Australia to Reduce Incoming Int. Passenger Capacity from July 2021

[Flying mermaid]

How did you know I was talking about you. I was taking generally so don't be so quick to claim that cap for yourself.

It’s OK - I am just feeling annoyed and argumentative today. While you were talking generally, I definitely seem to fit into the group, as defined by you.

 

[louie-m]

Except that some states don't even keep a record of who is vaccinated. I muted most of the Qld press conference this morning to avoid breaking my TV, but I did catch Steven Miles saying something like "we had 1xx arrivals into quarantine yesterday and we don't even know how many are vaccinated". Maybe try asking?

Cousin who arrived in Sydney this week and is now in quarantine has not been asked whether she is vaccinated. I expect that from Queensland but that is a big fail for NSW. How can the government work out whether vaccinated people in quarantine are safer from breaches of protocol etc if they don't know who they are?

 

[drron]

So I have emailed my local member again and said I will not be voting for him unless there is a genuine plan to open borders,that caps for vaccinated people are increased and the trial of home quarantine for vaccinated people is in Stage 1.

I really can't think of a reason that the trial of home quarantine can not commence in this quarter.
Disgusting decision today.

 

[Ric]

This reduction in arrival caps does not include Trans Tasman arrivals I presume?

 

[bcworld]

This reduction in arrival caps does not include Trans Tasman arrivals I presume?

Correct...there are no caps for the bubble.

 

[AustSerbKor]

I disagree with the comments about the Qld CHO. I believe the CHO suffered a huge shock when presented with the triage list on who would be sent home to die if hospitals became overrun.
As someone that probably would have been on that list, I understand this.
What makes me angry is someone with an Australian passport or residency must be allowed to come to Australia.
We have had this for 18 months now and as the states offered to assume the federal government responsibility of quarantine, they should already have built and be operating Howard Springs like facilities.
#bringthemhome

 

[PineappleSkip]

Already penned mine to Birmingham. I sent him one earlier - all his response was - do you live in South Australia? Hell yeah, in Mark Butlers electorate now!

So I have emailed my local member again and said I will not be voting for him unless there is a genuine plan to open borders,that caps for vaccinated people are increased and the trial of home quarantine for vaccinated people is in Stage 1.

<rant>I emailed my Federal member in January pointing out that as an international FIFO worker I was at increased risk and so was Australia, and that risk could be mitigated by adding this very small group to phase 1B. I didn't get so much as an acknowledgement, and FIFO workers still aren't able to get a jab unless they qualify because of age. The risk is still there.

This week I see Stephen Miles warning about all these FIFO workers who are unvaccinated and pose a risk to Australia. Like, hello, and the reason they are unvaccinated is??? Except his solution was effectively to prevent them going to work.</rant>

cheers skip

 

[dajop]

Didn’t you all know that being vaccinated only makes a difference within Australia? There is some background radiation that neutralises the effect of the vaccine once you cross any of the water surrounding Australia, although I believe for some reason they’ve determined this radiation effect does not happen over the Tasman sea. I’m afraid this effect ruins any protection a vaccine would give to an international FIFO , and also ruins the efficacy of the vaccine for international travellers coming into Australia.

Or so it would seem.

 

[Pushka]

<rant>I emailed my Federal member in January pointing out that as an international FIFO worker I was at increased risk and so was Australia, and that risk could be mitigated by adding this very small group to phase 1B. I didn't get so much as an acknowledgement, and FIFO workers still aren't able to get a jab unless they qualify because of age. The risk is still there.

This week I see Stephen Miles warning about all these FIFO workers who are unvaccinated and pose a risk to Australia. Like, hello, and the reason they are unvaccinated is??? Except his solution was effectively to prevent them going to work.</rant>

cheers skip

Anyone who is approved to travel overseas gets automatic access to vaccinations. And those people should have told you this. But my experience is that Federal Politicians have no idea how their legislation actually operates.

Its in the last paragraph here:

National Cabinet Statement | Prime Minister of Australia

www.pm.gov.au

 

[mviy]

The perverse thing about this cap reduction is that if it’s stated intent of keeping the virus out actually occurs that will just further slow the vaccination rollout.

What’s more with the vulnerable protected with vaccination the spread of a less deadly variant like Delta that hasn’t killed anyone who has caught it in Australia this year could help with reaching herd immunity.

 

[PineappleSkip]

Anyone who is approved to travel overseas gets automatic access to vaccinations. And those people should have told you this. But my experience is that Federal Politicians have no idea how their legislation actually operates.

