Ask The Pilot

[WheelieBagWanderer]

I saw this clip of a BA 787 Go-Around from last week at LHR. I'm not normally one to dramatise things, but this looks quite scary to a lay person. Pilots here, in this aborted landing how close was it to touching down nose gear first? Close as it looks in the video or a case of "move on, nothing to see here?"

 

[jb747]

I saw this clip of a BA 787 Go-Around from last week at LHR. I'm not normally one to dramatise things, but this looks quite scary to a lay person. Pilots here, in this aborted landing how close was it to touching down nose gear first? Close as it looks in the video or a case of "move on, nothing to see here?"

Scary bit of footage indeed. He’s very, very, close to a nose gear first landing. But, not by choice. It’s actually a very nice save.

If you watch the video frame by frame, at about the 11 second mark, when the nose is pitching down, you can see that he’s applied FULL up elevator. I expect that he initiated the go around at the same time, so before the main gear touched down.

My guess would be that the wind suddenly dropped to well below what had been its mean.

 

[WheelieBagWanderer]

Thanks JB.

Those Brit pilots like ours, seem to be exceptionally well trained. I guess many are ex-RAF?

Just noticed that the gear doesn't retract either before the end of the clip and even the climb out looks like the wind is buffeting the aircraft. A yucky London winter's day all-round really!

 

[jb747]

Thanks JB.

Those Brit pilots like ours, seem to be exceptionally well trained. I guess many are ex-RAF?

You don’t have to be ex RAF (or RAAF) to be well trained. BA has a good reputation, and whilst we’ve always taken the p**s out of Nigel, I’ve never doubted their overall quality.

Just noticed that the gear doesn't retract either before the end of the clip and even the climb out looks like the wind is buffeting the aircraft. A yucky London winter's day all-round really!

I hadn’t noticed that, but if they got a wind-shear warning, then that would be part of the procedure. Alternatively, just waiting to get their hearts out of their mouths.

 

[jb747]

That post mortem on that Indian flight has some scary stuff in it. How does a fellow with so many hours under his belt get it so wrong?

Hours don’t always equate to quality. He’s not a young bloke, so he could well be past his prime. On the other hand, I’m amused to hear the FO’s hours describing him as experienced. More a babe in arms.

CRM is a very interesting exercise. It’s not just about the crabby old bugger in the left hand seat, but as often as not about the pushy youngster in the right. Whilst a good FO can help make the hardest of days work out well, a poor one can be quite destructive. And the FOs will be saying exactly the same about the Captains.

Really, I’m so glad that our premier airlines don’t seem to have these issues.

They have their days.... but they do try very hard not to.

 

[AviatorInsight]

Have any of our contributor pilots tried their hand at controlling? Any interest? Comments on the experience?

And for @AviatorInsight (who I think is the only one who operates into BNE), has the change to 01R/18R been difficult?

Do pilots still drop the L and R now that it’s been in place for around four months?

I haven't tried controlling but I do know that they need to have great situational awareness of what goes on and most of the time they do a great job. Part of the problem Stefan had was knowing half of the terminology and then the rules. BNE doesn't have stop bar lights so a conditional clearance can still be made there. Not sure if they send the trainee (enroute controllers) to PER or not because the style of controlling there is very different to the east coast.

As for BNE 01R. The day that came into effect, the day runway 01 ceased to exist. There is a very annoying frequency change on ground just prior to the A7 holding point where we do most of our departures from. There was extensive traffic waiting to depart on 01R, so I made a comment if we could depart on 01L to expedite our departure (very tongue in cheek), but was met with silence...

 

[AviatorInsight]

I saw this clip of a BA 787 Go-Around from last week at LHR. I'm not normally one to dramatise things, but this looks quite scary to a lay person. Pilots here, in this aborted landing how close was it to touching down nose gear first? Close as it looks in the video or a case of "move on, nothing to see here?"

I thought it was very close to going nose wheel first and a great save too!

 

[AviatorInsight]

That post mortem on that Indian flight has some scary stuff in it. How does a fellow with so many hours under his belt get it so wrong?

Really, I’m so glad that our premier airlines don’t seem to have these issues.

That was definitely scary. The loss of situational awareness on a number of occasions, and the incorrect analysis of the engines, seems to me like the FO was rushing the failure. There are some things in which you definitely can't dawdle to get the job done but no need to rush and potentially make a mistake like shutting down the wrong engine.

The only thing I'll rush is getting my oxygen mask on during a rapid depressurisation. Everything else can be done swiftly but not rushed.

