Ask The Pilot

[legroom]

To add to JBs comments, i fly short haul domestic and we frequently do have issues with Centre of Gravity down to even 100 kgs. The other day out of Melbourne we had a very light load of pax and bags. We had to refuse two seat changes from the FAs as we were right on aft C of G, even with most of the pax seated fairly forward. The load sheet would have calculated out of C of G had they moved. In fact we were delayed as we had to move two pax backwards initially to meet the minimum number of pax in the emergency exit row due no shows.

On my aircraft, it becomes more of a problem with light loads, especially when coupled with minimum fuel and/or no cargo.

There must be a computerised worksheet with slots for fuel, cargo and number of traveling pax to work out the CoG for a particular flight.

Who is responsible for that ?

Management or Pilot ?

Very interesting concept as so far I have not been asked to move to another spot because the plane needs 'balancing'. But given the pilot experience here, it may happen.

 

[jb747]

There must be a computerised worksheet with slots for fuel, cargo and number of traveling pax to work out the CoG for a particular flight.

Who is responsible for that ?

Management or Pilot ?

Very interesting concept as so far I have not been asked to move to another spot because the plane needs 'balancing'. But given the pilot experience here, it may happen.

Well, everything that happens on an aircraft always comes back to being a pilot responsibility. But, in the large operations, it's actually impossible for the pilots to do all that they are responsible for, so you have to trust others to do their jobs, and to check their results. So, in an A380, I get a computerised loadsheet, and the only information that I want from it is the POB, zero fuel weight, take off weight, and zero fuel and take off CofG. But, to generate all of those numbers, some careful load crunching has to go on, in particular with the positioning of cargo.

Management is always responsible for setting up system that allow these things to be done. In the airline case, there's some form of 'load control', that will have total control over your seating and cargo loading. You won't be asked to move, because as you check in the system can only put you into seats that have been released by load control. If a very large group of people failed to show for a flight, then it may have to be redone.

So you shouldn't be asked to move unless something has changed after you were checked in.

 

[jb747]

There must be a computerised worksheet with slots for fuel, cargo and number of traveling pax to work out the CoG for a particular flight.

And it has an entry for every individual seat position. Every fuel tank, not just totals, and the exact weight and position of every cargo pallet.

 

[Boris spatsky]

On that particular day we were informed by load control that the ACARS load sheet would be delayed as it had to be redone for the no shows and subsequent movement of pax. They also had to rebalance the bags - at one point we were told we may need ballast in the forward hold or they would have to completely reassign all the seats from scratch. Thankfully that did not eventuate. In the end, the no shows and subsequent re-trim of the aircraft led to a 30 minute delay. So yes, proves just how sensitive C of G can be.

 

[harvyk]

What sort of plane do you fly Boris?

 

[jb747]

What sort of plane do you fly Boris?

Harv, Boris flies an RPT jet aircraft. Leave it at that for the time being.

 

[bryanjones]

Leaving it alone, but also curious what RPT means?

 

[markis10]

Leaving it alone, but also curious what RPT means?

Regular Passenger Transport - Airline Jet could mean RPT or charter for instance.

 

[harvyk]

Harv, Boris flies an RPT jet aircraft. Leave it at that for the time being.

Now you've completely peeked my curiosity...
But I'll leave it for now...

 

[Boris spatsky]

I choose not to reveal my employer on this forum for a number of reasons; ultimately it is not relevant to the discussion either

 

[legroom]

And it has an entry for every individual seat position. Every fuel tank, not just totals, and the exact weight and position of every cargo pallet.

I wonder if the load controller or you needs to know if the Samoan Rugby Team is on board ???

That would skew the worksheet somewhat I'd imagine.

 

[mjt57]

I choose not to reveal my employer on this forum for a number of reasons

Wise decision. Not many employers would appreciate their employees chatting in public forums about their businesses. In JB's case, he'd have to be careful about what he posts, in relation to Qantas.

Anyway, back to JB if I may. The other week I was watching a doco on US aircraft carriers (one of twenty million out there). This one discussed the phasing out of some aircraft. Some of the pilots interviewed weren't sure of their future. Typically, they'd either retire and go fly for Delta or retrain (convert) to other aircraft within the fleet. My question relates to the non-pilots, such as the F14s' "RIOs" or in JB's case, helo observers.

