Australian Reports of the Virus Spread

[N860CR]

We’ve heard rumours 7 day iso is going to go later this year…

I’d like to think that, come the end of winter (which gets the covid lovers excited), we see a gradual removal of all restrictions.

Great news is that people who are scared are still able to wear masks, lockdown and isolate regardless of government mandates. They just won’t be able to push their behaviour onto others

 

[JohnK]

I’d like to think that, come the end of winter (which gets the covid lovers excited), we see a gradual removal of all restrictions.

Great news is that people who are scared are still able to wear masks, lockdown and isolate regardless of government mandates. They just won’t be able to push their behaviour onto others

Wrong on so many levels.

It's not the people who are scared that should be isolating. The other way around. If you are infected it should be compulsory you isolate. This is not a restriction. It's common sense.

But then again common sense went out a long time ago, well before covid. Lots of people have forgotten what common sense is like.

 

[Quickstatus]

f you are infected it should be compulsory you isolate

That has been the problem this pandemic. Isolate -but where.
In most households there are other people living in the same house
The idea of "isolation" is great in theory but does not work in practice, unless the govt is prepared to build multiples of Howard springs and the Queensland one.
Remember the hotel quarantine?

 

[N860CR]

Wrong on so many levels.

It's not the people who are scared that should be isolating. The other way around. If you are infected it should be compulsory you isolate. This is not a restriction. It's common sense.

But then again common sense went out a long time ago, well before covid. Lots of people have forgotten what common sense is like.

That’s life. And that’s how it’s going to be. We aren’t going to have forced 7 day isolation for eternity, especially when we don’t mandate it for serious viruses.

 

[clifford]

It's not the people who are scared that should be isolating. The other way around. If you are infected it should be compulsory you isolate. This is not a restriction. It's common sense.

Well John, I can but agree with you.

Having just tested (PCR) positive for Covid again, after my recent trip to Perth, my wife and I are doing the right thing and isolating at home for 7 days., despite the obvious inconveniences to our personal lives. We both have virtually no symptoms at this stage, but are mindful that we should not infect anyone else, who may be more vulnerable. It's a pity that not everyone thinks this way.

And, it seems, it's getting quite difficult to go on a trip without coming home with Covid...

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Well John, I can but agree with you.

Having just tested (PCR) positive for Covid again, after my recent trip to Perth, my wife and I are doing the right thing and isolating at home for 7 days., despite the obvious inconveniences to our personal lives. We both have virtually no symptoms at this stage, but are mindful that we should not infect anyone else, who may be more vulnerable. It's a pity that not everyone thinks this way.

And, it seems, it's getting quite difficult to go on a trip without coming home with Covid...

Which is great!… but it’s the 1-2 days before any symptoms or testing positive where people can be infections, not wearing masks, and spreading. Again, I simply don’t get why people would not *want* to wear a mask for an hour on the plane, or half an hour on public transport. Especially when they claim they are mindful of the economic impacts of someone like a casual getting covid and being unable to work.

 

[JohnK]

That’s life. And that’s how it’s going to be. We aren’t going to have forced 7 day isolation for eternity, especially when we don’t mandate it for serious viruses.

Common sense says you should be isolating of your own free will without anyone forcing you to isolate.

This is a huge issue with society. Me, me and me. I should be allowed to do anything I want, whenever I want.

Very sad attitude to a serious pandemic.

 

[N860CR]

Common sense says you should be isolating of your own free will without anyone forcing you to isolate.

This is a huge issue with society. Me, me and me. I should be allowed to do anything I want, whenever I want.

Very sad attitude to a serious pandemic.

Except it’s not serious. Maybe it was in 2020… time will tell. But it’s definitely not now.

We have laws to prevent people “doing whatever they want, whenever I want”, however the days of locking people up for 7 days because they’ve “tested positive” are well and truly coming to an end (and have in many places). And not a moment too soon.

There’s still absolutely nothing stopping you isolating yourself, wearing masks, standing on yellow dots etc etc if it makes you feel better.

