Are you Going to use the COVIDsafe App?

[serfty]

I did research this a fair bit and I decided I was happy to:

Privacy Policy

The COVIDSafe app speeds up contacting people exposed to coronavirus (COVID-19). This helps us support and protect you, your friends and family. Please read the content on this page before downloading.

www.health.gov.au

 

[DC3]

It's interesting looking back over recent comments. Some good solid discussion .... An app may be helpful in some situations but it's not going to be a guardian of public health ....

Also, I can’t imagine any AFFer putting themselves in a situation of remaining close to strangers for 15 minutes. Who, here, does that? We are all keeping away from non-household members aren’t we?

 

[AisleSeat]

Not sure why that is perceived as a problem by so many people. Its really just an irrelevant distraction.

So what if your/their phone detects a CovidSafe app on the other side of the wall.

If neither of you get covid-19, neither of you will be asked by a medical authority to update the data and both phones will delete the data after 21 days.

If you get covid-19 AND you test positive AND you get asked to upload the data by a medical professional AND you press the button saying upload AND you accept the T&Cs again, the encrypted key anonymised data will be uploaded to a secure database and your neighbour will end up getting a text saying there is a possibility they may have been exposed and please get tested. So what

I was thinking along the lines that with the potential for a large amount of false positives like this (given the amount of apartments in cities), there are going to be people who have been so careful about where they go and what they do, receiving a text saying they might be infected and freaking out about it.

 

[harvyk]

I believe in robust and respectful debates as well.. I think your points are valid.. I for one unfortunately am not going to download the app no matter what - the reasons are well documented here.. but for some, they could be persuaded.. my question is what strategies that you might have to convince those whom are not as hard against downloading and using the app?

That's the interesting thing about a debate like this, it's unlikely that what ever I say directly to you that you'll change your mind, however someone sitting on the side who is not as heavily invested in the debate and was sitting on the fence can be swayed into action by arguments.

Finally, I've learnt to never say never with such things. Whilst it's obvious that you're not going to be an early adopter of this application, as public trust increases even you may feel differently in the weeks / months or even years that we have to live with the virus as a threat.

 

[Walloper]

Former top public servant: I won't download the coronavirus app

Professor Seebek and the unidentified "experts" in this story obviously have no idea what data is already collected in and by their phones - and all with their consent!

If this guy has been accurately quoted (and that's not guaranteed in the SMH) then what was he doing employed at the DTA and now the ANU Cyber Institute??

This is not a tracking app - it is a contact app. There are plenty of other apps on a phone that do track - we don't seem too bothered by those.

Get over the foolish rubbish and download it now.

 

[p--and--t]

I was thinking along the lines that with the potential for a large amount of false positives like this (given the amount of apartments in cities), there are going to be people who have been so careful about where they go and what they do, receiving a text saying they might be infected and freaking out about it.

We are almost at the point of elimination of the virus already and only a month or so in. The chances of that happening (false positive) are approaching 10M :1 . Might be a whole more likely to win the Powerball.

Besides twiggy has just secured 10M test kits and the gov is really keen to use them over coming months.

 

[tomlee1986]

Besides twiggy has just secured 10M test kits and the gov is really keen to use them over coming months.

To be honest - hope those test kits work well! I don't mean the ones government ordered - but the Twiggy ones - they come from China... Hate to bust a big myth... there had been at least a few documented cases they are faulty! And not isolated cases too!

 

[Platinum Flyer]

As a doctor with a reasonable understanding of technology, I've read quite a few write-ups on the app and am confident that the potential benefits are far greater than the minimal risks. I'm using it and encourage others too, unless you have reason to be concerned that you specifically would be targeted (rather than just general mistrust of the government, as most of us have).

 

[tomlee1986]

As a doctor with a reasonable understanding of technology, I've read quite a few write-ups on the app and am confident that the potential benefits are far greater than the minimal risks. I'm using it and encourage others too, unless you have reason to be concerned that you specifically would be targeted (rather than just general mistrust of the government, as most of us have).

Thank you for your insight from a medical point of view - wish we have a bit more of such views in this forum as well

 

[p--and--t]

To be honest - hope those test kits work well! I don't mean the ones government ordered - but the Twiggy ones - they come from China... Hate to bust a big myth... there had been documented cases they are faulty! And not isolated cases too!

So far it seems from various reports the "best" kits from anywhere are ~70% accurate.

The first lot of kits developed & distributed in the USA by the CDC were less than 10% accurate.

As for these new kits, yet to be determined. Fingers crossed.

 

[harvyk]

I was thinking along the lines that with the potential for a large amount of false positives like this (given the amount of apartments in cities), there are going to be people who have been so careful about where they go and what they do, receiving a text saying they might be infected and freaking out about it.

It's because of the risk of false positives, thus they have decided on a minimum of 15 minutes at 1.5 meters to help reduce the risk of false positives, because you're right, if people keep getting "you may have been infected" messages they will simply switch off. So false positives are perhaps more dangerous in this situation than a false negative, at least from the point of view of the app.

Whilst I can't answer health questions, 15 minutes at 1.5 meters would certainly be possible at places like food courts, restaurants, bars, cinemas and other social places as well as taxi's, ubers, trains and buses. Keep in mind, that our society has many touch points, that even the most introverted person (with limited exception) will at some point come in contact with others, even if no actual interaction happens.

