Asked to give up your Meticulously Selected Seat when on board.

[Cocitus23]

Re: Requested to give up your Meticulously Researched and selected Seat when on board

BadgerBoi - have you ever travelled with an infant? ...

A very well posed question, Simongr, which has occurred to me several times as I have perused this thread. Clearly, some posters have not had the 'joy' of travelling with infants. And even if they have no children of their own, they seem to forget they they were themselves once infants, and maybe made some minor commotion causing a little discomfort to others. We are all members of the same human race!

I continue to be surprised at how uncooperative some people seem to be to make even trivial concessions to others. Shifting back one row? Oh, really, is it such a big deal? Some day we will probably all want someone to make a concession to accommodate some desire of our own. I fear that some contributors to this post will not be deserving of such cooperation. Do unto others .....

I feel sympathy for the supposed 'dragon' at the BNE Qantas Club.

Cocitus23

 

[JohnK]

Re: Requested to give up your Meticulously Researched and selected Seat when on board

I continue to be surprised at how uncooperative some people seem to be to make even trivial concessions to others.

And it is always the organised that need to make concessions to the less organised.

I can understand a lot of the arguments about people travelling with children so in future I will consider that a valid request? Any other valid requests why I need to move from my prized bulkhead?

Shifting back one row? Oh, really, is it such a big deal? Some day we will probably all want someone to make a concession to accommodate some desire of our own. I fear that some contributors to this post will not be deserving of such cooperation. Do unto others .....

Actually 1 row back makes a huge difference? How about if the people wanting the swap are in row 72? Is it still a valid request to give up bulkhead?

And then we have the most important issue of all. What if I give up my covered bulkhead seat and move back one row and then stuck behind a chronic recliner for the duration of the flight? Do you still think this is fair?

Now my flight is ruined? But that appears to be a much better compromise than someone carrying toddler on their lap. Not really. I am just as important (yes for different reasons) than a family wanting to sit together, families with toddlers, people wanting to sit together.

And by the way why couldn't all this be sorted before boarding? Because they are cowards and believe the kind person with the good seat going to give up his privilege to accommodate them?

 

[BadgerBoi]

Re: Requested to give up your Meticulously Researched and selected Seat when on board

Also free ride? The kid doesnt take up a seat, gets no meal service and weighs about as much as a piece of carry on ...

No problem carrying such a low-maintenance piece of equipment on your lap then. Of course, if it is a problem, you'd be best advised to prepare yourself well in advance and make sure you book the bassinet seat rather than depend on the good-will of those who are better prepared.

 

[Cocitus23]

Re: Requested to give up your Meticulously Researched and selected Seat when on board

Fine, JohnK, I hear all your arguments. But we are just going to have to differ. We place different value on things.

Cocitus23.

 

[simongr]

Re: Requested to give up your Meticulously Researched and selected Seat when on board

No problem carrying such a low-maintenance piece of equipment on your lap then. Of course, if it is a problem, you'd be best advised to prepare yourself well in advance and make sure you book the bassinet seat rather than depend on the good-will of those who are better prepared.

Umm I indicated that they get no service from the airline - no no service from the parent.

Personally I did book in advance - what was actually frustrating was that QF couldnt confirm until 24 hours beforehand whether we would get the bassinet due to the number of infants on the flight.

Furthermore when we did request the bassinet on BA we were not allocated it and then onboard offered a switch from the front row of J to the bassinet seats at the back of J, were forgotten for most of the flight by the cabin crew. So please don't lecture experienced travellers about how to properly plan for the flight with children. It is not always simple.

JohnK - I appreciate your point of view and frankly on a short flight I would say to parent - live with the kid on your lap. On long flights if the kid is too big for a bassinet and you just need the room then the parent should book an emptier flight (they could google "how to book empiter flights" and probably end up here or expertflyer) and try to get seats at the back with a spare next to them. On long flights I do not think that QF should allow people to book a bassinet position (noting that the bassinet covers both seats facing the bulkhead) unless an infant is attached to the booking (and by infant I would also cap that at 12 months). At T-24 hours they should then release the bassinet positions not used by parents with sub 12m infants to high status/high fare pax. That I think would be fair on everyone.

 

[BadgerBoi]

Re: Requested to give up your Meticulously Researched and selected Seat when on board

So please don't lecture experienced travellers ...

Please feel free to follow your own advice. I suspect that I may have been travelling at least as long as you have.

 

[medhead]

Requested to give up your Meticulously Researched and selected Seat when on board.

I feel sympathy for the supposed 'dragon' at the BNE Qantas Club.

Cocitus23

Having experienced an exceedingly rude CSA on the premium check in desk in BNE about 10 years ago. I know rude dragons exist and I have no sympathy at all. It was that long ago that I can't remember what she looked like but she was ***** rude and she deserved a good kick in the backside.

As for the infant thing I've taken my allocated seat with an infant on many occasion and have never seen the need to scam my way into someone else's seat.

edit: BTW I'm just expressing my opinion on this, not disagreeing with other opinions

 

[NM]

Re: Requested to give up your Meticulously Researched and selected Seat when on board

[mod hat]
Feel free to post you opinions and experience, but refrain from personal attacks. Some posts are getting way too close to the line. If it continues, the thread will be closed and potentially infractions issued.

