Australia to Reduce Incoming Int. Passenger Capacity from July 2021

[PineappleSkip]

I really don't think it's good enough that the government hasn't even had the courtesy to make a formal announcement.

I think the problem was there was nothing to announce. Agreement re 'national plan' never reached on detail and getting that agreement is as problematic as ever.

National Cabinet was designed to ensure there is almost no transparency of its proceedings and decisions,

That's how Cabinets have always worked, just google 'cabinet confidentiality'.

In fact there is a right to information from this forum, as the AAT held that it wasn't a cabinet committee at all. This will ensure any minutes are very vague.

cheers skip

 

[levelnine]

That's how Cabinets have always worked, just google 'cabinet confidentiality'.

In fact there is a right to information from this forum, as the AAT held that it wasn't a cabinet committee at all. This will ensure any minutes are very vague.

Not to go off topic, but NC is an intergovernmental forum, not a Cabinet, which is what the AAT held. My point was that the Commonwealth Government sought to make NC as non-transparent as possible. An unacceptable state of affairs given the nature of the decisions it is making, with international arrivals caps being just one of many examples.

 

[PineappleSkip]

Yes, the Commonwealth argued unsuccessfully the NC was a Commonwealth cabinet committee. Nice try. But all the big decisions of every Government are made by cabinets in confidence. Making it as ‘not-transparent as possible’ is consistent with that approach.

Andrew Barr from ACT was asked about NC in his presser this morning. Mentioned a three hour meeting and ‘robust debate’, with a majority view that TTIQ is less reliable with large case numbers. I can’t remember if it was referred to as a consensus but I don’t think so.

Sounds like the debate reflects this criticism of the Doherty model in this Australia Institute Research.
Doherty Modelling Assumptions Don’t Adequately Account for Changed TTIQ Capabilities.

cheers skip

 

[ethernet]

Does it seem off that Qantas announces flights before incoming quarantine arrangements are known? Surely flights only start up once the Aussies who need to get home, actually get home.
We already see significant traveler breakthrough numbers, that will probably exceed any number. The Israel reports are firmly pointing that a third booster shot is needed , which actually significantly/hugely cuts asymptomatic spreaders. However the booster only works that way, only if several months later (likely 6-9 months). I note Singapore is still wary - but at least have some transparency.

 

[levelnine]

But all the big decisions of every Government are made by cabinets in confidence.

The premise here is incorrect, but we're going off topic so I'll stop. Happy to continue the conversation via PM.

Does it seem off that Qantas announces flights before incoming quarantine arrangements are known?

What do you mean by this? Qantas is currently assisting with repatriation flights, which are organised in concert with the Commonwealth Government. They know about incoming quarantine arrangements insofar as they fly to and from places as directed by the Government.

If you mean the resumption of regular commercial flights in December, Qantas' CEO said that they are based on working assumptions that the Government thinks are fair assumptions. They don't know all that more than any member of the public does (ie international border restrictions will be gradually relaxed after we hit the 80% vaccination rate & we're scheduled to do that by November/December).

 

[RAM]

Sarcasm alert.

It’s such a great idea to be cooped up on a bus for a 2hr ride with people who may or may not have COVID, so you can get to your cabin style quarantine accommodation to minimise shared airflow. Yep I know most of them also shared your flight for 24hrs as well, but you know those super effective aircraft HEPA filters.

But CV only gets active once it has cleared customs!

Wellcamp can take most international planes (not A380s I believe but may be able to handle 747Fs) and one not-so-reported comment was that the owners had already approached some airlines currently flying services (non-subsidised aka not Q) into Brisbane and they had indicated they'd happily fly into Wellcamp if higher passenger capacity offered.

Wellcamp has been fighting for years to get traffic, other than occasional international freight flights. Well worth doing a search on its cost & time to build.

Really shows up the Australian duopoly construction industry.

Will eagerly await the opening to see if pre-Xmas operation date is achieved.

 

[RAM]

Not to go off topic, but NC is an intergovernmental forum, not a Cabinet, which is what the AAT held. My point was that the Commonwealth Government sought to make NC as non-transparent as possible. An unacceptable state of affairs given the nature of the decisions it is making, with international arrivals caps being just one of many examples.

"Cabinet" at a Federal level is defined by statute. Fed Govt caved after threatening to go to High Court about it.

