedule they wound up in NYC from the OP's posts that I can see, but it seems they got in probably within, let's say, 3 hours of the original schedule which is probably pretty good.

My reading of events are the main issues to complain about are:

- the stuff up with the re-ticketing/moving to AA flights with the back and forward - very inconvenient
- downgrade to J on the sector due to the cancel

yes, QF follow up should address these and follow up appropriately. I have no problem with that and if they're not playing ball that is very disappointing.. Absolutely you'd think an automatic points refund would have happened (I know UA's systems used to at least so probably still do, provide for a downgrade and so on).

One wonders how long it is reasonable to wait for QF Customer Care to follow up.. that's another issue also potentially.

Poor handling at LAX absolutely. Cancel is poor, but it happens.

Sure, I wasn't there so who am I to comment on what's "disgusting" and "appalling" right? Sure.... I just feel we need some perspective among the outrage

 

[Jack_OC]

It seems that AA perhaps did not know you were on a J ticket (using points or cash not really relevant at this point) and even if they did by that point all the seats would be full of paid and AA's own pax (let alone higher status off QF snagging the few that may have been about - getting 2 seats plus infant would be a challenge I imagine!)

TBH, I doubt if AA cared whether the OP had a J ticket or not. A while back I was booked in F (on a fully paid F fare - not a YUPP or anything) from SFO-JFK with AA, and my flight was cancelled due to weather. They rebooked me in Y from SFO-DFW-LGA. I complained and they basically said "take it or leave it - your alternative is to go on standby for F, but you have basically no chance of getting a seat as you will be behind AA status pax in the pecking order". And this news was not communicated politely or with any empathy. I was travelling with work and really had no option but to get there ASAP, so I had to just suck it up. Not saying this is right, just that this is par for the course in the US when things go wrong.

 

[RichardMEL]

TBH, I doubt if AA cared whether the OP had a J ticket or not. A while back I was booked in F (on a fully paid F fare - not a YUPP or anything) from SFO-JFK with AA, and my flight was cancelled due to weather. They rebooked me in Y from SFO-DFW-LGA. I complained and they basically said "take it or leave it - your alternative is to go on standby for F, but you have basically no chance of getting a seat as you will be behind AA status pax in the pecking order". And this news was not communicated politely or with any empathy. I was travelling with work and really had no option but to get there ASAP, so I had to just suck it up. Not saying this is right, just that this is par for the course in the US when things go wrong.

geee.. that's poor.. I guess all the F seats were full at that point. nasty though to not recognise or say "Look I'm so sorry but there's no revenue F seats available right now"

ugh.

Now did AA recoup though for this downgrade?

 

[attimo69]

No because you'd be paying the taxes anyway.]

Refund of partial charges should apply. Qantas charges A LOT more award tickets in J compared to Y. It's the old fuel surcharge which they removed from paid tickets, but not from award tickets. No difference in taxes of course.

 

[Franky]

Is there somewhere on this forum where the abbreviations are described? For example what is a FIM and IRROPS?

Type in 'abbreviations' in the search box top RHC of this page, and follow the leads..

 

[gadabout]

I too have had substandard service from Qantas over the last year or so. For unknown reasons, they no longer give good service to problems from "premium passengers", although individual staff have been extremely helpful in trying to sort out the mess that Qantas itself has caused. These messes have sometimes been very major and extraordinarily inconvenient. The fundamental problem is using inexperienced staff for premium passenger issues. Sending in their "complaints" form is useless, as most of the time there is no reply, although when things started to go bad, they would phone me to assure me that it would not happen again. I have now ensured that this will indeed be the case, by switching completely to Cathay because of these recurring problems. I am a QF Platinum member, but I will certainly be off their Platinum list next year!

Absolutely horrible experience and total lack of service from Qantas staff, agents, and customer care.

My wife, 1 year old son, and I were travelling from Sydney to New York on the 22nd of April on QF11 (with short transfer in LA).

We booked business class reward seats with our hard earned points a good 9 months before the flight, so we could comfortably travel with our one year old.

We were told towards the end of the Syd to LA leg that our transfer to NYC was cancelled and that we had been re-booked on an American Airlines flight.

Upon arrival to LA, Qantas staff directed us to the AA terminal to get our new boarding passes. Once at AA terminal, agent notified us that we had been downgraded to Economy (no mention of this from Qantas flight attendant on plane), and to add insult to injury, told us that we had to return to the International terminal to get an FIM document so she could print our boarding passes!!

We returned to International terminal to get an FIM from a Qantas agent, returned to AA only to be told that they still couldn't give us our new boarding passes because the Qantas agent made a mistake on the FIM document!!!

Once agin returned to Qantas agent who finally got it right. No empathy or support from any Qantas or AA agents, considering our situation with a crying and tired 1 year old, and business class customers.

We proceeded to give Qantas customer care feedback/complaint in regards to the situation asking to be compensated for our loss (LA to NYC business class flight). They have given us no compensation, and their response was to "let management know so that they could better help others in the future"???

Extremely disappointed and complete lack of care and service from Qantas.

Does anyone give us any advice in regards to getting compensation from Qantas?

Mike

 

[GaryBne]

REMEDY Appalling service and care from Qantas - apply to Airline Customer Advocate

Dear Mike

With all the wealth of experience here I'm surprised that no one suggested to use the Airline Customer Advocate Home ..

For those who are not familiar, the ACA is an industry funded body designed to cut though all the nonsense you are facing. I have used their services with amazing success after 3 months of tenacious effort that got me nowhere.

Mike you seem more than capable of handling this, but if I may suggest you read the advice on the ACA web site.

In brief, you must have already asked the Airline for a remedy - and you have.