Recognise that different people have different opinions and values to which they are entitled and do not require modification or realignment because they differ from mine.
[/mod hat]

 

[anat0l]

Re: Requested to give up your Meticulously Researched and selected Seat when on board

We place different value on things.

That is, unfortunately, the whole linchpin underneath this entire argument.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

Re: Requested to give up your Meticulously Researched and selected Seat when on board

I continue to be surprised at how uncooperative some people seem to be to make even trivial concessions to others. Shifting back one row? Oh, really, is it such a big deal? Some day we will probably all want someone to make a concession to accommodate some desire of our own. I fear that some contributors to this post will not be deserving of such cooperation. Do unto others .....

I feel sympathy for the supposed 'dragon' at the BNE Qantas Club.

Cocitus23

After boarding I realized why the request to change was there..
The guy behind me (he clearly was not moved) needed a wheelchair at the gate and my seat would have been more accessible.

Whats interesting is that I declined based on who was asking. the number of times she has denied me of basic things and constant poor negative attitude over the years...this was her karma.

John: Shes been on both j and pleb desks

 

[Lawlass]

Re: Requested to give up your Meticulously Researched and selected Seat when on board

Originally Posted by Cocitus23
We place different value on things.

That is, unfortunately, the whole linchpin underneath this entire argument.

Not sure I see how. It seems to me they both value their own comfort more highly than that of the other, which is entirely reasonable, but I can't see how anyone can conclude that they place value on 'different things'

 

[anat0l]

Re: Requested to give up your Meticulously Researched and selected Seat when on board

After boarding I realised why the request to change was there..
The guy behind me (he clearly was not moved) needed a wheelchair at the gate and my seat would have been more accessible.

Whats interesting is that I declined based on who was asking.

So did you get a spare seat next to you after all?

It would've probably been to her benefit (or then again may be not) had she told you why she was requesting you to move. As should anyone else who requests a seat swap.

 

[BVT]

Re: Requested to give up your Meticulously Researched and selected Seat when on board

Very interesting thread.

I was asked to swap seats only the other day on a full flight to enable a disabled person and carer to sit together. Why they weren't allocated adjacent seats, who knows. I was happy to help out.

It was all done discreetly and politely by the CSM.

After take off he came to visit and ushered me forward to a J seat, thereby exhibiting a tangible thank you. Shame it was SYD/CBR!

When asked we will all apply our own value judgement and personality to the request. Having jagged 80A on QF009 in a few weeks, I may be talking nonsense if asked to move for some reason!

 

[anat0l]

Re: Requested to give up your Meticulously Researched and selected Seat when on board

Not sure I see how. It seems to me they both value their own comfort more highly than that of the other, which is entirely reasonable, but I can't see how anyone can conclude that they place value on 'different things'

What I mean to say is that we all value different factors related to the seat we choose and/or sit in, and this ultimately shapes:

• Which seats we perceive as our optimal seats
• Which seats we are not willing to sit in
• If someone requests to swap with our seat, will we oblige or not

Add to this is individual person's personal values, e.g. some of us may choose to swap with a parent with an infant even if it means our comfort is reduced, because we empathise with the parent and child. Some of us may perceive what I just said in that example as complete nonsense. And then there are shades in between that, e.g. I feel sorry for the infant and parent, but I value my comfort more.

If seating policies were set in stone and regimented (now enforcement is a different issue), the different values that people have would mean less on where we sit (although it would be all the same as to where we think we should and where we want to sit). For example, if there were a rule that any parent with an infant that can fit in a bassinet who is not occupying a seat can always occupy a bassinet-ready position even if another passenger is in that position unless that passenger is also a similar parent, then whatever values any of us possess that would help us make a decision whether to swap from a bassinet-ready position would mean little, i.e. if such a rule were in place and you sat in a bassinet-ready position but you're not an eligible parent, if an eligible parent asked for your seat the rule would mean you have no choice - you would have to move - it matters little what you believe.

However, such set-in-stone rules do not exist (or at least ones that would silence all points of contention in this thread). It is left up to all of us as humans to work it all out, and unfortunately as we all believe different things, therein are the sources of conflict and grief.

If every passenger on an aircraft didn't give two hoots about where they sat (except within the class that they paid for), then there wouldn't be such arguments! Indeed, this thread would have little point of existing. But we always know this is far, far, far from the case.

This whole thread actually reveals a lot about what values are unique to particular members.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

Re: Requested to give up your Meticulously Researched and selected Seat when on board

So did you get a spare seat next to you after all?

It would've probably been to her benefit (or then again may be not) had she told you why she was requesting you to move. As should anyone else who requests a seat swap.

J was full but Y, was not and I think she must have been referring to the J cabin being full.

Also when she asked me, a new boarding passs was already printed for me with the new seat which she huffed about after our mini debate then tore up.