 

[DC3]

As a doctor with a reasonable understanding of technology, I've read quite a few write-ups on the app and am confident that the potential benefits are far greater than the minimal risks. I'm using it and encourage others too, unless you have reason to be concerned that you specifically would be targeted (rather than just general mistrust of the government, as most of us have).

Yes. It is most likely harmless.

However, regardless of the merits of the app, I’m not placing myself in close proximity to anyone, even for one minute, let alone for 15 minutes, when out and about. And, reading in between the lines on AFF, no-one else seems to be avoiding safe distancing either.

 

[tomlee1986]

Yes. It is most likely harmless.

However, regardless of the merits of the app, I’m not placing myself in close proximity to anyone, even for one minute, let alone for 15 minutes, when out and about. And, reading in between the lines on AFF, no-one else seems to be avoiding safe distancing either.

I know I wouldn't go near a person that close for 15 minutes willingly, unless necessary - despite the cases in Australia are low, but this virus can be passed on with asymptomatic people, these people will go out for shopping for essentials not knowing they are positive, and could pass the virus on to others

 

[p--and--t]

Yes. It is most likely harmless.

However, regardless of the merits of the app, I’m not placing myself in close proximity to anyone, even for one minute, let alone for 15 minutes, when out and about. And, reading in between the lines on AFF, no-one else seems to be avoiding safe distancing either.

I'm at home every day except for maybe a max of 40 mins 3-4 times a week walking in the nearby park while wearing a mask & not less than 6m from anyone else.

I intend that to remain the case until we have no detections in the state for a few weeks.

But if downloading the app helps getting to the unannounced target of the gov where they decide to reduce restrictions significantly so we can return to some form of normality and people can go back to work and earn a crust for their families and reduce the huge team of more than 1000 people sitting on the taxpayer $$$ tracing covid potential contacts manually - then I'm all for it.

The app is not intended to be foolproof, nor all encompassing, nor 100% accurate. Just one of a number of measures in a whole toolbox to be deployed to try and keep this virus under control until there is a vaccine or it burns out. It's a potential both time saver and money saver for the gov to hit any resurgences far more quickly and minimise the size of any new outbreak without huge human and $$ resources.

 

[DC3]

... 15 minutes at 1.5 meters would certainly be possible at places like food courts, restaurants, bars, cinemas and other social places as well as taxi's, ubers, trains and buses. Keep in mind, that our society has many touch points, that even the most introverted person (with limited exception) will at some point come in contact with others, even if no actual interaction happens.

Maybe I have misunderstood your post. But, once those food places, bars, cinemas, etc, reopen, this all makes sense of course. But at the moment they are not permitted to open (other than those doing food takeaway). I guess that those who must rely on public transport, etc, should use the app, although the buses and trains around my way are near-empty the way that things are and social distancing is pretty easy to follow.

 

[Pushka]

Also, I can’t imagine any AFFer putting themselves in a situation of remaining close to strangers for 15 minutes. Who, here, does that? We are all keeping away from non-household members aren’t we?

But that will change with easing of restrictions. Of course the aim is to use social distance methods. But as @tomcut2000 mentioned, people are frail and make mistakes. Especially those with teenagers and young adults. Unless you can absolutely guarantee exactly where they've been, and I would never have been able do that, then there will be outbreaks as we ease up.

Post automatically merged: Apr 30, 2020

Thank you for your insight from a medical point of view - wish we have a bit more of such views in this forum as well

There have been one or two posting in this thread. Princess Fiona for instance.

 

[tomlee1986]

But that will change with easing of restrictions. Of course the aim is to use social distance methods. But as @tomcut2000 mentioned, people are frail and make mistakes. Especially those with teenagers and young adults. Unless you can absolutely guarantee exactly where they've been, and I would never have been able do that, then there will be outbreaks as we ease up.

Post automatically merged: Apr 30, 2020

There have been one or two posting in this thread. Princess Fiona for instance.

I wouldn't call it a mistake either - as some people are not frail or made an error, but more on the fact they don't even know they are positive - being asymptomatic means they wont know they got it at the first place, so they don't even know they have passed the virus on to any other people at a supermarket for example until it is way too late to handle

 

[Princess Fiona]

It isnt just social distancing though, like the recent story of some NRL players going to a school for student interaction and ending up with a player and a student found in a very compromising situation. Now that interaction would have had the Covid app in full meltdown.

And maybe thats why some wont download it - too much history will be tracked in the event of a positive result.

There won’t be any history. Patient confidentiality will be maintained.
The App doesn’t even record your location.
It will only advise Public Health that your phone was a close contact of the patient’s phone.
It doesn’t have any other data.

 

[Princess Fiona]

I agree with you there - some as I said wont download based on history, but others wont download for the reason as you stated - especially if their partners discover something they don't want to know - such as having an affair LOL

I think a lot of people having an affair have a burner phone ?
Not that I have first hand knowledge of such things of course

 

[tomlee1986]

I think a lot of people having an affair have a burner phone ?
Not that I have first hand knowledge of such things of course

I think you are right lol ... or they will turn their phone off for less chance of tracking

 

[DC3]

I think you are right lol ... or they will turn their phone off for less chance of tracking

Even though not virus-app related, fear of another party having enabled/downloaded (secretive) tracking on their smart phone.