 

[andye]

From a front line perspective it was very serious in 2021. 20% of the admitted covid patients in hospital on ICU, 10% ventilated. With vaccinations that fell to 7%/3% during omicron and now with antivirals 3%/0.7%.
There were significant deaths in people who otherwise had decades ahead of them whereas now the vast majority are in people in their last 2 years of life (this is not to discount the lives of frail elderly people or the grief to their families at their death but they are people who are vulnerable to a wide range of infections, falls and cardiac deaths).

I personally believe that the significant restrictions in 2020-21 did have a medical benefit though not the full extent (eg the politically and media-pressured curfews).

Pursuing a covid-zero approach did seem to work in Australia in limiting spread (and was largely willingly complied with) until delta hit. I am sure many lives were saved, both from covid and having the medical capacity to manage trauma/stroke/emergency surgery etc for other conditions.

There is obviously a judgement to be made about the impact of travel bans, particularly within Australia, and of isolation on mental health. However it is interesting that completed suicide actually went down.

For me, covid is now behaving like other many respiratory infections requiring limited advice of staying home when you are sick or know you have it (length of time for debate). It would also seem to make sense to wear an N95 either if you are vulnerable and need to be out and about or when visiting someone who is highly
vulnerable

 

[JohnK]

There’s still absolutely nothing stopping you isolating yourself, wearing masks, standing on yellow dots etc etc if it makes you feel better.

I can see you want the last word on everything. The past 3 years must have really hurt you.

It's stupidity if you test positive for covid and continue to go about your business. Common sense is to isolate for as long as it takes.

And your opinion on masks is also way off the mark.

And yellow dots too are a great idea. 1.5m sounds about right. Wouldn't want you standing behind me in the queue breathing down my neck while you have covid and no mask.

 

[N860CR]

I can see you want the last word on everything. The past 3 years must have really hurt you.

It's stupidity if you test positive for covid and continue to go about your business. Common sense is to isolate for as long as it takes.

And your opinion on masks is also way off the mark.

And yellow dots too are a great idea. 1.5m sounds about right. Wouldn't want you standing behind me in the queue breathing down my neck while you have covid and no mask.

The last three years have hurt all of us. For a while there, we weren’t allowed to see our family members. Or have you forgotten that?

“Isolate for as long as it takes”. Seriously John. What is “as long as it takes”? We’re talking about a virus as mild as a cold (milder in most cases as the majority don’t even know they’ve got it).

Masks are pointless. We know that. If you don’t want people standing behind you in public, stay home.

This “virus” has certainly brought out the stupid in people, I’ll give it that.

 

[JohnK]

“Isolate for as long as it takes”. Seriously John. What is “as long as it takes”? We’re talking about a virus as mild as a cold (milder in most cases as the majority don’t even know they’ve got it).

Masks are pointless. We know that. If you don’t want people standing behind you in public, stay hohome.

The last 3 years haven't hurt me at all. Sure I couldn't visit Sydney but that's life.

It's not a mild cold for everyone. Stop calling it that. Quite a few are suffering for weeks and months.

If you're sick you'll isolate for as long as you're infectious. Is that up to 14 days? So be it. I'll give you 7 days to make you happy.

Masks are not pointless.

I have as much right to be out and about as much you. I should feel safe that everyone out and about are doing the right thing.

There's a few in this thread with common sense. The rest well have an opinion that is so far from reality that it's beyond belief.

 

[N860CR]

The last 3 years haven't hurt me at all. Sure I couldn't visit Sydney but that's life.

It's not a mild cold for everyone. Stop calling it that. Quite a few are suffering for weeks and months.

If you're sick you'll isolate for as long as you're infectious. Is that up to 14 days? So be it. I'll give you 7 days to make you happy.

Masks are not pointless.

I have as much right to be out and about as much you. I should feel safe that everyone out and about are doing the right thing.

There's a few in this thread with common sense. The rest well have an opinion that is so far from reality that it's beyond belief.

It’s great you’ve not been impacted. I thought you had a Thai bride? But you’ve proven my point and contradicted yourself. You don’t care because nothing has impacted you (so you claim).

It’s mild for virtually everyone. 1% morality without vaccination, less than 0.1% after. Non-event.

If you’re sick you stay home. As we’ve done for years.

