Australian Reports of the Virus Spread

[Pushka]

Sure there have been mistakes made in the public service and I'm sure those who made them will suffer the consequences as a result of the judicial enquiry. But its a bit ironic that Dan is also personally responsible for errors made in one of the departments and total lack of responsibility and inappropriate/negligent behaviour by private enterprise (contracted security firms, private operators of nursing homes, legal firm requiring their staff to work in the office et al). Its also a bit ironic he's constantly being accused of cover-ups when in less than 1/2 day from finding out there was a problem, he appointed an independent judge with a very wide brief to probe and investigate totally separate to gov.

I’m curious to know, in a declared State of Emergency, how accountabilities and responsibilities are changed when compared with a business as usual situation.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

Regardless of whether they got Covid at work or not, hope Vic does the right thing by them and allows all cases to be work related...

(Vic CMO) Professor Andrew Wilson, the chief medical officer, is giving an update on the data investigation as to how many healthcare workers have got infected.

"As of the 23rd of August, 2,692 cases of healthcare worker infections have occurred in Victoria. Most of these have occurred in July and August. So there's been two distinct waves - Wave 1 and Wave 2 - and these are very different," Professor Wilson said.

"In Wave 1, about 20 per cent of the healthcare workers were felt to be infected in the healthcare setting at work. Most of the rest were felt to have been infected when they travelled overseas or were contacts of travellers from overseas.

"So that was very different to this wave, where the majority of cases have occurred at work … about 70 per cent to 80 per cent of the workers have obtained their infection at work in this second wave.

"Aged care and disability have also been included in this data, and the majority of cases - well more than half - have occurred in aged care settings.

"In hospitals, about 70 per cent of people who are infected are nursing staff, with a much smaller number who are medical staff and other healthcare workers."

the difference between CMO and CHO in Vic?

"This is probably an opportunity to clarify the difference between the Chief Health Officer and the Chief Medical Officer," Dr Sutton said.

"Andrew Wilson's with Safer Care Victoria and the administrative office of the Department of Health, and is very much focused on the quality and safety of health settings. Whereas my position is a statutory position with the public health powers under the Public Health and Wellbeing Act."

 

[Lynda2475]

Nsw today reports 3 cases

- 1 is in hotel quarantine
- 2 are linked to known cases - one linked to Liverpool Hospital, one linked to Lady of Mercy College Parramatta.

The important thing is also that both of the 2 close contacts were already in isolation, so no new community spread in today's numbers.

 

[p--and--t]

I’m curious to know, in a declared State of Emergency, how accountabilities and responsibilities are changed when compared with a business as usual situation.

Yes, it would be interesting to get a clarification.

As I thought I understand it, the responsible office during times of a declared emergency is the Emergency Management Commissioner, yet the media expects Dan to front up every day to report on anything and everything. Obviously the emergency management structure and relationships to other departments and political structure is a bit more complex than my little brain can work out.

 

[Lynda2475]

yet the media expects Dan to front up every day to report on anything and everything

Do they? In no other state or territory does the premier speak everyday, it isnt expected - it seems to me Dan has chosen not to take a single day off and play the martyr to the media. Sutton has had a few days off as is healthy, not taking any care of one's own health is not a great example by Dan imo - he could delegate the press conference once a week to someone else.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

The important thing is also that both of the 2 close contacts were already in isolation, so no new community spread in today's numbers.

True, but on the total number, it went up. So behind the numbers other cases are having unsure links.

 

[p--and--t]

Do they? In no other state or territory does the premier speak everyday, it isnt expected - it seems to me Dan has chosen not to take a single day off and play the martyr to the media. Sutton has had a few days off as is healthy, not taking any care of one's own health is not a great example by Dan imo - he could delegate the press conference once a week to someone else.

You are entitled to your opinion and interpretation of his motives.

No other state and territory is in the same position as Victoria at present

 

[Pushka]

Do they? In no other state or territory does the premier speak everyday, it isnt expected - it seems to me Dan has chosen not to take a single day off and play the martyr to the media. Sutton has had a few days off as is healthy, not taking any care of one's own health is not a great example by Dan imo - he could delegate the press conference once a week to someone else.

