Australian Reports of the Virus Spread

[N860CR]

No one has explained that if you have covid and need to isolate for seven days, that that isolation requirement is a result of poor policy. What is the alternative? You test positive and immediately head back to work?
Equally, no one has said covid will be ‘solved’ by mask wearing. But mask wearing could help reduce transmission.

Well I’m explaining it to you now. The virus does not cause 7 days isolation. Policy does that. Many many countries have done away with the policy as it’s not viable long term. The alternative is that you stay home when you’re sick and go to work when you’re not. As we’ve always done. Covid is not a virus that deserves these sorts of restrictions.

Mask wearing seems to be your current be all and end all. Again, you’re clearly happy to do this for eternity but I can assure you that the vast majority of the population is not.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Well I’m explaining it to you now. The virus does not cause 7 days isolation. Policy does that. Many many countries have done away with the policy as it’s not viable long term. The alternative is that you stay home when you’re sick and go to work when you’re not. As we’ve always done. Covid is not a virus that deserves these sorts of restrictions.

Mask wearing seems to be your current be all and end all. Again, you’re clearly happy to do this for eternity but I can assure you that the vast majority of the population is not.

Nope. I have never said masks are the total solution.

i am advocating that masks, social distancing and good hygiene can help prevent transmission by an infected person, especially in high density settings.

Even stopping an infected person transmitting it to one other person has an impact.

Those opposed to these measures have stated upthread that transmission rates are what sets apart covid from the flu in terms of numbers. Yet the same people are those advocating against masks and other simple protocols.

Asking for proof of 100% effectiveness before accepting mask use is inconsistent with virtually every other mandated safety rule and regulation we have. I don’t see why masks and other protocols are given a different standard.

 

[N860CR]

Nope. I have never said masks are the total solution.

i am advocating that masks, social distancing and good hygiene can help prevent transmission by an infected person, especially in high density settings.

Even stopping an infected person transmitting it to one other person has an impact.

Those opposed to these measures have stated upthread that transmission rates are what sets apart covid from the flu in terms of numbers. Yet the same people are those advocating against masks and other simple protocols.

Asking for proof of 100% effectiveness before accepting mask use is inconsistent with virtually every other mandated safety rule and regulation we have. I don’t see why masks and other protocols are given a different standard.

Doesn’t seem to be anything else in your playbook.

Nobody is asking for proof of 100% effectiveness. We’ve flogged the things worldwide for two and a half years and they’ve achieved nothing. Countries with hard mask mandates have the same outcome as those without. Australia’s highest transmission levels occurred when mask mandates were in place.

You need to let go. The pandemic is over. This is now just like any other endemic coronavirus (ie: a cold).

 

[drron]

I did post a link re a couple of medicos who in May 2020 predicted that Africa would have lower rates of covid than Western nations because of our obsession with cleanliness. They suspect the especially exposure to intestinal worms primes your immune system.
The less older population explanation doesn't hold water as though they certainly do die young but 2.8%live to over 65 compared to Australia at 16%. So elderly nigerians are just below 20% of the Australian total but deaths are at 10% of Australia's total. If masks and social distancing were important in preventing transmission the proportion of deaths should be higher.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I did post a link re a couple of medicos who in May 2020 predicted that Africa would have lower rates of covid than Western nations because of our obsession with cleanliness. They suspect the especially exposure to intestinal worms primes your immune system.
The less older population explanation doesn't hold water as though they certainly do die young but 2.8%live to over 65 compared to Australia at 16%. So elderly nigerians are just below 20% of the Australian total but deaths are at 10% of Australia's total. If masks and social distancing were important in preventing transmission the proportion of deaths should be higher.

the major impact for deaths in Australia is in the 70-79, 80-89 and 90+ age groups. Those are the ones to compare.

