Australian Housing Affordability Discussion

[medhead]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

Of course we old stagers faced some challenges too. Yes, I was paying a mortgage during the period of 16%-17% mortgage rates!

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And then we went through the 'recession we had to have' (1990/91). Now, if we are talking outrageous comments from Treasurers, this from one PJK may be worth a look-in:

And that was the last recession in Australia. 24 years ago. The narrative is very easy to understand, that recession finally killed the economic mess created in the 1970s. But I guess it is much more convenient to make up a little story on one little event in isolation. As a statement to express that this recession will kill stagflation and with give us continuous growth - It's a pretty bloody good one. It isn't even in the same universe as telling people with very good jobs that they don't deserve to be able to buy a house in Sydney.

 

[JessicaTam]

[mod hat]
This thread has been established to discuss housing affordability.

Any further political 'baiting' posts have and will be deleted.
[/mod hat]

 

[whatmeworry]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

Housing affordability: A nurse responds to Joe Hockey’s comments

Lots of people with good jobs cant afford a home.

I would say lots of people with jobs critical to society can't afford a home.

 

[eastwest101]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

From NoNews:

SYDNEY IN 1995:Median weekly household income before tax according to 1996 Census: $700-$999
Median house price according to a university report: $196,750
Time it would take to save a 20 per cent deposit ($39,350) based on saving 30 per cent of an income of $700 ($210 a week): 3.6 years
SYDNEY IN 2015:
Median weekly household income before tax according to 2011 Census: $1447
Median house price in March according to Domain: $914,056
Time it would take to save a 20 per cent deposit ($182,811) based on saving 30 per cent of income ($434 a week): 8.1 years

A bit of apples and oranges there. Why use the median household income from 2011 to compare median house prices for 2015? And where exactly did that $914K figure come from? Asking prices or settlement prices? And why even use median asking prices? How skewed are median prices when the "high end" and exclusive parts of the property market are booming but the medium or lower end are possibly not?

That's not to say that property prices aren't necessarily an issue. Nearly every thread/conversation or even backyard BBQ discussing anything to do with the economy (whether its politics/interest rates/taxation/exchange rates or infrastructure) eventually ends up being a topic/thread about Sydney house prices - there must be a reason for that.

 

[amaroo]

Housing Affordability Discussion

I would say lots of people with jobs critical to society can't afford a home.

Rubbish! ..

My cleaner, pool man, mower and gardener all have homes

 

[RooFlyer]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

Only please. Inflation also meant that the value of your property was rapid increasing at the same time. Not to mention interest rates were 17% for a blink of an eye. Perhaps it would have been better to do nothing about stagflation?

Lets compare the rates:



(And who remembers the time of 12% - 15% inflation of the early '70s, which Margaret thought was just a lot of hoo-ha - Ah, I remember that classic now. )

A house has value only if there is a buyer. Not many buy at 16-17% mortgage rates (and which lasted a couple of years ... AKA 'a blink of an eye' ) which was followed by "the recession we had to have", where so many lost their jobs ... lower interest rates (5% - 12%) are not much use to some-one who has lost their job and their house, due to the recession.

 

[OATEK]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

Only please. Inflation also meant that the value of your property was rapid increasing at the same time. Not to mention interest rates were 17% for a blink of an eye. Perhaps it would have been better to do nothing about stagflation?

? ? What I was trying to say was that at 17% interest it was an enormous struggle to pay for our house. Not sure what you are trying to say.

 

[Warks]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

A million dollar mortgage on virtually zero interest would still take a heap of cash ($2777 a month at 0%) to pay off even over 30 years. The principle still has to be paid back unless it's "interest only" - not sure what happens at the end of one of those loans - bank gets the house?

 

[burmans]

I'm still honestly wondering what the fuss is about. Isn't what the Treasurer said simply true? if you want to buy a house [and the topic was Sydney housing] you DO need a good job. Unless you have the cash in hand, no financial institution will lend you the required funds without evidence you can service the loan. Like a good paying job.

Someone pls tell me what is actually problematical with what the quote says. Just straight up and down - what's incorrect?

No one ever said it was incorrect, they said it showed Joe doesn't really understand the issue when the question was about house affordability. And his response was essentially not if you have a good job. Yes, it is correct that we need a good job but Sydney does need cleaners, nurses, teachers, policemen too!

 

[blackcat20]

No one ever said it was incorrect, they said it showed Joe doesn't really understand the issue when the question was about house affordability. And his response was essentially not if you have a good job. Yes, it is correct that we need a good job but Sydney does need cleaners, nurses, teachers, policemen too!

It seems Hockey thinks the average good job pays $300k. Would love to know where I can get one of those...

