Ask The Pilot

[JohnM]

Canberra rarely posed an issue with traffic, the one exception I had was an F18 departure, the only way I could fit him in was to require a climb to 20000 ft within the confines of CBR airport, the F18 met the requirement.

And I bet the F18 driver had fun accommodating your instruction.

 

[harvyk]

<snip>
Light aircraft people might keep roads or cleared areas in mind,
<snip>

Yes, we sure do (well meant to at least). Whilst I'm still student pilot, the standard pre-takeoff briefing I have with the instructor in the 172 is what we'll do in the event of an engine fire or failure. We talk about what options are available at what point of the takeoff, and that includes the available paddocks at the end of the runway.

My instructor has also put me to the test on this. We were taking off on runway 35 at CBR when without warning he pulled the engine back to idle shortly after we lifted off and said "you've lost your engine, deal with it". Unfortunately landing back on 35 was no longer an option as there was not enough of it left to get the plane down and stopped in time, nor was turning back an option as we were below 1000ft AGL. Whilst we'd discussed what we'd do no more than about 60 seconds earlier, actually realising what was going on (and avoiding the temptation to push on the throttle), picking a field to land in, and getting the plane to best glide speed all within a few seconds was an interesting experience. Of course once I'd gotten the aircraft to best glide and aiming towards a suitable field, the instructor brought the throttle back to climb, and we climbed away.

He'd cleared doing this with ATC before he did this to me, but even then I wasn't expecting it.

 

[jb747]

Yes, we sure do (well meant to at least). Whilst I'm still student pilot, the standard pre-takeoff briefing I have with the instructor in the 172 is what we'll do in the event of an engine fire or failure. We talk about what options are available at what point of the takeoff, and that includes the available paddocks at the end of the runway.

My instructor has also put me to the test on this. We were taking off on runway 35 at CBR when without warning he pulled the engine back to idle shortly after we lifted off and said "you've lost your engine, deal with it". Unfortunately landing back on 35 was no longer an option as there was not enough of it left to get the plane down and stopped in time, nor was turning back an option as we were below 1000ft AGL. Whilst we'd discussed what we'd do no more than about 60 seconds earlier, actually realising what was going on (and avoiding the temptation to push on the throttle), picking a field to land in, and getting the plane to best glide speed all within a few seconds was an interesting experience. Of course once I'd gotten the aircraft to best glide and aiming towards a suitable field, the instructor brought the throttle back to climb, and we climbed away.

He'd cleared doing this with ATC before he did this to me, but even then I wasn't expecting it.

You should do innumerable EFATO exercises during your training. The students at Pt Cook were intimately associated with the adjacent paddocks, as they would see this exercise pretty well every time they went flying. And for the newly arrived instructors, an engine failure as they climbed away from the "student's" EFATO was a nice way to remind them not to let the stud back them into a wall.

As a very rough guide, the 180º arc directly in front was the only place to be looking. Like Italian driving, what's behind you, doesn't matter.

These exercises continue all the way through training, although in the Macchi and A-4 they became a quick attempt at a relight, then eject. Even on my very last A380 sim ride, with only one or two flights left, those damn engines still snuffed themselves. Three engine approaches are a doddle, but two on the same wing is always interesting.

 

[NM]

These exercises continue all the way through training, although in the Macchi and A-4 they became a quick attempt at a relight, then eject. Even on my very last A380 sim ride, with only one or two flights left, those damn engines still snuffed themselves. Three engine approaches are a doddle, but two on the same wing is always interesting.

How much of the "automatics" is still available to you in a 2-engine out scenario on the 380? For example, can you do an overweight autoland with two engines out on the same wing? Or does it revert to an operating law that removes that option and you are going to be bringing it around and back down manually?

 

[jb747]

How much of the "automatics" is still available to you in a 2-engine out scenario on the 380? For example, can you do an overweight autoland with two engines out on the same wing? Or does it revert to an operating law that removes that option and you are going to be bringing it around and back down manually?

Two engines out, on different wings, is easy, with the systems still working fairly normally. And because you don’t have that huge rudder deflection, and its associated drag, there’s a lot more performance available than you might expect. I still wouldn’t take on an overweight landing unless forced to, but you almost certainly could.

On opposite wings though, you’re really marginal for performance once fully configured. Basically, below 1,000’ you’re not even going to consider going around (perhaps higher depending upon hydraulics). The approach is flown with autopilot until about 500’. The laws shouldn’t revert (though they always might depending upon the actual failures). From 500’, you just make sure you’re going to hit the runway. Finesse isn’t going to happen. Once the auto thrust is removed, you’ll slow to the approach speed, which will be slower than the Vmca 2, so DO NOT apply full power. This is not something you’d even consider overweight.

 

[Saab34]

FOs not permitted to taxi and park? Is that a standard policy across the board? I was speaking to a 787 Captain from one Asian based carrier, new bloke in flight ops changed the policy, Captains only.

 

[jb747]

FOs not permitted to taxi and park? Is that a standard policy across the board? I was speaking to a 787 Captain from one Asian based carrier, new bloke in flight ops changed the policy, Captains only.

Varies across airlines and type. I don't think any of the 737s have a tiller on the FO's side. QF's wide bodies all had them on both sides. FO's taxied on their sector, but they're never allowed to park (unless being marshalled out on an apron). Many parking guidance systems are position sensitive, and only correct when used from the left side.

I remember flying with one FO who had come from the 737 to the 380. He couldn't drive worth a damn (and I don't think he flew much better either).

 

[RSD]

I remember flying with one FO who had come from the 737 to the 380. He couldn't drive worth a damn (and I don't think he flew much better either).

Let's hope they didn't promote him!

 

[straitman]

[mod hat] A gentle reminder that the 'Ask the Pilot' thread is for individuals to ask questions of pilots and for pilots (or where appropriate Air Traffic Controllers to answer those questions. It is NOT for general discussion. See post #1 for details. [/mod hat]