 

[JohnK]

Well I’m explaining it to you now. The virus does not cause 7 days isolation. Policy does that. Many many countries have done away with the policy as it’s not viable long term. The alternative is that you stay home when you’re sick and go to work when you’re not. As we’ve always done. Covid is not a virus that deserves these sorts of restrictions.

Mask wearing seems to be your current be all and end all. Again, you’re clearly happy to do this for eternity but I can assure you that the vast majority of the population is not.

Can you please explain to me the last time anyone had the flu and did not know?

It is clear that covid is completely different. No symptoms yet contagious. Hmmm. No one should be out and about if they are contagious. That should be the first thing we need to perfect.

Second thing is continue social distancing.

Third thing is wear masks where you cannot social distance.

We'll get through this but we need to manage it properly not ignore it like we did the flu.

 

[RooFlyer]

Just an occurrence snippet, FWIW.

Am on a cruise with 160 pax, abt 120 crew. Masks mandatory in all indoor settings (ex your cabin of course and in restaurant.) The cruise before last, they had no cases before Day 9, of a 10 day cruise. Then someone became ill - I guess there was an asymptomatic carrier the whole trip; negative RAT required to board.. When they checked, 6 pax and 20 crew had it.

Post automatically merged: Aug 12, 2022

Can you please explain to me the last time anyone had the flu and did not know?

How would we know it if the person didn't know? They haven't done regular screening tests for the flu, AFAIAA

 

[Pushka]

Can you please explain to me the last time anyone had the flu and did not know?

It is clear that covid is completely different. No symptoms yet contagious. Hmmm. No one should be out and about if they are contagious. That should be the first thing we need to perfect.

Second thing is continue social distancing.

Third thing is wear masks where you cannot social distance.

We'll get through this but we need to manage it properly not ignore it like we did the flu.

In years gone by, many people didn't test for flu if they felt unwell . Just assumed they had it. But that was an assumption. Likewise if you aren't symptomatic, you would not test for flu if close contacts had it. Likewise people who are asymptomatic for Covid won't get tested unless they are required to by law.

 

[scaredeycat]

You need to let go. The pandemic is over. This is now just like any other endemic coronavirus (ie: a cold).

You describe yourself as a frontline worker. This statement of yours makes me question your grasp of reality. How much time do you actually spend with patients actually taking a history and managing the problems being confronted by the patients suffering as a result of Covid? Or are you just a backroom manager coordinating "cruisey clinics"?

 

[drron]

the major impact for deaths in Australia is in the 70-79, 80-89 and 90+ age groups. Those are the ones to compare.

Except that Nigeria has a larger population than Australia and at age 70 and over the numbers of Nigerians in those age groups is 3 million and in Australia the numbers over 70 is 3 million. So again the age issue is a nonsense. Nigeria only has a total death rate of 3000.

 

[N860CR]

You describe yourself as a frontline worker. This statement of yours makes me question your grasp of reality. How much time do you actually spend with patients actually taking a history and managing the problems being confronted by the patients suffering as a result of Covid? Or are you just a backroom manager coordinating "cruisey clinics"?

I would question the same of you. Working in health means you’re expected to do your job. As you are well aware, the number of patients seriously “suffering” as a result of covid is tiny and certainly not deserving of the attention this virus gets.

I do agree that the job is made harder by policies such as forced isolation etc which have passed their used by date. It is, still, however the job. There are a small portion of those working in health with “hero complex” who seem to feel they are the be all and end all of the service. They generally have a very poor understanding of the bigger picture. If you wish to call me “just” a backroom manager then I have absolutely no issue with placing you in that category.

 

[N860CR]

Can you please explain to me the last time anyone had the flu and did not know?

It is clear that covid is completely different. No symptoms yet contagious. Hmmm. No one should be out and about if they are contagious. That should be the first thing we need to perfect.

Second thing is continue social distancing.

Third thing is wear masks where you cannot social distance.

We'll get through this but we need to manage it properly not ignore it like we did the flu.

