Australian Reports of the Virus Spread

[nutwood]

I have to say that I find it hard to understand why anyone would want to get food delivered V cooking your own when you're stuck in one room for fourteen days. Not trying to make a pro/anti cooking argument but cooking is an activity that can provide hours of occupation and challenge.
Food delivery is for the time poor. HQ would be one time, possibly the only time, in many people's lives where they are actually time rich.
Plus there are no witnesses if the yeast didn't do what it said on the packet...

 

[dajop]

For some. definitely not all. I can cook, but the idea of self catering is thoroughly unappealing vs having decent food delivered.

The risk of delivering food to cook yourself vs prepared meals is the same. Protocols just need to be in place such that the person delivering the food doesn't come into contact with the quarantining person.

Friends who have done HQ in NSW were able to have care packages dropped off (only restriction on alcohol) and get uber eats/deliveroo etc without issue. One friend was able to request a microwave and then had YouFoodz and mymusclechef.

So what is the problem with building in self catering facilities into a dedicated facility? That still gives the option of people to self cater if they wish. As it you pay $3k for one pax, $4k for two pax, essentially $1k for catering for 14 days ... that's $70/day for one pax. The cost could be cheaper with self catering.

It's a sh@##ty experience, it would be nice to have a toaster, proper fridge, and something to cook on/with. I could probably manage with an airfryer and a microwave And full size fridge.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Surely given there has been spread within the complex, it would make more sense to move mother and child into HQ.

Mother and child, along with all the other residents in the 100 townhouses, will not be in the public areas including nearby shared public access areas, where the transmission most likely would have occurred, most likely from fleeting transmission. They long with all the others are confined to their townhouses.

Unlike HQ, there are no shared (enclosed) corridors etc apart from the stairwell, and the apartments are all self-contained with no shared HVAC.

In effect the 100 townhouses have now become a quarantine facility. Somewhat analogous of cabin quarantine.

People are however able to request to be moved to HQ.

 

[Lynda2475]

So what is the problem with building in self catering facilities into a dedicated facility?

I dont have a problem with them providing the capability (I said a microwave and toaster could be useful for snacks in an earlier post) BUT, I have a problem with being told that you have to self cater and denying choice. I could get a really great selection of meals delivered for $70/day.

Ordering in isn't just about time saving, its about enjoying flavors/cuisines that you cant necessarily cook yourself.

Its doubtful any self catering facilities would be akin to cooking at home. You need only look at how meagre the pots/pans/utensils are in hotel apartments, you can bet they will get damaged/stolen and having seen what people do with hotel kettles I never use them.

 

[Austman]

in the 100 townhouses

I know the media called them townhouses but they sure look like apartments (not townhouses) to me.

the apartments are all self-contained with no shared HVAC

Is that confirmed? I can see they do have ducted air-con. And apartments commonly share some venting systems (which sometimes don't work 100% properly).

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Agreed, but can you imagine the permutations and combinations of what people would want! Yes to marmite, no to vegemite; I want 0% milk not skim, I'm vegan, low carb / no carb / no nut products / halal / gluten free / pepsi not coke .... hubby will only eat plain white bread, butter not margarine etc etc etc; no scent toiletries. Hey, the kids eat like there is no tomorrow - burgers and chips mostly but only with chicken salt ... Where's my Foxtel and by the way, the wi-fi is way too slow.

One virtue of hotel quarantine is that the vast majority of people (I think ... or seem to ...) accept that its a hotel, and whats on the menu (or whatever) and whats in the bathroom is what is available - most do the main dietery requirements. But if its the government building and operating a dedicated quarantine facility, then whoa! they better gimme just what I want!

I dare say anything that can cook, above a microwave, would eventually lead to smoke and then to evacuations of the cabin and probably adjacent ones - not great in quarantine facilities.

Lets face it, the more options the government gives people, the more they will still try to game the system, complain that its not eactly what they want and/or screw things up. I'm sure one of the 'advantages' of HQ is that its a box, full of smaller boxes, with the people in them, in a setting that they would be familiar with (just for much longer than usual ...). I think in a detention quarantine 'camp' situation, the time to people getting onto roofs and/or setting something alight to protest the conditions would be a matter of days. You only need one in a few hundred ...

While I understand your valid points you could give the quarantined the option of:

• Order and pay online at the quarantined own cost for what they wish from Woolworths or Coles (Gov to pick one).
• Or pay say $100-150/ day per person for catered food per day

 

[Must...Fly!]

SAFEWA BOMBSHELL: Police used data in murder probe

West Australian police obtained coronavirus contact tracing data to assist a murder investigation, it has been revealed.

www.perthnow.com.au

Unbelievable. COVID check ins should be for one purpose and one purpose only.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

I know the media called them townhouses but they sure look like apartments (not townhouses) to me.



Is that confirmed? I can see they do have ducted air-con. And apartments commonly share some venting systems (which sometimes don't work 100% properly).

That is what Weimar said during the presser. Or rather he said he was not an expert on it, but he said that an assessment had been made others that did know in comparing it to a HQ facility.

Also where can you see ducted aircon?

I just had look online now and the only units I can see are split-systems. These are heat-pump units that move heat via refrigerant and not air (ie not ducted).

 

[OZDUCK]

SAFEWA BOMBSHELL: Police used data in murder probe

West Australian police obtained coronavirus contact tracing data to assist a murder investigation, it has been revealed.

www.perthnow.com.au

Unbelievable. COVID check ins should be for one purpose and one purpose only.