Its in the last paragraph here:

National Cabinet Statement | Prime Minister of Australia

www.pm.gov.au

You're right! I had a seniors moment and read the wrong paragraph in the DHS blurb! Crow for lunch again today. Available for exemptions granted after 20 May.

Not sure what paragraph you're referring to in the announcement? The announcement that says

National Cabinet agreed to formulate a National Plan... National Cabinet agreed in-principle that the plan consists of the following phases....

I looked for certainty in the flyer and found all the dot points, for every phase, was headed

Measures may include:

So there is agreement there should be a plan, and in principle agreement that there should be four phases. Presumably the real dot points depend on modelling the event horizon...

cheers skip

 

[Pushka]

You're right! I had a seniors moment and read the wrong paragraph in the DHS blurb! Crow for lunch again today. Available for exemptions granted after 20 May.

Not sure what paragraph you're referring to in the announcement? The announcement that says

I looked for certainty in the flyer and found all the dot points, for every phase, was headed

So there is agreement there should be a plan, and in principle agreement that there should be four phases. Presumably the real dot points depend on modelling the event horizon...

cheers skip

That’s weird. I posted the link relevant for a May announcement. Anyway it is statement 3?from memory issued in mid may.

I’ll try again
https://www.pm.gov.au/media/national-cabinet-statement-3

“The Commonwealth will also consider tightening Australian Border Force (ABF) outbound travel restrictions for Australians travelling overseas and continue the restrictions in place in respect of applications for travel to high risk countries. National Cabinet agreed to vaccinate essential outbound Australian travellers with ABF travel exemptions approvals. This includes only people travelling in response to the COVID-19 outbreak including in the Pacific; urgent medical treatment; national interest; critical industries and business; compassionate and compelling grounds; urgent and unavoidable personal business.

 

[levelnine]

In a further twist of the knife, Queensland has increased its hotel quarantine fees. The Queensland Government is really doing everything it can to screw over Australians stranded overseas.

Fees and payment for isolation and quarantine

Fees, payment options and waivers for isolation and for quarantine in government-nominated accommodation in Queensland.

www.qld.gov.au

 

[mviy]

In a further twist of the knife, Queensland has increased its hotel quarantine fees. The Queensland Government is really doing everything it can to screw over Australians stranded overseas.

Fees and payment for isolation and quarantine

Fees, payment options and waivers for isolation and for quarantine in government-nominated accommodation in Queensland.

www.qld.gov.au

Whilst that's disappointing I would pay double or triple that if that's what is needed to let me travel. If the cost of quarantine is the issue preventing higher caps come in I've long said raise the prices for those who have left Australia after a certain date.

 

[dajop]

In a further twist of the knife, Queensland has increased its hotel quarantine fees. The Queensland Government is really doing everything it can to screw over Australians stranded overseas.

Fees and payment for isolation and quarantine

Fees, payment options and waivers for isolation and for quarantine in government-nominated accommodation in Queensland.

www.qld.gov.au

Got to pay for the contracts somehow. I'm sure all these quarantine hotels are contracted for fixed periods, but now the capacity has halved less people coming into pay for probably the same number of rooms.

 

[Flying mermaid]

Got to pay for the contracts somehow. I'm sure all these quarantine hotels are contracted for fixed periods, but now the capacity has halved less people coming into pay for probably the same number of rooms.

Sounds more like they are trying to discourage people from using them

 

[CaptJCool]

There’s 3 logistical issues that have created this diabolical situation

1. We chose only 4 vaccines. UQ fell over, AZ Clotted and Biden banned exports of Pfizer and Moderna still coming. Stephen Duckett Grattan institute explained this well.

2. Number of approved travel exemptions Who after 3 months wish to come back to Oz. This has only added to the returning problem with leakage from hotel quarantine and this leakage (which sees nurses and medical staff infected) with a continued stream of inbound COVID carriers REGULARLY sees allocated medical capacity downsized within each state as medical staff and their workmates are despatched into quarantine. In SA for example the medi-hotel is Tom’s Court and reaches capacity at 34!,!,!
Travel exemptions rise as more Australians apply to fly overseas

the ABS figures were temporary. BITRE provide the usual monthly figures and have for years so there’s the genuinely pre-March 2020 overseas based Aissues who have not yet returned but there’s also system pressure by a squad of former and current politcal figures and the last legs host plus others moving back and forth. Gosh Premier of Qld just must be at the Tokyo Olympics, and then exemptions for family reunion, terminal illness, funerals, weddings, sports events and allegedly conferences (which many of us missed because of state lockdowns) all of these out-ins are displacing pre-March 2020 one way travellers.... several friends friend has lived experience of missing illness and subsequent deaths and more recently rampant Infection from country of birth - heartbreaking for sure, and yea it’s not 1870 nor 1920 where migration was a one way ticket I get that, we intend for better but even the modern world will let us down

