Asiana 777 hull loss at SFO

[eastwest101]

Sad that one of the Chinese girls who died was killed by a fire truck hitting her.

I hope the driver will be charged and tried by a jury. It's inexcusable.

Its early days in the investigation yet, but it could be possible that the passenger was not conscious or even visible to the firetruck driver - either way you would think that any potential jury in the future would not be inclined to give out a guilty verdict unless some sort of extreme negligence or something like that could be proven.

 

[MrHyde]

Reading the linked article, it said that that the girl was lying on the ground fully covered in foam... so it is possible that the fire truck driver just did not see her as she was hidden by the foam. How they know she was lying at the time, I don't know.

Its early days in the investigation yet, but it could be possible that the passenger was not conscious or even visible to the firetruck driver - either way you would think that any potential jury in the future would not be inclined to give out a guilty verdict unless some sort of extreme negligence or something like that could be proven.

 

[markis10]

I hope the driver will be charged and tried by a jury. It's inexcusable.

Do you really expect fire trucks to avoid all lumps of foam 7 inches high when responding to a threat, which is exactly what happened here reading the reports? I can think of many excuses, not the least being intent, I suspect there was none. Accidents happen, and what is not clear is whether there were already fatal injuries in place. If there was to be any legal action I would like to see the bag carriers first up on the stand, that's inexcusable.

 

[eastwest101]

Do you really expect fire trucks to avoid all lumps of foam 7 inches high when responding to a threat, which is exactly what happened here reading the reports? I can think of many excuses, not the least being intent, I suspect there was none. Accidents happen, and what is not clear is whether there were already fatal injuries in place. If there was to be any legal action I would like to see the bag carriers first up on the stand, that's inexcusable.

Agree with those sentiments, the thing that struck me from the photos was the sheer damage and forces involved in the accident and how surprising it was that there were only 2 or 3 fatalities from what must have been a fair impact, obviously there will be some passengers whom may carry long term injuries for the rest of their life with them.

 

[mannej]

Sad that one of the Chinese girls who died was killed by a fire truck hitting her.

I hope the driver will be charged and tried by a jury. It's inexcusable.

With all due respect - what an ill informed ignorant comment...

 

[Aussie_flyer]

we would not want this to cause any fire truck driver to potentially slow down when heading to a burning aircraft in future.... clearly just a freak accident , with nobody at fault (im referring to the fire truck crash incident only )

 

[Meggsy]

Thankfully, the fleet of fire vehicles at Australian airports have FLIR cameras fitted to each of them to, among many uses, try and prevent this exact scenario from occurring. Exiting, injured and ejected passengers are always an issue for responding ARFF, especially if unconscious and lying amongst debris. To suggest the driver should be charged is ludicrous. Whilst the death of the passenger is a tragedy, the driver of that fire vehicles life will never be the same again either.

 

[Fruitcake]

Sad that one of the Chinese girls who died was killed by a fire truck hitting her.

I hope the driver will be charged and tried by a jury. It's inexcusable.

So...let's imagine this scene is covered with a nice thick layer of foam.

Is it still "inexcusable" ?

 

[samh004]

Thankfully, the fleet of fire vehicles at Australian airports have FLIR cameras fitted to each of them to, among many uses, try and prevent this exact scenario from occurring. Exiting, injured and ejected passengers are always an issue for responding ARFF, especially if unconscious and lying amongst debris. To suggest the driver should be charged is ludicrous. Whilst the death of the passenger is a tragedy, the driver of that fire vehicles life will never be the same again either.

It's good to have your perspective on this issue, as it's an area many of us know nothing about. Is a FLIR camera not standard in all parts of the world? I'd have expected SFO to have pretty recent tech for all scenarios.

Barring any significant developments, I'd imagine an accident is an accident, regardless of the litigious nature of America.

 

[Batesy]

With all due respect - what an ill informed ignorant comment...

Agreed. Comments like this remind me that you don't need to have a long neck to be a goose.....

 

[Meggsy]

It's good to have your perspective on this issue, as it's an area many of us know nothing about. Is a FLIR camera not standard in all parts of the world? I'd have expected SFO to have pretty recent tech for all scenarios.

Barring any significant developments, I'd imagine an accident is an accident, regardless of the litigious nature of America.

No its not a standard unfortunately. There are ICAO recommended practices, NFPA guidance notes and in Australia we have CASA regs but all of these things focus more on the amount and type of water and foam to be carried, number of vehicles to meet various categories and so on. It is a technology that is being taken up more rapidly now by many organisations. The current fleet of ARFF vehicles in Australia did not originally come standard with this technology but thanks to some ingenuity on the part of the fleet engineer an integrated FLIR/bumper monitor was developed and is now factory fitted to all new vehicles we receive. SFO does have modern ARFF vehicles but the differences in standard equipment, types of extinguishing agents carried, volumes, etc varies wildly around the world and even within countries.

