ATO (tax office) payments by credit card

[ninja-tim]

Hate CBA awards, they only posted point after about a month. Unlike westpac points posted about 3 days after transactions.

Ahh really? I just got my Plat card and starting to put my Income tax payment through on this card. Do the points really post at the end of the month?

 

[wafliron]

ANZ Black still works on Amex at 1.45% for QF points.
Mrscove's Bankwest is capped at 200,000 but there may be a new better card. I use it for a few weeks every August.
HSBC can pay to Kris but the earn rate is less than one for one at 0.42%. Their QF option is one for one.
Qantas Credit Union limits below 10k per 3 days I heard so that won't work.
Suggest you read all the latest "fine print" as the banks keep changing the game.

CBA diamond Amex! (and don't opt for QF.) You'll earn 1.5 VA points per dollar. (Or 1.725/$ with current promotion). This can be converted to KF points, so equivalent to 1.11 KF point/$, (1.28/$ at current promotion). Capped at 1 million diamond reward points per year. So if your tax bill is within $333k, then you are fine.

This is probably as high earn rate as you can get for KF point on ATO at the moment.

Thanks cove, VAG newbie, appreciate the advice. Seems ANZ Black, CBA Diamond and the two HSBC cards might work for me - I'll investigate further. Good point re the bonus VAG newbie - doubt I would've thought of that on my own (at least not channeling to SQ via VA) - but unfortunately I doubt I'd have the points in time to take advantage.

That's terrible! It seems to me that this sort of behavior is what will spoil it for the rest of us. A massive hit and run where you get a few hundred thousand points and the cancel the card expecting a pro rata refund of the annual fee is extremely selfish and reckless behavior. At the very least surely you could keep it for a year and put some other transactions on there to not stand out so much. Why not cancel one of your other cards?
Please don't spoil it for the rest of us

Mark3000, if I thought for a second that what I'm proposing to do would contribute to "spoiling" this any more than what everyone else is doing, I wouldn't do it. Not just changing to keeping the card for a year - not at all. But I don't agree with your sentiment.

I don't doubt that a large tax bill will show up on the card provider's radar in some way - most likely in an aggregated way - but that's not unique to me, the same goes for anyone else putting large tax bills through their CCs, of which there are many. Whether the card is kept for long or not isn't going to matter two hoots - this issue is either on the CC providers radar, or it's not. Or, perhaps more accurately, it's already on all of their radars (with all due respect, to think otherwise is simply naive), and whether I (or anyone else) keep a card for a year or not isn't going to influence their decision as to whether to continue allowing points each for ATO transactions.

The fact is that the economics of paying points on ATO transactions don't even come close to stacking up for CC providers - which is why they're all shutting it down, one-by-one. Keeping / using a card for other reasons alters the economics slightly, but unless you're a complete outlier in terms of non-ATO spend, it barely moves the needle once you're paying more than small amounts of tax this way. Or, to put it another way - if a CC provider decides to shut down points earn on ATO payments, it's going to be because of the total volumes coming through (and associated costs) - not because of what else those cardholders do / don't do with their cards.

 

[moa999]

While that may be the case certain cards (eg. The Woolworths Qantas card) targeted certain users early on while I managed to put thru some admittedly lower amounts on a regular basis - along with Amex was my regular card and often used at Woolworths

 

[moa999]

For those putting large amounts through do the payments count to Diamond status on the Hilton Macquarie card, even if non earning?

 

[Mark3000]

Thanks cove, VAG newbie, appreciate the advice. Seems ANZ Black, CBA Diamond and the two HSBC cards might work for me - I'll investigate further. Good point re the bonus VAG newbie - doubt I would've thought of that on my own (at least not channeling to SQ via VA) - but unfortunately I doubt I'd have the points in time to take advantage.



Mark3000, if I thought for a second that what I'm proposing to do would contribute to "spoiling" this any more than what everyone else is doing, I wouldn't do it. Not just changing to keeping the card for a year - not at all. But I don't agree with your sentiment.

I don't doubt that a large tax bill will show up on the card provider's radar in some way - most likely in an aggregated way - but that's not unique to me, the same goes for anyone else putting large tax bills through their CCs, of which there are many. Whether the card is kept for long or not isn't going to matter two hoots - this issue is either on the CC providers radar, or it's not. Or, perhaps more accurately, it's already on all of their radars (with all due respect, to think otherwise is simply naive), and whether I (or anyone else) keep a card for a year or not isn't going to influence their decision as to whether to continue allowing points each for ATO transactions.

The fact is that the economics of paying points on ATO transactions don't even come close to stacking up for CC providers - which is why they're all shutting it down, one-by-one. Keeping / using a card for other reasons alters the economics slightly, but unless you're a complete outlier in terms of non-ATO spend, it barely moves the needle once you're paying more than small amounts of tax this way. Or, to put it another way - if a CC provider decides to shut down points earn on ATO payments, it's going to be because of the total volumes coming through (and associated costs) - not because of what else those cardholders do / don't do with their cards.