Does not cover redactions though, nor 'lost documents' due to incorrect filing/storage. Happens all the time these days with 'electronic storage' unfortunately. Even from back-ups (GIPA/FOI I had).

 

[levelnine]

Depressing news that NSW is halving its intake of international arrivals for at least the next month.

That takes the already tiny number of arrivals even lower.

NSW Covid update: health staff redirected from hotel quarantine to stressed hospital system

NSW to halve number of international passengers it will accept as health authorities report 1,164 local Delta cases

www.theguardian.com

 

[Pushka]

Depressing news that NSW is halving its intake of international arrivals for at least the next month.

That takes the already tiny number of arrivals even lower.

NSW Covid update: health staff redirected from hotel quarantine to stressed hospital system

NSW to halve number of international passengers it will accept as health authorities report 1,164 local Delta cases

www.theguardian.com

But then looking at home quarantine for double vacced once 70% and in time for Christmas.

 

[levelnine]

But then looking at home quarantine for double vacced once 70% and in time for Christmas.

So they say. Remember the promise was that every stranded Australian would be home by last Christmas.

 

[Pushka]

So they say. Remember the promise was that every stranded Australian would be home by last Christmas.

Well, without the vaccination that was never going to happen. And I don't think Gladys B was in on that one.

 

[madrooster]

The cancellations have started for NSW's cap reduction down to 750/week.

Here's SQ's changes...

Flights now operating as cargo only:

SQ241 - 09/09, 10/09, 16/09, 17/09, 19/09, 24/09, 25/09
SQ231 - 08/09, 09/09, 10/09, 11/09, 12/09, 13/09, 14/09, 15/09, 17/09, 18/09, 19/09, 20/09, 21/09, 23/09, 25/09, 26/09, 27/09, 28/09
SQ211 - 22/09

Flights still operating with passenger service:

SQ241 - 11/09, 23/09
SQ231 - 16/09, 22/09, 24/09
SQ211 - 08/09, 09/09, 10/09, 11/09, 12/09, 13/09, 14/09, 15/09, 16/09, 17/09, 18/09, 19/09, 20/09, 21/09, 23/09, 24/09, 25/09, 26/09, 27/09, 28/09

 

[dajop]

Depressing news that NSW is halving its intake of international arrivals for at least the next month.

That takes the already tiny number of arrivals even lower.

NSW Covid update: health staff redirected from hotel quarantine to stressed hospital system

NSW to halve number of international passengers it will accept as health authorities report 1,164 local Delta cases

www.theguardian.com

I get the reason for this, the valuable health resources the HQ system is consuming. But I wonder what sort of health advice says that allowing the 5 cases every 2 days to quarantine at home is an unacceptable risk (based on 73 COVID cases in inbound travellers during August) in the context of the 2500 new local cases every 2 days, many undertaking home quarantine? Is it variants they are concerned about? [rhetorical questions]

 

[madrooster]

A sign of how sad the arrivals cap issue is...

Today's QR904 into MEL... I have 3 passengers in Y. There are no other Y pax at all and there's just 8 pax in J.

 

[amclod]

A sign of how sad the arrivals cap issue is...

Today's QR904 into MEL... I have 3 passengers in Y. There are no other Y pax at all and there's just 8 pax in J.

 

[dajop]

A sign of how sad the arrivals cap issue is...

Today's QR904 into MEL... I have 3 passengers in Y. There are no other Y pax at all and there's just 8 pax in J.

Very crowded flight then. I'm not joking. When we flew into PER on Scoot from SIN there was just the 2 of us in ScootPlus and 1 in economy. 3 in total.

About 2 days out, 4 extra seats were allocated in a block, and some of the staff at PER were expecting 7 pax, so maybe someone tested positive and wasn't allowed to make the trip, or they had booked those as backups in case other flights were cancelled.

 

[madrooster]

they had booked those as backups in case other flights were cancelled.

Given TR is non refundable in a lot of cases ... it's not much of a wise backup!

 

[map]

‘Devastating’: Dozens of new flight cancellations leave Australians stranded

With no idea when caps on arrivals will be lifted, Singapore Airlines has been forced to cancel at least one flight a day into Australia over the next three months.

www.smh.com.au

Excerpt:

Prime Minister Scott Morrison has foreshadowed a reopening of borders when vaccination rates hit 80 per cent but the hopes of scores of Australians trying to get home before Christmas have been shattered by a slew of new flight cancellations over the next three months.