Next step is to lay it all out in a report - Just as you have but with more facts and details ( PRN, times etc) . No real need to scan or copy tickets/ boarding passes - but I would ... shows you are thorough/pedantic/accurate.

Then Ask for exactly what you want. Plenty of advice above on this. personally I would ask for points refund for downgrade and taxi costs to go back to International to get the correctly filled out form. In other words very realistic compensation.

I would also not be afraid to mention you are investigating if QF breached the USA laws, as discussed above, just for good measure.

Please do this - the top levels of management hear about ACA complaints - they get more attention than what you have done so far. The complaints go directly to senior staff and they have a very short time limit to solve the issue.

I was both impressed with, and grateful for, the result they achieved for me. ( posted on this forum)


Again - you seem more than capable of filing the complaint - but I am at you service to assist you if you like.

Let us know how it goes please ?

Gary

 

[Jack_OC]

geee.. that's poor.. I guess all the F seats were full at that point. nasty though to not recognise or say "Look I'm so sorry but there's no revenue F seats available right now"

ugh.

Now did AA recoup though for this downgrade?

AA did not - but I should have been clearer - it was an AA flight (AA code) but a QF ticket. Hence I assume it would not have been up to AA to compensate, AFAIK. I spoke to a couple of colleagues at the time who basically said these things happen, you chose to accept the Y flights and they got you where you were going, so I never pursued it. Maybe I should have, but based on comments above I probably wouldn't have got much out of QF, if anything.

 

[Matt_Sullivan]

I fly AA a lot in the US as a CX Diamond and can confirm OWE status is not that helpful when things go wrong.

They will re-book to get you to your destination but rank you well below their own frequent flyers so it is not hard to end up in a middle seat in economy rather than the 1B you had on the flight you missed or was cancelled (which can feel frustrating as it is probably the case that the guy in 1B is upgraded on a Y ticket)

Where OWE helps is that I find the lounge staff generally more accommodating than the gate staff, especially if you happen to be in a lounge with a F section, or a flagship lounge.

 

[Sdtravel]

With all this other stuff that is happening with United i watched this youtube video again of that happened to Dave Carrol when he tried to get compensation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YGc4zOqozo

Somewhat relevant on what you are going through.

Here is the wikipedia page on what happened to him if your interested. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Breaks_Guitars

 

[RichardMEL]

AA did not - but I should have been clearer - it was an AA flight (AA code) but a QF ticket. Hence I assume it would not have been up to AA to compensate, AFAIK. I spoke to a couple of colleagues at the time who basically said these things happen, you chose to accept the Y flights and they got you where you were going, so I never pursued it. Maybe I should have, but based on comments above I probably wouldn't have got much out of QF, if anything.

That's a pity you did not follow up with QF as on a revenue ticket (miles or $$) there would be room for something from there. Yes you got where you neded but not the service you paid for (yes I know this is debatable when discussing AA domestic "First" now Business )

 

[rollyko]

I have had a similar experience on a fully paid Business class flight JFK LAX SYD PER. Had to spend two hours upright in our seats at LAX whilst plane was unloaded looking for someones Galaxy Note 7. No warnings were given at check in only on boarding about this, but the Red Roo denied all compensation when they shoved my wife and I into squashed 737 economy having told us we missed our flight to Perth in spite of four and a half hours for the connection. Complaints to Qantas ground staff, emails to Qantas complaints and Airline Customer Advocate were a waste of time.

Unless the airline is shamed and loses business or there is legislation mandating compensation (as in Europe) the Red Roo and others will treat us like dirt. My wife and I are each Platinum QFFs.

I ran a poll on another Business flying website and of the 7 people who replied, only 3 were offered ompensation, two were able to finally negotiate it and two were never compensated in spite of all efforts

 

[drron]

I fly AA a lot in the US as a CX Diamond and can confirm OWE status is not that helpful when things go wrong.

They will re-book to get you to your destination but rank you well below their own frequent flyers so it is not hard to end up in a middle seat in economy rather than the 1B you had on the flight you missed or was cancelled (which can feel frustrating as it is probably the case that the guy in 1B is upgraded on a Y ticket)

Where OWE helps is that I find the lounge staff generally more accommodating than the gate staff, especially if you happen to be in a lounge with a F section, or a flagship lounge.

Which is why I have AA status.No problems even if on a QF ticket-revenue or points.

 

[RichardMEL]

I have had a similar experience on a fully paid Business class flight JFK LAX SYD PER. Had to spend two hours upright in our seats at LAX whilst plane was unloaded looking for someones Galaxy Note 7. No warnings were given at check in only on boarding about this, but the Red Roo denied all compensation when they shoved my wife and I into squashed 737 economy having told us we missed our flight to Perth in spite of four and a half hours for the connection. Complaints to Qantas ground staff, emails to Qantas complaints and Airline Customer Advocate were a waste of time.

Wait a minute.. how are ground staff supposed to warn you at check in there would be a delay they could not possibly know about because someone seems to have boarded with a note 7 that the crew then had to go look for?

a 737 in Y to PER is horrible I absolutely agree... did you ask when J seats were available? were you offered options to have J via MEL or BNE or later on?

I also note this is your first post - so welcome.

 

[mannej]

Wait a minute.. how are ground staff supposed to warn you at check in there would be a delay they could not possibly know about because someone seems to have boarded with a note 7 that the crew then had to go look for?

a 737 in Y to PER is horrible I absolutely agree... did you ask when J seats were available? were you offered options to have J via MEL or BNE or later on?

I also note this is your first post - so welcome.

I thought I had seen the scenario previously https://www.ausbt.com.au/community/view/42/5797/involuntary-downgrades