Not in SA. Sometimes Health Minister. Sometimes Police Commissioner. Sometimes CMO. Or deputy.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Weren’t 200 ( or thereabouts) sent into isolation as a result?


To me that’s a large number and unnecessary to have gathered in the first place, under ‘stage 4’ environment.

Under Stage 4 there are still quite a number of workplaces and industries that have been permitted to still operate under Covid safe conditions.

1/ You use the term gathered/ gatherings in a different way than is the convention during this pandemic.

While you are of course free to offer your opinion on what is permitted or not, it was permitted. Many others in the media are still working and no one seems to be demanding that they all cease working.


2/ If a permitted workplace has a positive case then actions follow.

There are multiple workplaces that have had to close in recent weeks, or partly close, when a team member gets a positive result to allow for staff testing, cleaning etc..

You have challenged many criticisms and passionately defended Victoria’s response, ‘Dan‘ in particular, and passion and loyalty are to be respected. But I suggest that those in the eye of the storm do not have the full perspective. I have been criticising my own state and Premier’s handling of the situation here,albeit because of their over caution. None of our governments are without fault and we give them latitude as the whole situation is almost unprecedented. But not carte blanche ( not that you have suggested that). Unfortunately for Victoria, the microscope is on it and faults are being exposed. It would probably be the same in any jurisdiction with the same scrutiny with a large outbreak. Here’s hoping the numbers keep coming down and the pressure will soon be off.

I strongly refute your assertion that I have blind loyalty to Dan and only take a pro-Dan stance, and your implication that the Vic Government is without fault.


It has nothing to do with loyalty. I look at the facts which is why I questioned that dubious graph in The Australian. I question the source of that graph as it was not in alignment with all of the other public data at the time. If someone states that the BLM caused cases in the apartment towers then I point the to the actual factual statements on what happened.

I have made both negative criticisms and positive criticisms of the Victorian response.

ie Many negative comments on the hotel quarantine failure. On observing that family gatherings were showing up in the data causing spread early in the second wave I questioned this before the Vic Gov acted to restrict it. A bit later I posted that I was fearful that the Vic Gov was acting too slowly with further restrictions and offered the opinion that they were being a week too slow with enacting measures.



With the Masked Singer I note that it was a permitted workplace under under stage 4.

Permitted workplaces are not immune from an employee bringing the infection onsite.

To me the issues are:

• Were appropriate procedures followed by the company concerned bother before the case and after it. Based on the reports to date both seem to have been the case.
• And what should be permitted to still operate . ie Should all tv shows not operate?

 

[antycbr]

Another update. The soft border with NSW and ACT is possibly going to be removed in a fortnight so no need for self iso and Covid tests on arrival into SA.

This is good news and perhaps the tourism industry has started to cut through with the Premier.

We have been talking about an Eyre Peninsula trip this year to follow up on our Kangaroo Island trip last year, but won't book until there's a degree of confidence. I'm happy to spend some money in regional SA whilst keeping my distance from the locals!

 

[OZDUCK]

This woman is now, apparently, the fourth person to have an enforced removal from society in W.A after trying to avoid the 14 day quarantine stay. It was certainly no accidental or misunderstanding of rules breach. Very much a pour encourager les autres event.

Woman who hid on truck to sneak into WA gets six months in jail for border quarantine breach

 

[DC3]

.... And what should be permitted to still operate . ie Should all tv shows not operate?

Can’t we just bring back all the re-runs, like in the good ole days?

 

[SydneySwan]

This woman is now, apparently, the fourth person to have an enforced removal from society in W.A after trying to avoid the 14 day quarantine stay. It was certainly no accidental or misunderstanding of rules breach. Very much a pour encourager les autres event.

