Australian Reports of the Virus Spread

[lovetravellingoz]

Surely the issue with remoteness is well addressed by regional hospitals and if needed RFDS. People residing in remote areas get sick too yet there’s (obviously) no thought of moving everyone to CBD and metro areas. Not CI remote though

I think that "remote" is really a non-issue now as the provision and planning of dedicated quarantine facilities has moved on.

The "remote" initially came about as people were thinking of why not use facilities with separate cabins that were currently not used. ie Mining Camps.

A purpose built separate cabin facility was then proposed by a Wagners who owned their own airport, and the abutting land. But that did not address the medical and full staffing issues of the Government who need to provide services for any facility.

Hence in Vic the two purpose built site alternatives both have ready access to a large population to work there as well as hospitals.

The critical point however is that the facility be designed to control aerosol transmission. When talking hundreds, or even thousands of people, the cheapest way to do this is separate cabins as it removes HVAC completely and it also reduces the number of times that staff interact or need to be near the quarantined person (so reduced transmission risk).

You can do, and they do do it, in hospitals (and indeed my daughter works in such an infectious diseases ward) or other larger buildings, but the cost of doing so is dramatically higher due to specialised, HVAC, airlocks etc. Plus it means that the staff are more at risk as you need to have more interaction.

Separate cabins do not have to be in remote locations. You just need land that is either vacant, or can be repurposed. such sites can always be found, though NIMBY pressure may make it not politically palatable.


NSW has announced quarantine in specifically approved student accommodation for the pilot program (250 international students per fortnight). So it will be interesting to see what form that takes, and where it is located. They may however require all students to have been vaccinated though, and if so that would greatly reduce risk. They are also going to triage on arrival, which implies that any positive cases will go to a different facility., rather than the student facility.

 

[Lynda2475]

NSW has announced quarantine in specifically approved student accommodation for the pilot program (250 international students per fortnight). So it will be interesting to see what form that takes, and where it is located.

It will be in the newly built student accommodation, not a purpose built for quarantine. I already posted the link to the proposed site and its in a high-rise in Redfern - nothing like cabin style, definitely shared HVAC.

There is a lot of empty (some brand new like the proposed site) student accommodation in Sydney (and I suspect other capitals) at the moment.

 

[RooFlyer]

In respect of 'cabins' - and the sometimes mentioning of mining-type camps, I'd like to see the reaction of anyone going into quarantine in a 'mining style' camp! The 'dongas' are usually very small and very basic. Shared meal halls and exercise facilities. Howard Springs was built as a first class exception, but still built as a mining camp, not a quarantine facility.

What you'd be looking at for a purpose-built 'camp' for quarantine would be a 4 or 5 star cabin-resort style thing, central kitchen, room service on demand etc. If you are going to allow people a deck or similar for outside air and exercise, then you'll have to enclose them in a high fence to stop the 'wanderers'.

Not impossible, but I think a far cry in elaborateness beyond what I think people are imagining.

 

[RooFlyer]

There is a lot of empty (some brand new like the proposed site) student accommodation in Sydney (and I suspect other capitals) at the moment.

Yeah, in 2018-19, the University of Tasmania bought a couple of motels in Hobart finished a new accommodation block about 2 years ago and is just putting the finishing touches on another new accommodation tower (400 rooms). I'd say they were probably 'long' on accommodation!

 

[nutwood]

In respect of 'cabins' - and the sometimes mentioning of mining-type camps, I'd like to see the reaction of anyone going into quarantine in a 'mining style' camp! The 'dongas' are usually very small and very basic. Shared meal halls and exercise facilities. Howard Springs was built as a first class exception, but still built as a mining amp, not a quarantine facility.

What you'd be looking at for a purpose-built 'camp' for quarantine would be a 4 or 5 star cabin-resort style thing, central kitchen, room service on demand etc. If you are going to allow people a deck or similar for outside air and exercise, then you'll have to enclose them in a high fence to stop the 'wanderers'.

Not impossible, but I think a far cry in elaborateness beyond what I think people are imagining.

I have to agree with you re donga's in their native state but I don't think it would be too hard to utilise the concept and the stock of surplus mining camps to create something suitable. There's plenty of imaginative people out there who used to solving this sort of problem. Unfortunately, not many in Government.

 

[Pushka]

Separate cabins do not have to be in remote locations. You just need land that is either vacant, or can be repurposed. such sites can always be found, though NIMBY pressure may make it not politically palatable.

This is more what I am referring to when discussing ‘remote’ although I did make reference to RFDS and derailed myself. Quarantine doesn’t have to be in the hotel style accommodation it currently is being done in but it can still have close access to major hospital hubs. My nephew stayed in such a cabin when home quarantine was allowable pre April 2019 and he didn’t want to infect his young kids. It was very basic and rustic. It had a verandah where the family would leave food. He had fresh air etc. He enjoyed it. He then later had to do 2 stints in hotel quarantine which he found extremely difficult. If comparing rustic with being stuck in a hotel room for 2 weeks I’d sure go rustic.