 

[RooFlyer]

No one ever said it was incorrect, they said it showed Joe doesn't really understand the issue when the question was about house affordability. And his response was essentially not if you have a good job. Yes, it is correct that we need a good job but Sydney does need cleaners, nurses, teachers, policemen too!

Oh, I think at least some-one has said its incorrect . With respect, surely the last bit of your post is a non sequitur? Hockey didn't say that people who rent, or folk who couldn't get a 'well paying' (whatever that means) job were inferior, less capable, less essential or even less nice. When asked about the difficulty of entering the home ownership market ... lets again go to the actual, rather than confected or imagined or implied words:

The starting point for a first-home buyer is to get a good job that pays good money. ...

And, truly sorry, I still don't see what the fuss is about, other than a demonstration I believe that certain people in society are just hell bent on taking offence, no matter what is said.

 

[RooFlyer]

It seems Hockey thinks the average good job pays $300k. Would love to know where I can get one of those...

C'mon. Where did he say or imply that? If he's said such an awful thing, why not let the words speak for themselves, rather than imply other thoughts or 'seemings' of his which don't exist?

Watch the whole horror again

BTW: First home buyers in the past 5 years, still under 35 and their jobs in my wider family:

Vodafone call centre team leader (single)
Public Servant (team leader level) married to a photographer - Brisbane suburbs
School teacher married to stay-at-home mum - Inner Brisbane
Prison guard married to manufacturing shift worker.
Teacher married to teacher in western Sydney

Can we please get off the myth that non professionals or people with 'ordinary' jobs can't get into the housing market? Yes I know that Sydney and parts of Melbourne are special cases, but a lot of the posts above are simply about not being able to buy a house (in general). Its a rotten situation, but don't blame the Treasurer for stating a simple fact : that to buy a house (in Sydney) you need a good paying job (whatever his definition of good is).

 

[TomVexille]

Oh, I think at least some-one has said its incorrect . With respect, surely the last bit of your post is a non sequitur? Hockey didn't say that people who rent, or folk who couldn't get a 'well paying' (whatever that means) job were inferior, less capable, less essential or even less nice. When asked about the difficulty of entering the home ownership market ... lets again go to the actual, rather than confected or imagined or implied words:



And, truly sorry, I still don't see what the fuss is about, other than a demonstration I believe that certain people in society are just hell bent on taking offence, no matter what is said.

He never said any of those things. But burmans is correct. Mr. Hockey has no idea what it's like to be in the lower half of the socio-economic scale. And his comments on more than one occasion show that he has no idea how a majority of Australia actually live.

 

[Pushka]

Housing Affordability Discussion

Our first home had three tiny bedrooms. No carpet. Newspaper for curtains. Second hand bed. Interest rates of 17%. Homes these days have too much "infrastructure" or "stuff" to be affordable for first home buyers.

And we were both University graduates in appropriate jobs.

 

[anat0l]

He never said any of those things. But burmans is correct. Mr. Hockey has no idea what it's like to be in the lower half of the socio-economic scale. And his comments on more than one occasion show that he has no idea how a majority of Australia actually live.

He may well have no idea; I think the more accurate description is that he takes them for granted.

That said, it seems that when a right government is in power, a survivalist approach is recommended. When a left government is in power, an exploitative approach is recommended.

 

[RooFlyer]

He never said any of those things. But burmans is correct. Mr. Hockey has no idea what it's like to be in the lower half of the socio-economic scale. And his comments on more than one occasion show that he has no idea how a majority of Australia actually live.

Now that I can come to terms with, although I think 'no idea' is a bit harsh. He gets it rammed down his throat from time to time (like now), but you are right - being told is nothing like being stuck in that environment with little way out.

 

[Alanslegal]

Poor people apparently don't drive very far according to Mr Hockey. Glad I live in a place where I can walk to work, shops, and fun. That said I am poor because I still haven't bought the penthouse in my strata block but when they cost as much as houses, I'll just make do with my current 2 bedder.

 

[NM]

I don't know why the concept of median house price is brought up when discussing first home buying. There is no way I could have afforded a house in the "median" price bracket when I bought my first home. It was not until my third home that I got close to the median market price. My first home was probably more like 25% of the median price at the time, because that was all I could afford. 25 years later I can afford to purchase in the median price range.

 

[drron]

When interest rates and inflation was high in the 70s the rise in house prices was a mere blink and over the next 10 years went down-

 

[burmans]

And, truly sorry, I still don't see what the fuss is about.

And therein lies the problem, while some will try and deny it we have a situation where a significant number of Sydney Siders can't afford to buy a house in their home town. Those who produce examples of people who can, yes indeed I have a cousin who at 30 has bought a house with a 900k mortgage. Frankly I think she is stupid (and that even though she has very good job).

The evidence is incontrovertible, Sydney is one of the most expensive places in the world to buy a house. That's good for those who already have a house (which includes me), it's not good for those who don't which include my children.