Singapore Airlines delivered the bad news to passengers on Monday night as a fresh round of international flights in October to December were called off.

It has been a heartbreaking pattern throughout the coronavirus pandemic due to strict international arrival caps in Australia but the latest cancellations, from regional hub Singapore itself and other destinations, have delivered an additional blow just as the federal government has begun talking up reopening.

With the lack of a firm commitment from government about when caps will be raised or removed, at least one flight into Australia per day over the next three months has been cancelled by the airline.

The flights had been extra services placed in the expectation that a travel bubble between Australia and Singapore would be established towards the end of the year, as had been forecast as likely by Trade, Tourism and Investment Minister Dan Tehan during a visit to Singapore in July.

 

[PineappleSkip]

For some strange reason I got spammed by the Aussie embassy in Abu Dhabi with a heartwarming message from Scomo. Not sure how I was targeted; been a while since I have been an expat.
A message from the Prime Minister to Australian expats #AusInUAE

I do recall a once in a decade night when the Aussie Embassy in KBL invited a truckload of expats and opened the drinks cabinet. Twas the stuff of legends that was . Much more authentic than a spam video.

Cheers skip

 

[madrooster]

SQ is about to load their cancellations for 29/09-30/10 for SYD/MEL/BNE.

** Sydney **

Flights now operating as cargo only:

SQ241 - 29/09, 30/09, 02/10, 06/10, 08/10, 09/10, 13/10, 14/10, 15/10, 16/10, 20/10, 21/10, 27/10, 28/10, 29/10, 30/10

SQ231 - 29/09, 01/10, 03/10, 06/10, 07/10, 09/10, 10/10, 11/10, 15/10, 16/10, 17/10, 18/10, 20/10, 22/10, 23/10, 24/10, 25/10, 29/10

SQ211 - 30/09, 01/10, 02/10, 04/10, 05/10, 07/10, 08/10, 09/10, 12/10, 13/10, 14/10, 16/10, 19/10, 21/10, 22/10, 26/10, 27/10, 28/10, 30/10

Flights still operating with passenger service:

SQ241 - 01/10, 07/10, 22/10, 23/10

SQ231 - 30/09, 02/10, 04/10, 05/10, 08/10, 12/10, 13/10, 14/10, 19/10, 21/10, 26/10, 27/10, 28/10, 30/10

SQ211 - 29/09, 03/10, 06/10, 10/10, 11/10, 15/10, 17/10, 18/10, 20/10, 23/10, 24/10, 25/10, 29/10

** Melbourne **

Flights now operating as cargo only:

SQ237 - 30/09, 01/10, 02/10, 03/10, 05/10, 07/10, 08/10, 09/10, 10/10, 11/10, 12/10, 14/10, 15/10, 16/10, 17/10, 18/10, 19/10, 20/10, 21/10, 22/10, 23/10, 24/10, 25/10, 27/10, 28/10, 29/10, 30/10

Flights still operating with passenger service:

SQ237 - 29/09, 04/10, 06/10, 13/10, 26/10

SQ217 - 29/09, 30/09, 01/10, 02/10, 03/10, 04/10, 05/10, 06/10, 07/10, 08/10, 09/10, 10/10, 11/10, 12/10, 13/10, 14/10, 15/10, 16/10, 17/10, 18/10, 19/10, 20/10, 21/10, 22/10, 23/10, 24/10, 25/10, 26/10, 27/10, 28/10, 29/10, 30/10

** Brisbane **

Flights now operating as cargo only:

SQ255 - 06/10, 12/10, 21/10, 25/10, 30/10

SQ245 - 13/10, 16/10, 29/10

Flights still operating with passenger service:

SQ255 - 29/09, 30/09, 01/10, 02/10, 03/10, 04/10, 05/10, 07/10, 08/10, 09/10, 10/10, 11/10, 13/10, 14/10, 15/10, 16/10, 17/10, 18/10, 19/10, 20/10, 22/10, 23/10, 24/10, 26/10, 27/10, 28/10, 29/10

SQ245 - 29/09, 30/09, 01/10, 02/10, 03/10, 04/10, 05/10, 07/10, 08/10, 09/10, 10/10, 11/10, 12/10, 14/10, 15/10, 17/10, 18/10, 19/10, 20/10, 21/10, 22/10, 23/10, 24/10, 25/10, 26/10, 27/10, 28/10, 30/10