You can say that to try and justify your actions but often when loopholes are closed it is because of those who really abuse the situation and the massive hit and run of hundreds of thousands of points and the incredibly selfish expectation to get your annual fee pro rata refunded is the most egregious abuse of the privilege of paying ATO using your credit cards I could imagine. I stand by my belief that it is this sort of behavior that will ruin it for the rest of us

 

[cove]

Based on the receipt numbers there are many more than a few folks who pay the ATO by credit card. There would be some who get no reward as they have used an unsuitable credit card or they needed to borrow to make the payment. I would not choose to cancel a card straight after earning a big reward as I don't consider that to be fair play.
I do think our family enjoys the results as much as any other family on this forum.

 

[bbqwer]

A person with Multi hundred thousands dollar tax bill - are not willing to pay CC annual fee, let say $395 annual fee. Seriously, $395 is nothing compare to MULTI HUNDRED THOUSANDS - SO LAME :shock:

 

[Isochronous]

A person with Multi hundred thousands dollar tax bill - are not willing to pay CC annual fee, let say $395 annual fee. Seriously, $395 is nothing compare to MULTI HUNDRED THOUSANDS - SO LAME :shock:

Not to mention that the CC fee might be tax deductible anyway!

 

[bbqwer]

Ahh really? I just got my Plat card and starting to put my Income tax payment through on this card. Do the points really post at the end of the month?

Yes always about a month. You can find out the next cycle by clicking the awards button. A new window will pop up, you can check transactios history , and click the month , it will tell you next cycle date.

 

[legroom]

CBA diamond Amex! (and don't opt for QF.) You'll earn 1.5 VA points per dollar. (Or 1.725/$ with current promotion). This can be converted to KF points, so equivalent to 1.11 KF point/$, (1.28/$ at current promotion). Capped at 1 million diamond reward points per year. So if your tax bill is within $333k, then you are fine.

This is probably as high earn rate as you can get for KF point on ATO at the moment.

The now-closed Westpac KF card still earns 1.25 pt/$ AFAIK - after the recent enhancement.

 

[cove]

If your tax rate is 49% on the incremental rate then those Kris miles are pretty reasonable when using Westpac Plat Amex.

 

[Hammando]

Hullo to all, especially the "old timers" of this thread - long time between drinks for me.

I stopped paying nearly as much attention a while back because my opportunities to put large ATO payments through CCs pretty much dried up. However, I do have a single opportunity to pay a significant (multi-hundred-thousand) dollar tax bill later this month, which I'd like to take advantage of if I can.

It seems much has changed in the game over the past 12 months though, with many of the old favourites no longer paying points for ATO transactions (or paying at greatly reduced points earn). From a bit of reading it looks like nothing in my current stable of cards will be of much use (but please correct me if I'm wrong) - Citi Prestige (no ATO points), CitiBusiness Gold (no ATO points), Amex Plat Edge (0.5pts/$1), NAB Qantas Platinum (no ATO points) and Westpac Altitude Black (0.75 effective pts/$1 on the Amex, no ATO points on the MC).

So, what else should I be looking at? It needs to be a card I can pump lots of money through in one month without the proverbial hitting the fan, ideally (but not required) one I can preload with funds well in excess of its credit limit and still earn points, ideally (but not required) one with a low annual fee / will pro-rata refund the annual fee (as I'll likely only keep it for a month), and I'd prefer to earn non-QF points (especially SQ) if possible (but realise I may have to take whatever I can get).

Again from a bit of reading the list I have going is:
- CBA Platinum (1.5 QF pts/$1 on the Amex I think? But also has a monthly points cap quite a bit below what I need I think?)
- Bankwest Qantas (0.75 QF pts/$1 Visa/MC I think? No annual cap?)
- I've read mention of the HSBC Plat card, but not sure if it still earns points for ATO?
- I've read mention of the ANZ BLack card, but not sure if it still earns points for ATO?
- What else should be on this list?

Thanks!

Asking for a pro-rata refund is a nice touch.

I'd be surprised if opening a new credit card and putting several hundred thousand through in the first month wouldn't provoke the "proverbial hitting the fan" regardless if it was for ATO spend or not.

Report back on how you go.

 

[diningdecadence]

...

good to see you back wafliron - you were a great help to me when i first joined AFF a few years ago.

these folks that are worried about one individual's transactions are entitled to their point of view but ultimately all of us on this forum are just a drop in the ocean to the transactions being put through both C/C's and the ATO. As we've seen ATO points earning cards come and go by the wayside, those that are upset need to make hay while the sun shines and be prepared for the need to bounce around cards as required. I personally have had to drop citi select, altitude black, and now the NAB platinum but that's part of the work and effort that is required to earn miles to redeem for cabins I would otherwise not be able to afford.