I’m amused to hear the FO’s hours describing him as experienced. More a babe in arms.

I was actually laughing at this.

 

[RooFlyer]

... obvious question then ... If it grounded nose wheel first, would that be really bad (as in likely damage or collapse), or just untidy? If the go-around thrust was activated just before the nose down pitch (ie the two were unrelated), and it hit nose wheel first, again, bad result or a bit more untidy?

 

[AviatorInsight]

... obvious question then ... If it grounded nose wheel first, would that be really bad (as in likely damage or collapse), or just untidy? If the go-around thrust was activated just before the nose down pitch (ie the two were unrelated), and it hit nose wheel first, again, bad result or a bit more untidy?

Definitely would be really bad. The nose wheel isn't designed to take the load of the aircraft. So it could collapse (like a Southwest 737 did) or if it doesn't collapse could very well do some damage to the fuselage (an ANA 767 comes to mind).

 

[cambriamarsh]

From today's NZ Herald

"Our national carrier has been struck by its second turnaround drama within a week.

Air New Zealand Flight 289 [from AKL] was forced to turn back midway through its flight to Shanghai last night, according to passenger Eric Hundman.

Hundman, an assistant professor at NYU's Shanghai campus, told the Herald the flight took off from Auckland as scheduled close to midnight last night but "midway through our flight, the pilot informs us that Chinese authorities had not given this plane permission to land, so we needed to turn around. A permitting issue, supposedly," he said."

Have any pilots seen this issue before? Is there more to see do you think?

 

[QFflyermelbourne]

One for JB carrying on from the Go India discussion above...

Over the years on this thread you've commented many times that some of the major carriers that are generally well regarded by the public are actually problematic operations. Your employment status obviously prevented you from coming right out and saying what was what, although I did feel like you were dropping the odd clue from time to time and certainly got more blunt in recent months.

Now you're a free agent, can you give us your personal no fly list and are there any big names that would surprise us you'd be hesitant to fly with?

 

[por930]

I would think JB and others would need to be very careful in nominating "no fly list airlines". While JB is a free agent, he and others could still cop some serious legal issues etc depending on how he nominated the airlines. However, I am sure some hints will not go astray.

 

[Tonkatough]

From today's NZ Herald

"Our national carrier has been struck by its second turnaround drama within a week.

Air New Zealand Flight 289 [from AKL] was forced to turn back midway through its flight to Shanghai last night, according to passenger Eric Hundman.

Hundman, an assistant professor at NYU's Shanghai campus, told the Herald the flight took off from Auckland as scheduled close to midnight last night but "midway through our flight, the pilot informs us that Chinese authorities had not given this plane permission to land, so we needed to turn around. A permitting issue, supposedly," he said."

Have any pilots seen this issue before? Is there more to see do you think?

Apparently, NZ has disappeared!
Can you spot the problem with this map?

 

[mrfreeze]

Apparently, NZ has disappeared!
Can you spot the problem with this map?

So where the the aircraft land after turning back?

Now they might understand how us Tasmanians feel when we are left of the map

 

[cambriamarsh]

So where the the aircraft land after turning back?

Now they might understand how us Tasmanians feel when we are left of the map

It came back to AKL.

 

[Heater79]

JB, now that you've retired, what QF perks are you entitled to?

 

[AviatorInsight]

From today's NZ Herald

"Our national carrier has been struck by its second turnaround drama within a week.

Air New Zealand Flight 289 [from AKL] was forced to turn back midway through its flight to Shanghai last night, according to passenger Eric Hundman.

Hundman, an assistant professor at NYU's Shanghai campus, told the Herald the flight took off from Auckland as scheduled close to midnight last night but "midway through our flight, the pilot informs us that Chinese authorities had not given this plane permission to land, so we needed to turn around. A permitting issue, supposedly," he said."

Have any pilots seen this issue before? Is there more to see do you think?

Having never actually operated there I can’t say for sure, but talking to a few of the QF 330 guys, it could be an issue with slots. I’m not sure if they were on time or delayed but apparently the Chinese are very strict on slot times. One flight which diverted had an 8hr ground delay to get to PVG.

 

[SeatBackForward]

Apparently, NZ has disappeared!
Can you spot the problem with this map?

There's an entire hobby about it: Maps without New Zealand on them

There's similar groups for Maps without Tassie also.

 

[serfty]

[moderator hat]

Please keep this thread to "Ask the Pilot" type topics.

(Refer to post #1 Wiki - Ask The Pilot )​

[/moderator hat]