Woman who hid on truck to sneak into WA gets six months in jail for border quarantine breach

So instead of 2 weeks quarantine at her expense she now gets 26 weeks at WA taxpayers expense - no winners there.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

You have challenged many criticisms and passionately defended Victoria’s response, ‘Dan‘ in particular, and passion and loyalty are to be respected. But I suggest that those in the eye of the storm do not have the full perspective.

As I mentioned just earlier my comments on the performance of the Vic Gov, including Dan, have been both positive and negative and I not just challenge and passionately defend Victoria's response. Instead I consider each point on its merits at the time. I may be wrong of course, but I strongly reject the implication that I am only pro-Dan, or pro Vic.



For example on June 21 for example I posted this. On that day cases were only 19 cases and the the second wave just starting to gain momentum.

My comments in it are clearly negative of the performance at that time of the Vic Government, and indeed I was also clearly worried about the lack of adequate measures being put in place to control what was then in my view clearly taking off.

I think most authorities have flagged since the beginning that local hotspots or breakouts would be acted on if required.

Unfortunately in Vic up until belatedly this weekend the Vic Government/Health Authorities have only interpreted this to be per workplace, or per facility. The northern suburbs have been known to have been a problem area for a while and there should have some coordinated tailored strategic actions in place to manage what has been bubbling along in these suburbs. Instead of this, it was allowed to fester, and then to grow when the restrictions were eased statewide.

With the security guards of one hotel quarantine causing a bubble, one would have though that processes would have been tightened immediately at all other sites, but no.

Too much reliance has been placed on just using statewide tools, rather than also looking at true hotspots, and potential hotspots with special strategies/restrictions just for them. This week some pretty mild local measures are being taken. Too mild for my likely. Speed to act is always critical with Covid 19.

And then some time after that once the second wave had really started to take off, after another poster had ask if it was too late too halt the second wave.

I don't think it is too late. I do think that this second wave has a lot of momentum though.

Measures squashed the first wave in Vic. Cases from it are now rare, or may even be zero. Success in halting the first wave probably caused most to relax as they thought it all over.

The security guard fiasco has created a new and larger wave, a more serious second wave and a wave that grew more quickly as it arose in segments of the community that had a much higher potential Ro. Appropriate measures can squash it too, but it is a bigger and more energetic wave now as measures were brought in way too slowly.

The virus is not clever, but people can be stupid. The virus is highly transmissible and some choose to not recognise this or appreciate it, or just to not care. And yes many get infected due the poor actions of others.

 

[OZDUCK]

So instead of 2 weeks quarantine at her expense she now gets 26 weeks at WA taxpayers expense - no winners there.

Looking at it from that point of view then there is no point for any prison sentence for any offence as it will cost the state money. In this case the cost of 26 weeks incarceration would be far less than the cost of dealing with an outbreak of Covid-19 bought in by somebody else who intended try to avoid quarantine measures by copying this woman's approach. Deterrence is part of any legal system.

 

[Must...Fly!]

This woman is now, apparently, the fourth person to have an enforced removal from society in W.A after trying to avoid the 14 day quarantine stay. It was certainly no accidental or misunderstanding of rules breach. Very much a pour encourager les autres event.

Woman who hid on truck to sneak into WA gets six months in jail for border quarantine breach

Definitely done the wrong thing.

To play devil's advocate, what happens if the border closures prove to be unconstitutional in the high court?

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Can’t we just bring back all the re-runs, like in the good ole days?

Well the re-run of the First Wave, would be far preferable to this Second Wave show now playing in Vic

 

[OZDUCK]

Definitely done the wrong thing.

To play devil's advocate, what happens if the border closures prove to be unconstitutional in the high court?

The same thing that would happen to the numerous people around Australia fined for breaching border closures I would guess. What that would be I have no idea. I am sure any three Constitutional experts will give three different opinions.

 

[blackcat20]

Can’t we just bring back all the re-runs, like in the good ole days?

Channel 10 seem to only own five episodes of Bondi Rescue which they roll out week after week

 

[SydneySwan]

Definitely done the wrong thing.

To play devil's advocate, what happens if the border closures prove to be unconstitutional in the high court?

Clive Palmer would be even more unbearable than he is now.