Ask The Pilot

[ChrisGibbs]

By the time the GE powered 'ugly sisters' arrived, there was quite a core of 400 pilots who'd flown the 767...and as it had all three types of engine, we were quite happy to see the GE engine appearing. By far the best of the bunch. Don't forget that the ERs are also GE powered.

The ER’s are still my preferred QF aircraft from a pax perspective. I do prefer them over the A380’s. Although recent PER- LHR and LAX-JFK experiences could put the 789 in front. I hadn't heard the 'ugly sisters' term for a while. I thought it could have been applied to the ex BA 767's that QF leased for a while as the VH-ZX* series. I also remember the ex BA 747 that QF leased as VH-NLH being called a PITA. This one stood out as it had the old "BA World" tail scheme for a period of time with the remainder of the color scheme being QF. Like VH-OEB, VH-NLH was responsible for a number of my flights being delayed or cancelled.

 

[serfty]

The 'Ugly Sisters', 747's were acquired from MH and Asiana who were suffering under the Asian financial crisis.

 

[por930]

During the setup of the FMC, you load heights for the power change, acceleration, and engine out clean up. When the aircraft gets to the height for the power change, lever climb, starts flashing on the PFD.



Not quite the right term. Normally it will be something like "nav blue". It's the annunciation on top of the PFD. Blue means armed, but not engaged yet.

Yes, when I went back and listened they said, 'Flight level 70 Blue' or 4000 feet Blue' or Glideslope localiser Blue. In each case the FO was confirming actions during approach.

JB, any thoughts now it is 'all over', you might want to work part time at the simulator facility. Your skill set is current and your practical knowledge would be very useful.

 

[jb747]

I thought it could have been applied to the ex BA 767's that QF leased for a while as the VH-ZX* series. I also remember the ex BA 747 that QF leased as VH-NLH being called a PITA.

The ‘ugly sisters’ term was never applied to the BA767s. Whilst they didn’t have a wonderful cabin fit, they weren’t bad aircraft.

NLH on the other hand.... NLH was generally considered to mean ‘never leaves the hangar’.

 

[flyer89]

NLH on the other hand.... NLH was generally considered to mean ‘never leaves the hangar’.

Happily living out its retirement in the desert. Although by the looks of things it flew for some years after being returned to BA.

 

[Melburnian1]

This is a lift from a TripAdvisor review of Jetstar Asia (3K). It doesn't explain why the number of passengers is limited. Would it be most likely that at least one toilet was defective? I assume it's 3K161 as flight number.

Isn't it more normal for volunteers to be requested by airline staff?

The reviewer has the time of boarding incorrect: he or she may mean '2325':

On January 4th we were to depart Singapore at 2305hrs and boarding at 2025. The pilot and his crew arrived 15 minutes after scheduled boarding and then we were informed that there were 144 on the plane but the pilot would only fly with 116. Everyone then from Seq 117 to 144 were summarily offloaded, we of course were one of them. The captain then informed us that if we didn’t agree to disembark he would give us till midnight then he wouldn’t fly at all affecting everyone. It was very clear from his late arrival, this disgrace of a captain had no intention of flying. There was no general page to see if those from Seq 1 to 116 would offload. We decided that we didn’t need to fly and chose to take what was being offered by the ground staff;

 

[Altair]

Didn't we at AFF refer to the exBA 767s as "The Seven Dwarfs"?

 

[Quickstatus]

How old do people go on that you know of? Domestic Pilots in their 70s? I recall Ken Broomhead who was the CP at Tiger was into his 70's, now retired.

I very vaguely remember a Broomhead as captain on a 747 but over at QF. Possibly a different clan?

 

[jb747]

This is a lift from a TripAdvisor review of Jetstar Asia (3K). It doesn't explain why the number of passengers is limited. Would it be most likely that at least one toilet was defective? I assume it's 3K161 as flight number.

Bit of a rant really. They have no idea why the crew were late, nor why the issues occurred....so for some reason that makes the captain a disgrace. He would have little to nothing to do with those chosen for offload, but as a time limit was set, I’d suggest that they’d already been flying.

