Are you Going to use the COVIDsafe App?

[serfty]

I did research this a fair bit and I decided I was happy to:

Privacy Policy

The COVIDSafe app speeds up contacting people exposed to coronavirus (COVID-19). This helps us support and protect you, your friends and family. Please read the content on this page before downloading.

www.health.gov.au

 

[DC3]

You could advertise on social media.

Perhaps just targeting random folk in the street and sticking close by for 15 minutes to allow for the “hand shake”. Otherwise the app will serve me no purpose.

 

[Grantxw8]

I think downloading the app should be incentivised. No, not a free case of beer , but say in terms of access to some currently restricted activities.
If the app is downloaded and active on your phone you are one of a group of people who will be allowed access to restaurants etc. Before you enter a venue you display the app. tick of approval or whatever it might be on your phone, and you are permitted to enter. Without it you can legally be refused entry.
In this way the medical authorities will be able to quickly trace any 2nd wave outbreak and the govt. might be more prepared to lift some restrictions.

I too thought this might be a way to incentivise the use of the app. However, I think it's an indication of the "good faith" of the government that the new law actually makes this illegal. The app is NOT allowed to be used as a "passport" for this kind of reward. In fact, it is not allowed to be used for any purpose other than tracing potentially infectious people. The "good faith" is shown in that this is entirely voluntary and is protected by law - by intention and not by omission .

 

[AisleSeat]

Perhaps just targeting random folk in the street and sticking close by for 15 minutes to allow for the “hand shake”. Otherwise the app will serve me no purpose.

For people who live in apartments it has the potential to be problematic, given that BT can pass through walls. IE. your neighbour next door might be infected and the app will confirm that you've spent a lot of time "near" them, but in reality, its just that you both have couches up against the same wall.

 

[harvyk]

Old fashioned technology. Simple and effective. I do understand your point but your argument is based on the assumption that the app is 100 % effective. I'm of the opinion that the results will be wildly variable. The 1.5 for 15 leaves so many holes. How about 3 for 120, or 0.2 for 1?
I sign visitor books all the time. Basic legislation could cover privacy but really anyone with privacy concerns can fudge it, in the same way as they could turn their Bluetooth off. Realistically, the app is handing out your details all the time. There may be restrictions on who can access the data the app collects, but what's to stop another app requesting the same information? The security can't be that tight or the phones would never get to communicate.
There's probably people sitting in sheds right now, working out the best way to reverse engineer and create a data mining app that just collects details from any Covid app it encounters.

Visitors books are a terrible idea, for starters should someone be infected and have signed the same visitors book the authorities would have no idea if you and the infected person where simply in the same building or where actually close enough that infection became a possibility. Plus working out exactly where an infected person has been would still take time, especially if visitors books where paper based.

Look I get it, there are going to be some who just won't download the app, and obviously you are one of those. I (and others) could come back black and blue with evidence as to why you should, but you never will. You don't need to justify your decision, although some personal reflection as to why probably wouldn't go astray.

BTW, there is no need to reverse engineer anything, they have provided a whitepaper on the protocol it uses, and they are planning on providing the full source to the tech community so we can analyse in depth exactly how it is working. In terms of a secure application I doubt any other application on your phone even comes close to the level of scrutiny that this application is getting.

As for the distance measuring in the app, my guess would be triangulation. Signal strength would be too variable between devices and environments. I did my electronics studies a very long time ago (we were still learning about valves and discrete transistors) but the applied radio and radar subjects left some impression. Triangulation might be possible between multiple devices. So, in a crowd, a single device - yours - would connect to multiple other devices and (the details are hazy) use a single known quantity/distance to calculate the others. I could probably look it up but life is short and busy...

it's not triangulation, it's based on signal strength, calibrated to the various different devices out there. That calibration is part of the reason why phones do need to send over their model types as part of the handshake. Check out page 7 for more information about the testing which they did -> https://bluetrace.io/static/bluetrace_whitepaper-938063656596c104632def383eb33b3c.pdf

OK, so my life isn't actually that busy; I found this - Bluetooth 5.1 Delivers Pinpoint Location Accuracy | Silicon UK Tech News. This relies on Bluetooth 5.1 which would only be in the latest phones so probably isn't the method used here. We're assured that the app doesn't record any geolocation information so I'm not sure how the distance measurement is done. Perhaps it requests a position and then deletes all but the distance measurement?

GPS is not used, too inaccurate, too heavy on the battery, and you'd then have legitimate concerns about government tracking, and then should someone actually test positive, identifying everyone whom they had been close enough based on GEO positions alone would be both difficult, and have a high degree of error.

 

[DC3]

.... . The app is NOT allowed to be used as a "passport" for this kind of reward. In fact, it is not allowed to be used for any purpose other than tracing potentially infectious people. The "good faith" is shown in that this is entirely voluntary and is protected by law - by intention and not by omission .

So this is all covered under existing legislation?

 

[Grantxw8]

So this is all covered under existing legislation?

Yes. It was signed into law the day the app was released by the health minister.

 

[DC3]

For people who live in apartments it has the potential to be problematic, given that BT can pass through walls. IE. your neighbour next door might be infected and the app will confirm that you've spent a lot of time "near" them, but in reality, its just that you both have couches up against the same wall.

The couches I can live with. But my neighbour’s bed is about 30cm from where I leave my iPhone overnight, on my bedside table. Could this prove to be awkward if my neighbour is contacted by Coronavirus trackers notifying her about (my) close proximity (while she was sleeping)?