What sort of jobs could these guys get post-military service?

 

[Melburnian1]

Regular Passenger Transport - Airline Jet could mean RPT or charter for instance.

It's actually 'regular public transport', although substituting 'passenger' is understandable:

Civil Aviation Safety Authority - Aviation abbreviations and acronyms

I'm surprised that you didn't know, markis10.

 

[markis10]

It's actually 'regular public transport', although substituting 'passenger' is understandable:

Civil Aviation Safety Authority - Aviation abbreviations and acronyms

I'm surprised that you didn't know, markis10.

Public and Passenger are often used interchangeably in legislation and documentation, this CASA document being a good example:

Australian government intervention for mandatory implementation of SMS in markets where a Regular Passenger Transport (RPT) service is provided is required for the
following reasons

http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/newrules/ops/nprm/0803os_annex_c.pdf

You will find the states use passenger more in their legislation FWIW.

 

[jb747]

Anyway, back to JB if I may. The other week I was watching a doco on US aircraft carriers (one of twenty million out there). This one discussed the phasing out of some aircraft. Some of the pilots interviewed weren't sure of their future. Typically, they'd either retire and go fly for Delta or retrain (convert) to other aircraft within the fleet. My question relates to the non-pilots, such as the F14s' "RIOs" or in JB's case, helo observers.

What sort of jobs could these guys get post-military service?

They take up all sorts of jobs. They are well educated, and generally pretty 'go getter' type of people. I've heard of them being everything from university lecturers to lawyers. Not all pilots continue with the flying either. Many move on to other things after their time in the military...for some, the idea of commercial flying is a nightmare after their military experience.

 

[mjt57]

They take up all sorts of jobs. They are well educated, and generally pretty 'go getter' type of people. .

Yeah, I s'pose that this would be so. I'm surprised that pilots, people who dreamed of flying ever since they were kids could walk away from all things aviation. Still, like an AFL footballer, life after footy usually doesn't mean going back to play for a country side.

As far as the military goes, we had an engineer working with us who used to be a commander on a sub.

And more recently, a fellow who left either Jetstar or Qantas (we're not sure which) came to work at a local power station so he could be closer to family. He lasted all of 3 weeks before heading back into the industry. The lads said that he was very bright and would've been bored to tears, although the dough was better. And that station endured a lockout shortly afterwards...

 

[777]

Yeah, I s'pose that this would be so. I'm surprised that pilots, people who dreamed of flying ever since they were kids could walk away from all things aviation. Still, like an AFL footballer, life after footy usually doesn't mean going back to play for a country side.

In the case of one ex AFL footballer I know he is actually now a commercial pilot via a stint in the media.

As for revealing your employer understand it's not always possible but JB is actually the best company rep on this forum even if neither he nor his employer would necessarily see it that way.

 

[markis10]

Yeah, I s'pose that this would be so. I'm surprised that pilots, people who dreamed of flying ever since they were kids could walk away from all things aviation. Still, like an AFL footballer, life after footy usually doesn't mean going back to play for a country side.

People walk away from things for all sort of reasons. The late Robert Dixon who I went to school with in Traralgon walked away from being an AFL player and commercial pilot to work in film as a director/producer, most Australians however know him as the winner of Australian Survivor. He was a Helitac pilot for the NSCA.

 

[drross]

And more recently, a fellow who left either Jetstar or Qantas (we're not sure which) came to work at a local power station so he could be closer to family. He lasted all of 3 weeks before heading back into the industry. The lads said that he was very bright and would've been bored to tears, although the dough was better. And that station endured a lockout shortly afterwards...

same here. One of the Class 1 pilots I do medicals for threw in his job ( did spend a lot of time overseas) to be a local fireman, to be with his wife and 6 kids. Lasted a month. She made him apply for new jobs flying to get him out from under her feet

 

[Quickstatus]

A colleague of mine used to be a QF flight engineer on the classic 747. He exited due to medical reasons. Now he is a semi retired hospital orderly.

He would regale me about stories during his flying days

JB:

The classic 747s used to have water cooling to improve takeoff performance??
My ex-Flight engineer friend tells me sometimes without water cooling it would have been impossible to demand the level of thrust necessary for takeoff.

JB, can you confirm the water feature on the classic 747 engines