Australian Housing Affordability Discussion

[medhead]

Apparently some examples are being given of jobs that can afford a house. That doesn't actually prove a thing. They're the ones with the good jobs that pay good money. Woopity do. Their are plenty of people with good jobs that don't pay the good money to buy a house in Sydney. We don't even need to go anywhere near unemployed to find those people.

I don't know why the concept of median house price is brought up when discussing first home buying. There is no way I could have afforded a house in the "median" price bracket when I bought my first home. It was not until my third home that I got close to the median market price. My first home was probably more like 25% of the median price at the time, because that was all I could afford. 25 years later I can afford to purchase in the median price range.

It is a measure. Apparently the appropriate one for housing. That seems reasonable compared to using an average. But to the crux of your post, do you believe the range of house prices has expanded so that the bottom is fixed and the top is much much greater than when you purchased? Or is it possible that the bottom and top of the range have also experienced similar increases?

 

[UP4014]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

Still I suppose he has a point, it would've been so much easier if I just got a good job that pays good money instead of wasting 10 years at university getting an education followed by 16 years building a career.

Agree, it took me until I was in my 40s to break the $100K level.

I live in Sydney and have a mortgage, I have calculated I will have my debts paid 5 years after I'm dead!

Matt

 

[medhead]

Housing Affordability Discussion

Agree, it took me until I was in my 40s to break the $100K level.

I live in Sydney and have a mortgage, I have calculated I will have my debts paid 5 years after I'm dead!

Matt

39 for me, by 1.5 months.

I think it's telling that even with that good job I'd rather fly into sydney from Adelaide that play the outer west property/commuting game.

 

[UP4014]

39 for me, by 1.5 months.

I think it's telling that even with that good job I'd rather fly into sydney from Adelaide that play the outer west property/commuting game.

What I think is amazing is how does a bloke who say works in a warehouse in western Sydney and lives in Blacktown driving a forklift, his wife and two kids survive in Sydney. He still has a job that needs to be done and I want him to load the Woollies delivery truck, I'm impressed with those people.

Matt

 

[medhead]

Housing Affordability Discussion

What I think is amazing is how does a bloke who say works in a warehouse in western Sydney and lives in Blacktown driving a forklift, his wife and two kids survive in Sydney. He still has a job that needs to be done and I want him to load the Woollies delivery truck, I'm impressed with those people.

Matt

Agreed. Have 2 mates from school living in the ryde area, now, who have had very different experiences and pathways. One of them has moved from black town in the last 12 months and has worked very hard. Trouble his work doesn't seem to be well valued.

 

[yohy?!]

Housing Affordability Discussion

Of course we old stagers faced some challenges too. Yes, I was paying a mortgage during the period of 16%-17% mortgage rates!

View attachment 50478

And then we went through the 'recession we had to have' (1990/91). Now, if we are talking outrageous comments from Treasurers, this from one PJK may be worth a look-in:

A timely quote, I can see that being repurposed in Sydney when rates normalise to:

"the correction we had to have"

 

[burmans]

A timely quote, I can see that being repurposed in Sydney when rates normalise to:

"the correction we had to have"

Reversion to the mean. Yes when interest rates rise it's going to be hard for some and yet we know it's going to happen. It's the wilful blindness to this I find difficult to comprehend, let's pretend it's not a problem in the hope it will go away. Of course it won't and we also know the market will indeed win out. The real question in my mind is not whether this bubble will eventually burst, it's more of a question of whether it will do so in a controlled manner or an uncontrolled manner, unfortunately you chances of controlling a situation you refuse to admit exists are minimal.

 

[mrs.dr.ron]

So the Median house price in Sydney is now $929,842 meaning 50% of houses are below thatfigure.
For Units the median price is $615,547.
So this talk of $1 million is not really accurate.
House prices: Median Australian house price rises to $660,000

 

[drron]

That was me .

 

[RooFlyer]

Apparently some examples are being given of jobs that can afford a house. That doesn't actually prove a thing. They're the ones with the good jobs that pay good money. Woopity do. <snip>

Are there? I'd be interested in where that's been posted because its exactly my experience. 'Ordinary' young Aussies with jobs teaching, in prisons (working ), photographer .. all in their own houses in Brisbane, Sydney and Hobart (with a mortgage of course) under 35 and for the most part, raising young families. Personally, I wouldn't call what they are earning 'good money', but its enough for them to get a start and of course their family is much more important than the house.