Toilets would not cause this issue. You could still fly...you just can’t go. It would be some form of airworthiness or safety directive, that relates to passenger numbers. Being a crew member short, or having a door/slide unserviceable could have that effect.

 

[jb747]

I very vaguely remember a Broomhead as captain on a 747 but over at QF. Possibly a different clan?

Dick... He moved to the 767 after he hit 60 (or 65) because it was 99% domestic at that stage, and he could stay past the nominal retirement age. There were a number of pilots around that time who had brothers flying with Ansett/TAA.

 

[Quickstatus]

having a door/slide unserviceable could have that effect.

Would an unserviceable door/slide result in that cabin area to be off limits?

 

[jb747]

Would an unserviceable door/slide result in that cabin area to be off limits?

Yes, it can restrict the number of people in a zone.

 

[flyer89]

Dick... He moved to the 767 after he hit 60 (or 65) because it was 99% domestic at that stage, and he could stay past the nominal retirement age. There were a number of pilots around that time who had brothers flying with Ansett/TAA.

Think he wrote a book called Living on the edge of the universe. It’s a journal recounting his early days.

 

[mjt57]

Think he wrote a book called Living on the edge of the universe. It’s a journal recounting his early days.

https://www.amazon.com.au/Living-Edge-Universe-Paradise-Hell-ebook/dp/B00N786QL4

 

[AviatorInsight]

In light of a great thing that was going on this thread, I'm happy to keep to the tradition going from JB of my regular sim exercises.

Day 1 was a training day with a couple of items needing to be ticked off. Plus a look at different FMC failures.

Day 2 was fairly straight forward but lots of repositioning. Capt starts the exercise out of Port Vila. At about 1100' we start cleaning up and have an engine severe damage problem during the turn. Followed the SID in this case, shut the engine down and returned for an RNP approach. Didn't get visual so an OEI missed approach to setting max continuous thrust. Reposition for the Capt to do their OEI no slope guidance landing. Touched down and blew 2 tyres on the left side which we brought to a stop. This part was more of a crew coordination/management exercise. Eventually it led to just a precautionary disembarkation via an escape slide.

Then it was my turn for the RNP approach and OEI missed approach. After that, another reposition to a 5nm final and full stop.

Break time.

Next was my LOE. Was a quick flight from OOL - BNE with an MEL that basically said we couldn't use the A/P with LNAV/VNAV engaged. So I directed the Capt to accept any direct tracking using the FMC but I would fly it in basic modes. There was another failure enroute but there was no checklist for it and basically meant you needed systems knowledge to understand what the failure meant. The exercise called for a non precision approach so it was a LOC/DME approach using V/S. Did that to a missed approach.

Another reposition to MEL for some low vis stuff. Engine failure at V1, this was interesting because we were quite heavy (70t) so there was 11kts between V1 and Vr. This meant I had to control the engine failure while still on the ground and then rotate. I think it's actually easier this way because you have time to figure out the rudder so you can just lock it in once airborne.

Finally another reposition for a CATII ILS, missed approach, one more reposition for an autoland. Sim over for another 6 months. Next time it'll be the check on day 1 with extra training as required on day 2 as we move into a first look approach.

 

[mikenz]

In light of a great thing that was going on this thread, I'm happy to keep to the tradition going from JB of my regular sim exercises.

Day 1 was a training day with a couple of items needing to be ticked off. Plus a look at different FMC failures.

Day 2 was fairly straight forward but lots of repositioning. Capt starts the exercise out of Port Vila. At about 1100' we start cleaning up and have an engine severe damage problem during the turn. Followed the SID in this case, shut the engine down and returned for an RNP approach. Didn't get visual so an OEI missed approach to setting max continuous thrust. Reposition for the Capt to do their OEI no slope guidance landing. Touched down and blew 2 tyres on the left side which we brought to a stop. This part was more of a crew coordination/management exercise. Eventually it led to just a precautionary disembarkation via an escape slide.

Then it was my turn for the RNP approach and OEI missed approach. After that, another reposition to a 5nm final and full stop.