Plenty of times. It’s not routinely tested for. I’ve never said covid is the “same as” the flu. It’s a coronavirus. Ie: a cold.

Sadly, can’t stop people being “out and about” with a virus they don’t know they have. As has been explained many times, masks are not an effective control measure.

 

[clifford]

As has been explained many times, masks are not an effective control measure.

Well, you say you're right all of the time, but I just think that this might be an exception.

But, of course, I could be wrong...

 

[N860CR]

Well, you say you're right all of the time, but I just think that this might be an exception.

But, of course, I could be wrong...

Have you got some evidence to show otherwise?

The end result of virus spread has been the same in countries with mask mandates and those without. Australia had its highest levels of transmission when masks were mandatory in basically all settings. Two and a half years of these things has given us sufficient data to show they do stuff all.

I don’t recall ever saying I’m right all of the time, but history supports my position on this.

 

[tgh]

The mask mandate in terms of the public setting was, with the benefit of hindsight, a wank.(failure)
It was designed to contain positives rather than protect negatives and probably seemed a good idea at the time.
The endless diatribical posting here by one supplicant presents as " I told you so" comments from a fragile ego in need of reinforcement.
Governments of the time made the best calls they could acting on the best advice they could buy.
The bug has evolved, we have moved on and the endless harping here is..boring.. time to move on.

 

[N860CR]

The mask mandate in terms of the public setting was, with the benefit of hindsight, a wank.(failure)
It was designed to contain positives rather than protect negatives and probably seemed a good idea at the time.
The endless diatribical posting here by one supplicant presents as " I told you so" comments from a fragile ego in need of reinforcement.
Governments of the time made the best calls they could acting on the best advice they could buy.
The bug has evolved, we have moved on and the endless harping here is..boring.. time to move on.

Totally agree. Extremely boring. But we haven’t moved on, and at this stage still don’t seem to have a plan as to when we will. The fact that government (and members of the public) still won’t give up on a failed plan that “seemed like a good idea at the time” is somewhat concerning.

 

[JohnK]

In years gone by, many people didn't test for flu if they felt unwell . Just assumed they had it. But that was an assumption. Likewise if you aren't symptomatic, you would not test for flu if close contacts had it. Likewise people who are asymptomatic for Covid won't get tested unless they are required to by law.

Your last sentence is the most important one in my opinion.

We can't be a society that tries to improve health and quality of life as well as prolonging life and then just turn around and say to hell with it, it's just a virus.

I suspect it won't be too long before we will have a way of monitoring real time health including a way to detect viruses.

 

[jakeseven7]

Totally agree. Extremely boring. But we haven’t moved on, and at this stage still don’t seem to have a plan as to when we will. The fact that government (and members of the public) still won’t give up on a failed plan that “seemed like a good idea at the time” is somewhat concerning.

We’ve heard rumours 7 day iso is going to go later this year…

 

[MEL_Traveller]

People have asked for evidence in controlled scientific studies that surgical masks can help prevent the spread of covid. This appear to be a study, conducted by Yale and Stanford: Surgical masks reduce COVID-19 spread, large-scale study shows

If i have read it correctly, in a randomised trial of over 350,000 people, those settings where surgical masks were used saw a 10% reduction in transmission. That increased to 35% for people over 65.

I haven’t found a study that says wearing of surgical masks is 100% INeffective at any sort of reduction in transmission.

An important observation seems to indicate that where mask wearing is employed, other risky behaviour is likely to be less, so for example when wearing masks, people are moser likely to social distance as well.

That seems relevant to me, as my experiences at airports and on public transport are that those without masks are more likely to not socially distance.

 

[MARTINE]

Forgive my levity….
This thread reminds me of when I was a medical student and needed respite from swot vac and generally losing my mind. I’d watch Days of Our Lives to completely disengage - then never again until swot vac the following year.
It was as if I watched it continuously - same actors/drama/storyline…. Pick up where you left off.
Everyone has a voice …..