I rather think that means a lot.

Let me give people some advice. The starting point for owning a house is to get a good job that would allow you to save, then allow you to service the bank debt.

<snip> Their are plenty of people with good jobs that don't pay the good money to buy a house in Sydney. We don't even need to go anywhere near unemployed to find those people. ?

I'm disappointed with the mention (again) of Sydney. Personally I couldn't care a rat's behind about Sydney. If Sydney-siders are so unhappy with their lot, they should move out. That's what I did in 2004 - I was fed up with the costs, the corruption and the traffic jams in Sydney so I moved south and started my own business here in Tasmania. The house I bought on the outskirts of Hobart cost IIRC $180,000 ; the rest of my savings went on establishing the business.

 

[RooFlyer]

And therein lies the problem, while some will try and deny it we have a situation where a significant number of Sydney Siders can't afford to buy a house in their home town. Those who produce examples of people who can, yes indeed I have a cousin who at 30 has bought a house with a 900k mortgage. Frankly I think she is stupid (and that even though she has very good job).

The evidence is incontrovertible, Sydney is one of the most expensive places in the world to buy a house. That's good for those who already have a house (which includes me), it's not good for those who don't which include my children.

As per post above. My solution to all those unhappy people who can't afford Sydney is to LEAVE IT. And I'm not sure about the 'home town'. Sure many in that category, but we know its the magnet for overseas housing investors and spivs in general and this I believe contributes significantly to the over-inflated housing market in Sydney.

I hope the Reserve Bank sets its policies for the good of Australia, not just for the self absorbed (for the most part) Sydney bubble. Let Point Piper burn.

 

[N860CR]

The biggest issue that came from the treasurers statement was the implication that everyone should be able to go and get a good job and buy a house in Sydney.

The simple fact of the matter is that such a statement, while technically correct, is completely out of touch with reality.

I live in a two income no child relationship. One an intl airline pilot, the other in an entry level medical role. I consider both to be "good jobs". We own 50% of the Sydney apartment and have an investment in Queensland. If we were to sell the Sydney apartment, I'd estimate about 500k in available cash.

I've been attending auctions in southern Sydney for the last few weeks (kogarah, rockdale etc). By the time stamp duty and other associated fees are calculated, we would need a $1M loan to afford a basic, unrenovated single level home on an average block.

I'm sorry, but any treasurer who thinks that such goals are achievable for every member of the community clearly has no understanding of the individuals they represent and have no place in public office.

I feel fortunate that we are relatively happy in our apartment... Because there's limited options to move from it in the foreseeable future!

 

[burmans]

Housing Affordability Discussion

As per post above. My solution to all those unhappy people who can't afford Sydney is to LEAVE IT. And I'm not sure about the 'home town'. Sure many in that category, but we know its the magnet for overseas housing investors and spivs in general and this I believe contributes significantly to the over-inflated housing market in Sydney.

I hope the Reserve Bank sets its policies for the good of Australia, not just for the self absorbed (for the most part) Sydney bubble. Let Point Piper burn.

Yeah we get you don't care, what many would suggest is that all that this shows is that you aren't very caring about others. Now you are perfectly entitled to this as an opinion but as a Treasurer it's generally expected you do give a cough about the public.

 

[whatmeworry]

Rubbish! ..

My cleaner, pool man, mower and gardener all have homes

I was implying Police, Firefighters, Nurses etc can't live near the places they serve. <redacted>

 

[straitman]

Yeah we get you don't care, what many would suggest is that all that this shows is that you aren't very caring about others. Now you are perfectly entitled to this as an opinion but as a Treasurer it's generally expected you do give a cough about the public.

NO.

It simply suggests that the 82.5% of the population that does not live in Sydney is also important.

 

[medhead]

Housing Affordability Discussion

NO.

It simply suggests that the 82.5% of the population that does not live in Sydney is also important.