Maybe I should come up with another strategy.

Edit: And her partner stays over from time to time, and he also has a phone.

 

[Pushka]

For people who live in apartments it has the potential to be problematic, given that BT can pass through walls. IE. your neighbour next door might be infected and the app will confirm that you've spent a lot of time "near" them, but in reality, its just that you both have couches up against the same wall.

Oh dear. Just shuffling the sofa right now.

 

[harvyk]

The couches I can live with. But my neighbour’s bed is about 30cm from where I leave my iPhone overnight, on my bedside table. Could this prove to be awkward if my neighbour is contacted by Coronavirus trackers notifying her about (my) close proximity (while she was sleeping)?

Maybe I should come up with another strategy.

Edit: And her partner stays over from time to time, and he also has a phone.

I was under the impression that they simply said you may have been potentially exposed to the virus without going into more detail than that. So assuming that it was your neighbour did get the virus, and you were notified, you'd still never know if it was the neighbour, or the person in the supermarket queue that stood just that little bit too close.

 

[DC3]

Oh dear. Just shuffling the sofa right now.

Not to mention the bed.

 

[p--and--t]

The worst part about the app is having to find total strangers to sit/stand near, for more than 15 minutes, to make this worthwhile.

Other apps already cater for that. Tinder or Grindr (and at least two dozen others) depending on your preferences, demographics, kinks If successful there, CovidSafe may become more useful for you LOL (especially if you/they are wearing a mask)

 

[DC3]

Other apps already cater for that. Tinder or Grindr (and at least two dozen others) depending on your preferences, demographics, kinks If successful there, CovidSafe may become more useful for you LOL (especially if you/they are wearing a mask)

I may try that. Could actually work in my favour.

 

[tomlee1986]

I may try that. Could actually work in my favour.

I doubt you can find a date using this app.. as it is not the purpose of it LOL

 

[DC3]

I doubt you can find a date using this app.. as it is not the purpose of it LOL

Perhaps an inventive soul will come up with a useful hack that we could upgrade to.

 

[tomlee1986]

Perhaps an inventive soul will come up with a useful hack that we could upgrade to.

I hope for your sake - that app will happen 1 day after the pandemic is over

 

[nutwood]

It's interesting looking back over recent comments. Some good solid discussion but it's surprising how partisan some have become. Not surprising in a general forum way, but surprising for an FF forum.
I'm not bothering to download the app, at least not at the moment. I provided my reasons for this but have not made any derogatory comments about those who choose to do so, even though I suspect many people know it'll have little relevance to them and are really supporting a placebo. How morally empty is that?
There's some sensible strategies that could be pursued and it'd be really smart if all the authorities could actually start working together and start to ease the country back into life again. It's obvious that some restrictions are definitely necessary and some are excessive. From what I can see, this virus is going to be with us for a while. An app may be helpful in some situations but it's not going to be a guardian of public health. Meanwhile, we can't even get a coordinated discussion on schools!

 

[p--and--t]

For people who live in apartments it has the potential to be problematic, given that BT can pass through walls. IE. your neighbour next door might be infected and the app will confirm that you've spent a lot of time "near" them, but in reality, its just that you both have couches up against the same wall.

Not sure why that is perceived as a problem by so many people. Its really just an irrelevant distraction.

So what if your/their phone detects a CovidSafe app on the other side of the wall.

If neither of you get covid-19, neither of you will be asked by a medical authority to update the data and both phones will delete the data after 21 days.

If you get covid-19 AND you test positive AND you get asked to upload the data by a medical professional AND you press the button saying upload AND you accept the T&Cs again, the encrypted key anonymised data will be uploaded to a secure database and your neighbour will end up getting a text saying there is a possibility they may have been exposed and please get tested. So what

 

[AisleSeat]

The couches I can live with. But my neighbour’s bed is about 30cm from where I leave my iPhone overnight, on my bedside table. Could this prove to be awkward if my neighbour is contacted by Coronavirus trackers notifying her about (my) close proximity (while she was sleeping)?

Maybe I should come up with another strategy.

Edit: And her partner stays over from time to time, and he also has a phone.

Build a faraday cage around your bed. You can call it a four-aday poster bed!

 

[tomlee1986]

It's interesting looking back over recent comments. Some good solid discussion but it's surprising how partisan some have become. Not surprising in a general forum way, but surprising for an FF forum.
I'm not bothering to download the app, at least not at the moment. I provided my reasons for this but have not made any derogatory comments about those who choose to do so, even though I suspect many people know it'll have little relevance to them and are really supporting a placebo. How morally empty is that?
There's some sensible strategies that could be pursued and it'd be really smart if all the authorities could actually start working together and start to ease the country back into life again. It's obvious that some restrictions are definitely necessary and some are excessive. From what I can see, this virus is going to be with us for a while. An app may be helpful in some situations but it's not going to be a guardian of public health. Meanwhile, we can't even get a coordinated discussion on schools!

I believe in robust and respectful debates as well.. I think your points are valid.. I for one unfortunately am not going to download the app no matter what - the reasons are well documented here.. but for some, they could be persuaded.. my question is what strategies that you might have to convince those whom are not as hard against downloading and using the app?

 

[tomlee1986]

Build a faraday cage around your bed. You can call it a four-aday poster bed!

Harry Potter 4 poster bed at Hogwarts??