I agree and so apparently do the State Govt. as they are today introducing new legislation that will stop future access, as per the ABC - "The new legislation would stop police and the Corruption and Crime Commission (CCC) from accessing the information" I assume that the police operated on the old principle that what is not absolutely prohibited is legal when they made those demands previously. Statements of intent by politicians are not legally binding so I guess that the Police Officers involved saw a loophole jumped through it.

 

[Austman]

Also where can you see ducted aircon?

I was looking at photos of a sold apartment:



"ducted heating/cooling throughout" but now see that it was an "improvement" so probably not the norm?

Still, it's quite common for apartment complexes to share exhaust systems. If not maintained correctly they can vent between apartments. Cooking and smoke odours can "drift" between apartments.

 

[Pushka]

We have ducted aircond in our apartment but each one has its own unit which isn’t visible but is on the apartment roof and hidden. Ducted does not always mean shared air.

 

[Austman]

Ducted does not always mean shared air.

Oh I agree. But sometimes it does. There can be a centralised building system. It seems not to be the case in this building. I only looked at one apartment, saw the ducted and merely questioned it.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

I was looking at photos of a sold apartment:

View attachment 250459View attachment 250460

"ducted heating/cooling throughout" but now see that it was an "improvement" so not the norm?

Still, it's quite common for apartment complexes to share exhaust systems. If not maintained correctly they can vent between apartments. Cooking and smoke odours can "drift"between apartments.

I think you will find it is separate units, and not shared HVAC.

The pics above show random placement of split-systems.

Looking at the rooftop, it also looks like a pattern of randomly placed split-systems of various sizes.






Note that with a split system you can still have it ducted on the inside only, and is just circulating air within the unit over the internal condensor. ie See diagram below.

.



The images I can see suggest only external split system condenser units. So not shared between units, and no exhausted air.

With separately owned units that makes managing power bills much simpler.

Now with tall highrise apartments the designer might be forced to adopted shared systems for the building.





However yes venting from bathrooms, toilets and kitchens would be something that will have needed to have been checked as there quite possibly will have been some commonality involved.

 

[Austman]

That is no shared between units, and no exhausted air.

That's for the aircons.

Exhaust systems for kitchens and bathrooms can be another matter. In larger complexes they are commonly vented into a shared exhaust (it should be negative pressure). Is it sure that's not done for these apartments? Because those shared exhaust systems are not always maintained/functioning correctly. And sometimes even unapproved renovations interfere with them.

Again, it's just a question. I guess we'll know for sure soon enough.

But the prospect that casually walking past someone in a strata common area is enough to transmit the virus is very scary.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

That's for the aircons.

Exhaust systems for kitchens and bathrooms can be another matter. They are commonly vented into a shared exhaust (it should be negative pressure). Is it sure that's not done for these apartments? Because those shared exhaust systems are not always maintained/functioning correctly.

Again, it's just a question.

Yes agreed it is certainly a factor that they would need to have considered, as my post just before yours.

Anyway Weimar said it was assessed as in compared to moving them to HQ..

But yes such buildings are not ideal. Though there are also issues with moving people, and moreso out of their own homes.

This is also not the first such residential complex locked down. ie North Melbourne Apartment Towers (highrise), and in the North Metro Region Community Clusters there were two walk-up complexes similar to this locked down on the "Isolate and release" basis.

 

[Pushka]

That's for the aircons.

Exhaust systems for kitchens and bathrooms can be another matter. In larger complexes they are commonly vented into a shared exhaust (it should be negative pressure). Is it sure that's not done for these apartments? Because those shared exhaust systems are not always maintained/functioning correctly. And sometimes even unapproved renovations interfere with them.

Again, it's just a question. I guess we'll know for sure soon enough.

But the prospect that casually walking past someone in a strata common area is enough to transmit the virus is very scary.

Our kitchen exhaust is one that vents into itself and not externally. Apartments built around 12 years ago.

 

[Austman]

Our kitchen exhaust is one that vents into itself and not externally. Apartments built around 12 years ago.

Yes many are like that. Many are not. But that's illegal for bathrooms - they must be vented externally in apartments.

It's possible to build low rises with separate external exhausts but once a strata building gets to a certain size, some form of shared exhaust system is usually needed.

 

[Pushka]

Yes many are like that. Many are not. But that's illegal for bathrooms.

The bathroom - hmm. I wonder?

 

[kyle]

I agree and so apparently do the State Govt. as they are today introducing new legislation that will stop future access, as per the ABC - "The new legislation would stop police and the Corruption and Crime Commission (CCC) from accessing the information" I assume that the police operated on the old principle that what is not absolutely prohibited is legal when they made those demands previously. Statements of intent by politicians are not legally binding so I guess that the Police Officers involved saw a loophole jumped through it.

They should make the legislation retrospective!

 

[oz_mark]

I agree and so apparently do the State Govt. as they are today introducing new legislation that will stop future access, as per the ABC - "The new legislation would stop police and the Corruption and Crime Commission (CCC) from accessing the information" I assume that the police operated on the old principle that what is not absolutely prohibited is legal when they made those demands previously. Statements of intent by politicians are not legally binding so I guess that the Police Officers involved saw a loophole jumped through it.

Given the government has known since April, they haven't been in a hurry.