Still this thread has been created based on a comment about Sydney, not the rest of Australia. Some may not give a rats about sydney but the fact remains the treasurer was talking about Sydney, not Tasmania. Little stories about Tasmania are all very interesting, but they're also mostly irrelevant.

 

[medhead]

Are there? I'd be interested in where that's been posted because its exactly my experience. 'Ordinary' young Aussies with jobs teaching, in prisons (working ), photographer .. all in their own houses in Brisbane, Sydney and Hobart (with a mortgage of course) under 35 and for the most part, raising young families. Personally, I wouldn't call what they are earning 'good money', but its enough for them to get a start and of course their family is much more important than the house.

I rather think that means a lot.

Let me give people some advice. The starting point for owning a house is to get a good job that would allow you to save, then allow you to service the bank debt.



I'm disappointed with the mention (again) of Sydney. Personally I couldn't care a rat's behind about Sydney. If Sydney-siders are so unhappy with their lot, they should move out. That's what I did in 2004 - I was fed up with the costs, the corruption and the traffic jams in Sydney so I moved south and started my own business here in Tasmania. The house I bought on the outskirts of Hobart cost IIRC $180,000 ; the rest of my savings went on establishing the business.

As above, the treasurer was talking about Sydney. Don't like it, go whinge to him.

Trouble with your advice is there are plenty who have a good job and can't get that house in Sydney. Not to mention the treasurer's advice for buying in Sydney was a good job that pays good money. The number have been presented, the challenge the validity of your advice. There is nothing more to say, certainly no point in repeating your opinion.

 

[whatmeworry]

Good article about the impending housing crash.

So bubble mania has finally hit the mainstream. The housing bubble question has landed squarely at the feet of the Prime Minister and his treasurer, and only 10 to 15 years late… What a relief it is then to hear our fearless leaders assure us that there is no bubble, endless house price rises are universally a good thing, and that only poor people try to live in houses they can’t afford.

Yet despite their best efforts, Hockey and Abbott cannot pull the veil back down over the hideous monster that is Australia’s 16 year long housing bubble. That veil has now been permanently lifted. The cat is out of the bag and roaming the remorseless realms of the internet meme, destined to immortalise 2015 as the year Australia woke up to the giant private debt and housing parasite leeching the country of prosperity, equality and egalitarianism. Here I was thinking that I enjoyed a monopoly on being a young person who understood that Australia enjoys the worst land/housing/mortgage bubble in our short history (a history with no less than 5 long forgotten housing bubbles that all ended in tears), and is on a collision course with economic and financial disaster.

The housing crash we had to have: A Gen Y perspective on the bubble - MacroBusiness

 

[cove]

Sure I read Macro Business.
If you want to get started you could buy a bit smaller than you would like and then instal Murphy beds for more living space during the day. Having a pull down bed allows you to use the space twice in a day so your bank debt does not feel like a run away train. We use sofa beds and a brother has a Murphy bed in London.
You can also share your place to help with the mortgage payment and folks in Manhattan and London have had to do this for quite a few years.
Just because your baby boomer parents seem to have it all does not mean you should try to enter the real estate housing market at their level.
It will take a full on recession for Sydney real estate to drop and you could not say that is impossible but we had a beauty in 1991/92.

 

[RooFlyer]

Housing Affordability Discussion

Yeah we get you don't care, what many would suggest is that all that this shows is that you aren't very caring about others. Now you are perfectly entitled to this as an opinion but as a Treasurer it's generally expected you do give a cough about the public.

Disappointing; more reversion to implied obscenities. See my comment above about that.

I care very much - enough to give the advice people don't want to hear. If you are miserable where you live, can't get ahead, can't realise a dream , move somewhere else.

In other posts, feelings of the Treasurer are again implied ( uncaring etc) then criticised. Criticisms fine, but base it on what he said, not on what you ( I mean a generic you throughout here) think he might say or feel. That's just political barracking.

On the other hand, maybe I might imply all sorts of outrageous feelings to, oh I don't know ... Bill Shorten? ... About housing affordability and then rip into him as the ultimate, uncaring, unfeeling villain.

Any chance this thread can revert to facts ( and opinions on them) rather than stuff like "the Treasurer obviously thinks .... "?