 

[dajop]

One thing that would be nice to have as an option in any quarantine is self-catering! So you are not reliant on meals coming to you at specific times, that may or may not to be your liking and may or may not be warm. It's not as if you don't have plenty of time on your hands. Should be cheaper too.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Vic Presser.

Testing at the townhouse complex has now found 2 more cases. So the epidemiological work by the contact tracing team has led to identifying these two cases.

A pop up testing station was also set up at the complex.

From the ABC

There have been another two cases in the Southbank apartment complex today, bringing the cluster total to four.​

​

All residents inside the complex are in isolation. ​

​

The two cases will be included in tomorrow’s figures. ​

​

Martin Foley says about 200 people from the complex have been tested so far.​

 

[lovetravellingoz]

One thing that would be nice to have as an option in any quarantine is self-catering! So you are not reliant on meals coming to you at specific times, that may or may not to be your liking and may or may not be warm. It's not as if you don't have plenty of time on your hands. Should be cheaper too.

Not just nice, but safer for all. The few interactions, the lower the risk.

Ideally people should arrive in a fully stocked cabin with all the food, bedding, towels, toiletries etc they need for a two week stay. Or at most say a one week to up.

 

[Lynda2475]

Self catering should be a bonus not expected. A fridge and microwave, toaster for snacks is great, but not everyone wants to have to cook.

If paying for HQ, there ought to be a facility to order Uber Eats (or equivalent) to get a decent standard of food when hungry. Staff can leave the delivery at the door/porch. Or offer meal plans where you can specify the time of day you want your meals delivered.

 

[dajop]

Self catering should be a bonus not expected. A fridge and microwave, toaster for snacks is great, but not everyone wants to have to cook.

If paying for HQ, there ought to be a facility to order Uber Eats (or equivalent) to get a decent standard of food when hungry. Staff can leave the delivery at the door/porch. Or offer meal plans where you can specify the time of day you want your meals delivered.

If building dedicated quarantine facilities, self catering facilities should be available in each room. I don't necessarily agree with fully stocked kitchen, but when you arrive but you should be able to opt out of catering and have supplies brought in (probably from Day 2 onwards), Shouldn't be difficult to organise

Whilst "not everyone wants to have to cook", not everyone wants to have to pay $1000 for a menu that someone else has chosen for you either. As there's heaps of time in HQ, cooking would be an absolute joy for many I am sure, not the chore it can be at home.

UberEats is not currently an option for somewhere like Avalon airport.

 

[TomVexille]

In respect of 'cabins' - and the sometimes mentioning of mining-type camps, I'd like to see the reaction of anyone going into quarantine in a 'mining style' camp! The 'dongas' are usually very small and very basic. Shared meal halls and exercise facilities. Howard Springs was built as a first class exception, but still built as a mining camp, not a quarantine facility.

What you'd be looking at for a purpose-built 'camp' for quarantine would be a 4 or 5 star cabin-resort style thing, central kitchen, room service on demand etc. If you are going to allow people a deck or similar for outside air and exercise, then you'll have to enclose them in a high fence to stop the 'wanderers'.

Not impossible, but I think a far cry in elaborateness beyond what I think people are imagining.

I can imagine the outcry when people get shoved into a 3x3 room (including your bathroom) with a single bed. Would make the worst quarantine hotel look 5*

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Whilst "not everyone wants to have to cook", not everyone wants to have to pay $1000 for a menu that someone else has chosen for you either. As there's heaps of time in HQ, cooking would be an absolute joy for many I am sure, not the chore it can be at home.

UberEats is not currently an option for somewhere like Avalon airport.

Plus not everyone wants to catch Covid 19 either.

The more people that come into contact/proximity with those in quarantine, the greater the transmission risk. So if you minimise those interactions, you will also minimise risk.

So hence why I said self-catering would be the ideal option. Not everyone can cook though, but most people can. But to encourage it you might have a lower price for self-catering quarantine, than for fully-catered quarantine.

Uber Eats etc will still have to be delivered to the facility and then to the cabin. And all that extra packaging may result in more rubbish collections per cabin as well.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Vic Presser.

Testing at the townhouse complex has now found 2 more cases. So the epidemiological work by the contact tracing team has led to identifying these two cases.

A pop up testing station was also set up at the complex.

From the ABC

There have been another two cases in the Southbank apartment complex today, bringing the cluster total to four.​

​

All residents inside the complex are in isolation. ​

​

The two cases will be included in tomorrow’s figures. ​

​

Martin Foley says about 200 people from the complex have been tested so far.​

Plus:

“One of the positive cases is a very young infant and they are remaining with their mother in one of the apartments,” Victoria’s COVID-19 commander Jeroen Weimar says.