Mask are pointless.

What is the right thing?

Seriously, the hysteria would be funny if it wasn’t impacting peoples lives so much.

You need to get this into your head. Masks are going, isolation is going, life is going back to normal. How are you going to deal with that? There are a handful of covid-obsessed here, but the vast majority are well and truly over it.

 

[drron]

From a front line perspective it was very serious in 2021. 20% of the admitted covid patients in hospital on ICU, 10% ventilated. With vaccinations that fell to 7%/3% during omicron and now with antivirals 3%/0.7%.
There were significant deaths in people who otherwise had decades ahead of them whereas now the vast majority are in people in their last 2 years of life (this is not to discount the lives of frail elderly people or the grief to their families at their death but they are people who are vulnerable to a wide range of infections, falls and cardiac deaths).

I personally believe that the significant restrictions in 2020-21 did have a medical benefit though not the full extent (eg the politically and media-pressured curfews).

Pursuing a covid-zero approach did seem to work in Australia in limiting spread (and was largely willingly complied with) until delta hit. I am sure many lives were saved, both from covid and having the medical capacity to manage trauma/stroke/emergency surgery etc for other conditions.

There is obviously a judgement to be made about the impact of travel bans, particularly within Australia, and of isolation on mental health. However it is interesting that completed suicide actually went down.

For me, covid is now behaving like other many respiratory infections requiring limited advice of staying home when you are sick or know you have it (length of time for debate). It would also seem to make sense to wear an N95 either if you are vulnerable and need to be out and about or when visiting someone who is highly
vulnerable

On the other hand many lives were lost and enjoyment of life ruined for many people by the overreactions such as lockdowns.
In a General medical ward I constantly saw this. People with dementia or young people with disabilities became totally dependent when their support systems disappeared. People with heart disease and cancers not followed up and died or became terminal way before they should. Also the homeless with very much reduced support systems. We must never forget those victims and never let general lockdowns again become part of pandemic control as was the case pre covid.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

On the other hand many lives were lost and enjoyment of life ruined for many people by the overreactions such as lockdowns.
In a General medical ward I constantly saw this. People with dementia or young people with disabilities became totally dependent when their support systems disappeared. People with heart disease and cancers not followed up and died or became terminal way before they should. Also the homeless with very much reduced support systems. We must never forget those victims and never let general lockdowns again become part of pandemic control as was the case pre covid.

If the impacts of covid on things such as delayed diagnosis are critical, why are some people not willing to wear masks to prevent the spread? Do we want the oncologist to get covid for the second or third time, delaying their work even further? The more people in hospital due to covid, the fewer staff and resources we have to treat others.

Lockdowns were an essential element in controlling the impact of covid in the absence of a vaccine or other treatments. If the next pandemic involves a disease where we have no vaccine and need to wait for one to be developed, I’m not sure what the alternative is.

It’s great you’ve not been impacted. I thought you had a Thai bride? But you’ve proven my point and contradicted yourself. You don’t care because nothing has impacted you (so you claim).

It’s mild for virtually everyone. 1% morality without vaccination, less than 0.1% after. Non-event.

If you’re sick you stay home. As we’ve done for years.

Mask are pointless.

What is the right thing?

Seriously, the hysteria would be funny if it wasn’t impacting peoples lives so much.

You need to get this into your head. Masks are going, isolation is going, life is going back to normal. How are you going to deal with that? There are a handful of covid-obsessed here, but the vast majority are well and truly over it.

I provided a link to a study, above, showing the direct and/or indirect effect of masks was a reduction in spread of between 10% and 35%.

 

[drron]

If the impacts of covid on things such as delayed diagnosis are critical, why are some people not willing to wear masks to prevent the spread? Do we want the oncologist to get covid for the second or third time, delaying their work even further? The more people in hospital due to covid, the fewer staff and resources we have to treat others.

Lockdowns were an essential element in controlling the impact of covid in the absence of a vaccine or other treatments. If the next pandemic involves a disease where we have no vaccine and need to wait for one to be developed, I’m not sure what the alternative is.


I provided a link to a study, above, showing the direct and/or indirect effect of masks was a reduction in spread of between 10% and 35%.