Break time.

Next was my LOE. Was a quick flight from OOL - BNE with an MEL that basically said we couldn't use the A/P with LNAV/VNAV engaged. So I directed the Capt to accept any direct tracking using the FMC but I would fly it in basic modes. There was another failure enroute but there was no checklist for it and basically meant you needed systems knowledge to understand what the failure meant. The exercise called for a non precision approach so it was a LOC/DME approach using V/S. Did that to a missed approach.

Another reposition to MEL for some low vis stuff. Engine failure at V1, this was interesting because we were quite heavy (70t) so there was 11kts between V1 and Vr. This meant I had to control the engine failure while still on the ground and then rotate. I think it's actually easier this way because you have time to figure out the rudder so you can just lock it in once airborne.

Finally another reposition for a CATII ILS, missed approach, one more reposition for an autoland. Sim over for another 6 months. Next time it'll be the check on day 1 with extra training as required on day 2 as we move into a first look approach.

Great stuff AI, good to see this tradition continuing.

Is your plan to remain FO domestic?

 

[docjames]

Interesting stuff.

Is it disorienting having the repeated "re-location" between exercises or does it just become a normal part of sim sessions?

 

[AviatorInsight]

Great stuff AI, good to see this tradition continuing.

Is your plan to remain FO domestic?

My plan is to eventually get a command. Whether that's at VA or TT remains to be seen, but it'll definitely be a domestic command. Current captains are moving to the right seat of the 330 and 777 for lifestyle so it'll be a long time before I can get back onto the wide body.

 

[AviatorInsight]

Interesting stuff.

Is it disorienting having the repeated "re-location" between exercises or does it just become a normal part of sim sessions?

A little bit yes. Even though we know it's coming it can still throw me around a bit. One second I'm doing an engine out LOE with a whole heap of considerations, next second I'm doing low vis ops in a completely different airport. So it can take a minute or two to adjust but with the amount of stuff that gets crammed into the 4hrs there's little time for that.

 

[eric2011]

In light of a great thing that was going on this thread, I'm happy to keep to the tradition going from JB of my regular sim exercises.

Day 1 was a training day with a couple of items needing to be ticked off. Plus a look at different FMC failures.

Day 2 was fairly straight forward but lots of repositioning. Capt starts the exercise out of Port Vila. At about 1100' we start cleaning up and have an engine severe damage problem during the turn. Followed the SID in this case, shut the engine down and returned for an RNP approach. Didn't get visual so an OEI missed approach to setting max continuous thrust. Reposition for the Capt to do their OEI no slope guidance landing. Touched down and blew 2 tyres on the left side which we brought to a stop. This part was more of a crew coordination/management exercise. Eventually it led to just a precautionary disembarkation via an escape slide.

Then it was my turn for the RNP approach and OEI missed approach. After that, another reposition to a 5nm final and full stop.

Break time.

Next was my LOE. Was a quick flight from OOL - BNE with an MEL that basically said we couldn't use the A/P with LNAV/VNAV engaged. So I directed the Capt to accept any direct tracking using the FMC but I would fly it in basic modes. There was another failure enroute but there was no checklist for it and basically meant you needed systems knowledge to understand what the failure meant. The exercise called for a non precision approach so it was a LOC/DME approach using V/S. Did that to a missed approach.

Another reposition to MEL for some low vis stuff. Engine failure at V1, this was interesting because we were quite heavy (70t) so there was 11kts between V1 and Vr. This meant I had to control the engine failure while still on the ground and then rotate. I think it's actually easier this way because you have time to figure out the rudder so you can just lock it in once airborne.

Finally another reposition for a CATII ILS, missed approach, one more reposition for an autoland. Sim over for another 6 months. Next time it'll be the check on day 1 with extra training as required on day 2 as we move into a first look approach.

I find all of this excellent however I, like I am sure many others, do not know what all the abbreviations etc mean.
As a reference I find this site helpful. Aviation Acronyms & Abbreviations for Pilots | FlightDeckFriend.com