If she had explained it more clearly then I may have said yes. Instead i was presented with a statement rather than a question ... And Row 2 actually has more legroom

 

[JohnK]

Re: Requested to give up your Meticulously Researched and selected Seat when on board

JohnK - I appreciate your point of view and frankly on a short flight I would say to parent - live with the kid on your lap. On long flights if the kid is too big for a bassinet and you just need the room then the parent should book an emptier flight (they could google "how to book empiter flights" and probably end up here or expertflyer) and try to get seats at the back with a spare next to them. On long flights I do not think that QF should allow people to book a bassinet position (noting that the bassinet covers both seats facing the bulkhead) unless an infant is attached to the booking (and by infant I would also cap that at 12 months). At T-24 hours they should then release the bassinet positions not used by parents with sub 12m infants to high status/high fare pax. That I think would be fair on everyone.

OK. I don't pre-allocate bassinets on long haul flights and I think this is wrong so I totally agree with you on bassinets. QF and other airlines should ensure that bassinets are not pre-allocated to people who will not use them.

I will though pre-allocate a bulkhead seat. Now I believe I have every right to that bulkhead seat as anyone else.

I am not a mean person but should I sacrifice my comfort for someone else? Perhaps I should be the good samaritan and let people walk over me all the time. I believe on a 747 there are ~20 bulkhead seats and on an A380 there are at least 14 seats. Unless there are that many people travelling with babies (too big for bassinets) why would they want my bulkhead seat?

And also if the crew are involved in one of these situations where someone wants bulkhead/bassinet seat then it would be a nice gesture to let the person who is being displaced sit in business class rather than sending them down the back and ruining their flight. Happened to me on a SYD-BNE flight on QF when I offered my 23J bassinet seat so the mother can come forward and sit with husband and daughter.

 

[simongr]

Re: Requested to give up your Meticulously Researched and selected Seat when on board

< snip >

We are in total agreement - if we take infants out of the argument there is no reason for you to move for someone else just so they can sit and hold hands on a flight and I don't think we should be put in the position of having to be the bad guy.

This is one reason I like CX herringbone - never been asked to move there...

 

[drron]

Re: Requested to give up your Meticulously Researched and selected Seat when on board

Now I fly J longhaul so this argument doesn't affect me much.The only time i was asked to move i agreed-husband and wife wanted to sit together-he moved back and i moved forward no problem.
But infants aren't the only thing in this equation.I have a bad knee.If i were sitting in a normal Y seat for a long time i would have pain and decreased movement in that knee.A bulkhead would make the situation a lot better.I am absolutely positive I am not the only one in this situation.I also do not look like there is a problem so people would be blissfully unaware of my situation.
So who gets the greatest benefit out of that bassinet seat-a father with a 21 month old who cant fit in the bassinet or someone with my sort of bad knee?Again it is just to point out there are so many factors involved so dont go assuming that someone who doesn't agree to move is just a selfish old .....

 

[Bad Seed]

Re: Requested to give up your Meticulously Researched and selected Seat when on board

I've moved twice.

The other time was only a couple of weeks ago, on a REX flight SYD-WGA. I was allocated 2A, a seat on the single side of the aisle (which I really like), and was told (not requested) as we were boarding that I'd been moved to 2B on the double side, so a "young girl" could be seated on her own in 2A, not next to someone.

She looked about 12 years old. I can only assume the guy I ended up sitting next to in 2C was a registered sex offender. No other reason, right?

Just read this whole thread and wanted to respond to this point. This happened to me as well recently but the opposite way around. I did OLCI and got a coughpy seat almost at the back but it was only CBR/SYD so not particularly worried but as I went through the gate I beeped and got reallocated the very back row so from bad seat to extremely bad. Turned out I was seated next to an unaccompanied minor (a girl about 10) and on looking around, I seemed to be the only woman travelling alone in about the last 10 rows of the plane. As it turns out, she was a delight to sit next to (I have a 10 year old myself) but it made me wonder how often women might get bumped from chosen seats to end up sitting next to unaccompanied children as I suspect they prefer children on their own to sit next to women (yes I know there's a whole argument in that but thats probably a whole different post!)

At a guess, I suspect unaccompanied children are probably quite experienced fliers and generally no trouble to sit next to but while I am not a super frequent flier, I do relish those times I manage to get away without the kids a few times a year and I'm not sure that I'd want to sit next to an unaccompanied child every time I do!

 

[Katie]

Re: Requested to give up your Meticulously Researched and selected Seat when on board

Also free ride? The kid doesnt take up a seat, gets no meal service and weighs about as much as a piece of carry on - I think on a fee for service basis 10% for int'l is expensive...

When we went to Europe with then 18mth old Little Miss, we bought her a seat, but I took note of the service offered to other infants on the QF flights. All infants/toddlers under 2 and not in their own seats were offered a bag with a few jars of babyfood, rusks, etc, by the looks of it. Certainly not worth 10% of most adult Intl fares, but it was more than no meal service. I had to insist to QF when they found out Little Miss's age when I requested her child's meals. They seemed to want to give her this bag of baby food too.
This was in 2008, not sure of it's changed in Y since then.