 

[Mark3000]

good to see you back wafliron - you were a great help to me when i first joined AFF a few years ago.

these folks that are worried about one individual's transactions are entitled to their point of view but ultimately all of us on this forum are just a drop in the ocean to the transactions being put through both C/C's and the ATO. As we've seen ATO points earning cards come and go by the wayside, those that are upset need to make hay while the sun shines and be prepared for the need to bounce around cards as required. I personally have had to drop citi select, altitude black, and now the NAB platinum but that's part of the work and effort that is required to earn miles to redeem for cabins I would otherwise not be able to afford.

Make hay while the sun shines is all well and good until someone creates a nuclear winter
And you are correct about shuffling cards but very soon there will be none left to shuffle

 

[burmans]

good to see you back wafliron - you were a great help to me when i first joined AFF a few years ago.

these folks that are worried about one individual's transactions are entitled to their point of view but ultimately all of us on this forum are just a drop in the ocean to the transactions being put through both C/C's and the ATO. As we've seen ATO points earning cards come and go by the wayside, those that are upset need to make hay while the sun shines and be prepared for the need to bounce around cards as required. I personally have had to drop citi select, altitude black, and now the NAB platinum but that's part of the work and effort that is required to earn miles to redeem for cabins I would otherwise not be able to afford.

I think you are right that this will inevitability come to an end, that doesn't mean I need to be happy about those who draw attention to it and hasten the closure. Actually also, I think it's exactly such abusers that will cause the banks to shut I'd down. When it's part of other spend I don't think the banks will have an issue but when it become obvious that people are only in it for ATO points it would be naive to think the banks don't notice. And then taking the piss with asking for the fee back!

 

[amaroo]

I have the same feeling towards the ones that do the deliberate double-up payment - pure greed IMO.

 

[Mark3000]

I have the same feeling towards the ones that do the deliberate double-up payment - pure greed IMO.

Yes, well said. We are all on to a good thing here and we should be grateful
but it's the same old story, some people get too greedy and kill the goose that lays the golden eggs

 

[wafliron]

You can say that to try and justify your actions but often when loopholes are closed it is because of those who really abuse the situation and the massive hit and run of hundreds of thousands of points and the incredibly selfish expectation to get your annual fee pro rata refunded is the most egregious abuse of the privilege of paying ATO using your credit cards I could imagine. I stand by my belief that it is this sort of behavior that will ruin it for the rest of us

It's not justification, it's a logical thought process about the way this sort of thing is viewed by the CC industry. If that logical thought process lead to a different conclusion then I'd go with that conclusion, even if it didn't "suit" me.

I'll also add that my view here is not just "logic-driven", but also informed by conversations I've had the opportunity to have with senior people from several different CC providers over the past 12 months - they know what's going on, and for anyone beyond a small CC-tax-payer it's costing them money (hence how many providers have stopped/reduced paying points for ATO over the past 12 months). Obviously relevant to this "debate", but the old-timers of the thread might also find this interesting given the past discussions about the economics of ATO-points for CC providers.

You, on the other hand, are simply repeating your "belief" with added personal attacks and hyperbole. If you have a logical rebuttal to my position, then, sincerely, please share it - tell me why I'm wrong, and why you're right. As with anything, I'm open to being convinced that I'm wrong, but that requires some sort of logical argument.

A person with Multi hundred thousands dollar tax bill - are not willing to pay CC annual fee, let say $395 annual fee.

Aside from anything else, it's not my tax bill.

I'd be surprised if opening a new credit card and putting several hundred thousand through in the first month wouldn't provoke the "proverbial hitting the fan" regardless if it was for ATO spend or not.

Report back on how you go.

I've done it before - as have plenty of others - without issue (beyond phone calls to check everything was legit). If I go ahead, will report back, though.

 

[Mark3000]

So you are saying in your own defense that the banks have told you they are unhappy about it and yet you are going out of your way to provoke them with a huge hit and run of hundreds of thousands of points and then having the gall to close the account and feel entitled to a pro rata refund of the annual fee???
How can you think that will not upset them?
We all try not to poke the bear but you are slapping the bear on the face

 

[wafliron]

So you are saying in your own defense that the banks have told you they are unhappy about it and yet you are going out of your way to provoke them with a huge hit and run of hundreds of thousands of points and then having the gall to close the account and feel entitled to a pro rata refund of the annual fee???
How can you think that will not upset them?
We all try not to poke the bear but you are slapping the bear on the face

That's not even close to the point I was making - go back and re-read my last couple of posts if you want to understand.

Anyway, I doubt this is going to go anywhere from here except downhill / further off-topic, so I'll leave it at that.