 

[RooFlyer]

No its not a standard unfortunately. There are ICAO recommended practices, NFPA guidance notes and in Australia we have CASA regs but all of these things focus more on the amount and type of water and foam to be carried, number of vehicles to meet various categories and so on. It is a technology that is being taken up more rapidly now by many organisations. The current fleet of ARFF vehicles in Australia did not originally come standard with this technology but thanks to some ingenuity on the part of the fleet engineer an integrated FLIR/bumper monitor was developed and is now factory fitted to all new vehicles we receive. SFO does have modern ARFF vehicles but the differences in standard equipment, types of extinguishing agents carried, volumes, etc varies wildly around the world and even within countries.

Thanks for that - really interesting. I'm guessing the main reason for deploying it would be for night time operations, to see escaping pax as they run all over the place?

The 'see through the foam' application is interesting. I'm imagining a Tarmac in the middle of an Australian summer, probably radiating heat >>body temperature. Cover in a layer of foam, with someone underneath and have a rescue truck belting along at whatever sped they get up to ... what sort of resolution would they get? (Not suggesting it wouldn't be useful, just a technical question)

 

[Skyring]

It's a tragedy that the ejected passenger was run over, but it wasn't deliberate, the driver was presumably doing his best, and if we required emergency vehicles to take every conceivable precaution they would never leave their garage.

In particular, navigating a debris-strewn area that was apparently concealed under foam is always going to be a challenge, and the immediate need was to put out the fire because there can have been no way of telling how many passengers and crew remained inside.

I think every one of us, looking at the footage of the plane sliding and tumbling along the runway and the pictures of the devastated interior, must be wondering how fortunate it is that so many survived. It could easily have been so very much worse.

 

[Meggsy]

Thanks for that - really interesting. I'm guessing the main reason for deploying it would be for night time operations, to see escaping pax as they run all over the place?

The 'see through the foam' application is interesting. I'm imagining a Tarmac in the middle of an Australian summer, probably radiating heat >>body temperature. Cover in a layer of foam, with someone underneath and have a rescue truck belting along at whatever sped they get up to ... what sort of resolution would they get? (Not suggesting it wouldn't be useful, just a technical question)

You are correct, the original intent was to allow greater vision in low visibility operations such as heavy fog, heavy smoke, night time, etc. The vehicles are typically travelling quite slowly once in the vicinity of the debris and SOP's call for upwind approaches wherever possible to allow smoke to be carried away from you and not hinder ops. The resolution is quite good in identifyiing different heat signatures but does have its limitations based on the viewing angle of the camera, etc.

 

[JessicaTam]

You are correct, the original intent was to allow greater vision in low visibility operations such as heavy fog, heavy smoke, night time, etc. The vehicles are typically travelling quite slowly once in the vicinity of the debris and SOP's call for upwind approaches wherever possible to allow smoke to be carried away from you and not hinder ops. The resolution is quite good in identifyiing different heat signatures but does have its limitations based on the viewing angle of the camera, etc.

Also, most FLIRs will have difficulty 'seeing' through a recently applied layer of foam.

 

[Hvr]

And some more sad news about this flight that shows just how low some people can sink:

A United Airlines customer service agent and his wife have been charged with one felony count of grand theft and two felony counts of commercial burglary for allegedly stealing luggage at San Francisco International Airport in the disarray following the crash of Asiana Airlines Flight 214, US prosecutors say.



Sean Sharif Crudup, 44, and Raychas Elizabeth Thomas, 32, both of Richmond, California, are out on bail. Crudup has pleaded not guilty to the charges. Thomas is scheduled to be arraigned on August 26 and has yet to file a plea. If c

Read more: Airline staffer charged for stealing luggage after Asiana crash

 

[anat0l]

And some more sad news about this flight that shows just how low some people can sink:

The main accused is pleading not guilty. I'd like to see how he came to that plea, unless it's just denial for the sake of denial.

You have to wonder what low-life characters are allowed to be in the world when they plunder on disasters, e.g. Hurricane Katrina, the Queensland floods, etc.

 

[Skyring]

You have to wonder what low-life characters are allowed to be in the world when they plunder on disasters, e.g. Hurricane Katrina, the Queensland floods, etc.

We're all allowed to be here. I myself wouldn't rule out disaster looting if it were to feed a starving child or to survive an emergency.

And what's laptop or two - presumably insured - against a life? It's nice to have both, but if I had to make a choice I wouldn't hesitate. And likewise, if there were a choice between a world full of thieves and one where they were tortured and executed, I'd choose life.

Not condoning theft or any other poor behaviour, mind. I hope justice prevails, any crimes are punished, and the sinners repent.

it's just that I find myself uneasy at the thought that we might wish for a world where certain classes of people are not allowed to enjoy the beauty, the peace and the love that we all take for granted. I'm sure that's not what you actually meant, and you were just condemning the behaviour, in which case I join you.

 

[docjames]

Sadly, this reinforces people carrying all and sundry off the plane in an evac.

 

[SeatBackForward]

Sadly, this reinforces people carrying all and sundry off the plane in an evac.

I don't believe the accused took luggage off the crash site, just from the airport baggage area.