There is no evidence that general lockdowns reduced vthe spread of Covid whereas there are numerous studies of the adverse effects of lockdowns on general health,mental health,general enjoyment of life and the economy.

And as to masks I have presented a reasonably good study showing the effects of mask wearing at best reduced your chance of infection by 1 or 2 % at best and that for people living with a positive case. In the outside world the reduction in cases would be even less as the vast majority of people you meet will not be infected.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

There is no evidence that general lockdowns reduced vthe spread of Covid whereas there are numerous studies of the adverse effects of lockdowns on general health,mental health,general enjoyment of life and the economy.

And as to masks I have presented a reasonably good study showing the effects of mask wearing at best reduced your chance of infection by 1 or 2 % at best and that for people living with a positive case. In the outside world the reduction in cases would be even less as the vast majority of people you meet will not be infected.

So there is another study showing masks reduce infection between 10% and 35% (the upper limit for those over 65).

Comparing Australia with lockdowns and european countries that did not, I thought Australia had pretty limited transmission. The importance was waiting for the vaccine. We could have completely closed the borders - but that made many Aussies trying to get home very unhappy.

 

[exceladdict]

There is no evidence that general lockdowns reduced vthe spread of Covid whereas there are numerous studies of the adverse effects of lockdowns on general health,mental health,general enjoyment of life and the economy.

We will surely learn about the latter over the years to come, but as to the former:

Did the COVID lockdowns work? Here's what we know two years on

Research shows that lockdowns helped control cases in general – but that not all control measures had the same effect.

theconversation.com

Relevant snippet:

...a lot of researchers have worked to try to analyse the impact of lockdowns. While accepting that no method of assessment is perfect, most published studies have found evidence to support lockdown measures being effective. They also point out that different actions achieved different things in different countries.

 

[clifford]

It’s great you’ve not been impacted. I thought you had a Thai bride? But you’ve proven my point and contradicted yourself. You don’t care because nothing has impacted you (so you claim).

It’s mild for virtually everyone. 1% morality without vaccination, less than 0.1% after. Non-event.

If you’re sick you stay home. As we’ve done for years.

Mask are pointless.

What is the right thing?

Seriously, the hysteria would be funny if it wasn’t impacting peoples lives so much.

You need to get this into your head. Masks are going, isolation is going, life is going back to normal. How are you going to deal with that? There are a handful of covid-obsessed here, but the vast majority are well and truly over it.

You have a lovely turn of phrase, I have to say. Quite compassionate and understanding. I'm speaking as someone that's had Covid twice, a fractured skull and heart issues over the last 3 months. But here I am and still going strong(ish), and perhaps having a measured view on life.

Perhaps if you became a little less extreme in your views more people would agree with you. It's not hard, really.

And as for those people staying home when they are sick, I wish they had've done so before they so obviously infected me (not just Covid, but flu).

 

[dajop]

Just popped into this thread after a long absence. Still can't believe the same debates are going on. Same arguments are being presented by the same people again and again and again. No different to last time I popped in a few months ago!

On lockdowns effectiveness, there are so many definitions of what a lock down is and was. Each jurisdiction had different rules. Even in Australia, you could probably argue the succes of nation wide lockdown #1 and the second wave lockdown in Melbourne (and associated lockdown "light" in Victoria), but you could also argue that the 2021 lockdowns did a lot more harm than good.

Comparing across jurisdictions and countries is more problematic, as there were so many different parameters in different lockdowns. 5km here, 100 m there, not allowed out at all here, 1 hr of exercise there, unlimited exercise somewhere else. Grocery stores shut except for pre-orders, Grocery stores open. Restaurants closed completely, or were they allowed open for takeaway? and so on.

But to reduce the analysis to slogans like "lockdowns are bad", "masks don't work", "masks work" betrays the complicated nature of the science behind all of this nd of what happened, and it's very easy to make judgements with the benefit of hindsight. Plus most people (me included) tend to pick and choose the evidence that suits their belief rather than determining what they believe based on evidence, because the real evidence is incredibly complicated to dissect. We'll probably know in 5 years time.