3. who would have predicted this episode would still be going? The thread on here for resumption of all international flights has over 8,000 posts and the early estimates showed our worst case scenario as October - Christmas 2020. This unfounded optimism meant specific quarantine was not built and since ships 🛳 natural quarantine facilities no longer ply the oceans no alternative compared to 1918.... Hotels were a “stop gap” measure set up in a hurry. No one in their wildest imagination foresaw this as a “permanent“ quarantine measure.

yes, victims of our own success, but let’s face it, would you rather someone in USA (500k plus deaths) or UK LARGE death numbers be vaccinated or India or Brazil or Peru or Africa or name a 3rd world country with a high death rate or shall we continue to live self-interested lives inside our prosperous bubble. Well unless sacrifice like the Anzacs is merely optional for us.

first class health system never got overwhelmed
predominantly COVID free living
strong inter-governmental financial support. (Try living in India with no Centrelink system)

we are a prosperous and lucky country and this too shall pass...

 

[PineappleSkip]

Number of approved travel exemptions Who after 3 months wish to come back to Oz

Interesting article, thanks , but departures are not returns or visitors. Not all those departing for at least 3 months would wish to return in the short term as the risk recedes in many places elsewhere. The ABS numbers I charted upthread showed returning Australians month by month have not changed significantly since the beginning of 2021, when you leave out bubble returns from NZ.

the ABS figures were temporary.

The ABS has a permanent series about overseas arrivals and departures. The temporary series that ends this month is just provisional estimates, one month early.

Qld were wailing that they were full, with over 3,000 in Hotels. Their cap is about 1100, meaning nearly 1/3 of the quarantinees would be travellers from interstate. Suspect this has a lot to do with their crisis.

As for the vast number of repeat returnees...

McGowan claimed that a “large group of people” have gone overseas on multiple occasions, increasing the risk of Covid-19 spread on their return and displacing returning Australians.

He cited the fact that of the 51,000 people who had been through hotel quarantine in Perth, 1,308 had been through twice, 506 people had been through three times, and 82 had been through four times.

So 3.7% of returnees are repeats. Shocking, not. The crisis was confected.

Cheers skip

PS Just looking at the National Cabinet 'cut the caps' communique again and there is the possibility of light at the end of the tunnel, and the tunnel may not be that long.

National Cabinet agreed to temporarily reduce the current international passenger arrival caps by 50 per cent ... These arrangements will:

• commence by 12.01am Wednesday 14 July and remain in place until 31 August; and
• be subject to a review by National Cabinet before the end of August and on a regular basis throughout the remainder of 2021.

So the halving is definite for six weeks only, leaving open the possibility of at least some increase after...

 

[mviy]

So the halving is definite for six weeks only, leaving open the possibility of at least some increase after...

I would like to be hopeful, however the 3 month travel ban keeps on getting extended every time they reassess it. When decisions are made that are illogical it’s hard to predict when they may be reversed.

The Guardian has an article on the reduction:

International airlines may be forced to suspend flights to Australia after arrival cap halved

Industry says any suggestion by Coalition government that airlines are price gouging is ‘insulting and bizarre’

www.theguardian.com

 

[Flying mermaid]

Interesting article, thanks , but departures are not returns or visitors. Not all those departing for at least 3 months would wish to return in the short term as the risk recedes in many places elsewhere. The ABS numbers I charted upthread showed returning Australians month by month have not changed significantly since the beginning of 2021, when you leave out bubble returns from NZ.

The ABS has a permanent series about overseas arrivals and departures. The temporary series that ends this month is just provisional estimates, one month early.

Qld were wailing that they were full, with over 3,000 in Hotels. Their cap is about 1100, meaning nearly 1/3 of the quarantinees would be travellers from interstate. Suspect this has a lot to do with their crisis.

As for the vast number of repeat returnees...

So 3.7% of returnees are repeats. Shocking, not. The crisis was confected.

Cheers skip

PS Just looking at the National Cabinet 'cut the caps' communique again and there is the possibility of light at the end of the tunnel, and the tunnel may not be that long.

So the halving is definite for six weeks only, leaving open the possibility of at least some increase after...

I wouldn’t hold my breath - everything I have heard from pollies talking is that it is until we move to phase 2, which is likely the end of the year. The only thing that might make a difference is the home quarantine trial - that could lead to bigger caps for vaccinated people, although goodness knows how long that will take to start let along assess.

I feel sorry for the airlines - business is hard enough for them without this ongoing stupidity. Thanks Qld, WA and Vic .