 

[suze2000]

What you'd be looking at for a purpose-built 'camp' for quarantine would be a 4 or 5 star cabin-resort style thing, central kitchen, room service on demand etc. If you are going to allow people a deck or similar for outside air and exercise, then you'll have to enclose them in a high fence to stop the 'wanderers'.

Not impossible, but I think a far cry in elaborateness beyond what I think people are imagining.

What you are talking about is far and away better than what I am currently living with in HQ! There's no room service at all, unless you want a chocolate bar or crisps. There's no microwave, or freezer, or toaster. If I had those things I could have self-catered with the help of deliveries. And I wouldn't want to share a kitchen with fellow detainees - no way, so the cabin would have to have enough space for that.

But actually having regular meals delivered takes a lot of the thinking and stress out of the experience, and there's enough fruit and veg in the deliveries to cover proper nutrition requirements. I have a huge stockpile of "spare" food as well after 10 days now. I've started throwing it out now as it's clear I'm not going to need it.

Fresh air is the thing I feel I'm lacking the most here, and I would swap a fair bit of the creature comforts to have access to that, and to be able to see another human face, even if you have to stay well apart from them.

 

[Lynda2475]

“One of the positive cases is a very young infant and they are remaining with their mother in one of the apartments,” Victoria’s COVID-19 commander Jeroen Weimar says.

Surely given there has been spread within the complex, it would make more sense to move mother and child into HQ.

 

[dajop]

Fresh air is the thing I feel I'm lacking the most here,

It's funny, the lack of fresh air was the thing that bothered me the least in my two HQ stints. But it's a matter of perspective.

I am used to not having "fresh" air most of the time, because living almost on the equator (in the area known as "the doldrums"), whilst there occasionally might be a nice fresh breeze, most of the time the air is dank, heavy and carries the smells of all the cooking going on around you (OK the last bit is an exaggeration, but I do get that when I open my apartment window) Fresh air comes in nice well air conditioned buildings!

 

[pagingjoan]

What you are talking about is far and away better than what I am currently living with in HQ! There's no room service at all, unless you want a chocolate bar or crisps. There's no microwave, or freezer, or toaster. If I had those things I could have self-catered with the help of deliveries. And I wouldn't want to share a kitchen with fellow detainees - no way, so the cabin would have to have enough space for that.

But actually having regular meals delivered takes a lot of the thinking and stress out of the experience, and there's enough fruit and veg in the deliveries to cover proper nutrition requirements. I have a huge stockpile of "spare" food as well after 10 days now. I've started throwing it out now as it's clear I'm not going to need it.

Fresh air is the thing I feel I'm lacking the most here, and I would swap a fair bit of the creature comforts to have access to that, and to be able to see another human face, even if you have to stay well apart from them.

Hang in there, Suze2000!
You have broken the back of the quarantine term, by the sound of it.
May the final stretch go smoothly.

 

[Lynda2475]

self-catering would be the ideal option

For some. definitely not all. I can cook, but the idea of self catering is thoroughly unappealing vs having decent food delivered.

The risk of delivering food to cook yourself vs prepared meals is the same. Protocols just need to be in place such that the person delivering the food doesn't come into contact with the quarantining person.

Friends who have done HQ in NSW were able to have care packages dropped off (only restriction on alcohol) and get uber eats/deliveroo etc without issue. One friend was able to request a microwave and then had YouFoodz and mymusclechef.

 

[RooFlyer]

Ideally people should arrive in a fully stocked cabin with all the food, bedding, towels, toiletries etc they need for a two week stay. Or at most say a one week to up.

Agreed, but can you imagine the permutations and combinations of what people would want! Yes to marmite, no to vegemite; I want 0% milk not skim, I'm vegan, low carb / no carb / no nut products / halal / gluten free / pepsi not coke .... hubby will only eat plain white bread, butter not margarine etc etc etc; no scent toiletries. Hey, the kids eat like there is no tomorrow - burgers and chips mostly but only with chicken salt ... Where's my Foxtel and by the way, the wi-fi is way too slow.

One virtue of hotel quarantine is that the vast majority of people (I think ... or seem to ...) accept that its a hotel, and whats on the menu (or whatever) and whats in the bathroom is what is available - most do the main dietery requirements. But if its the government building and operating a dedicated quarantine facility, then whoa! they better gimme just what I want!

I dare say anything that can cook, above a microwave, would eventually lead to smoke and then to evacuations of the cabin and probably adjacent ones - not great in quarantine facilities.

Lets face it, the more options the government gives people, the more they will still try to game the system, complain that its not eactly what they want and/or screw things up. I'm sure one of the 'advantages' of HQ is that its a box, full of smaller boxes, with the people in them, in a setting that they would be familiar with (just for much longer than usual ...). I think in a detention quarantine 'camp' situation, the time to people getting onto roofs and/or setting something alight to protest the conditions would be a matter of days. You only need one in a few hundred ...