Australian Reports of the Virus Spread

[Lynda2475]

We can agree to disagree because both Casula and Wetherill Park have high degree of housing commission and low income earners. Victoria's numbers arent all low income earners, poor decision making/oversight and withholding information by government contributed too.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

We can agree to disagree because both Casula and Wetherill Park have high degree of housing commission and low income earners. Victoria's numbers arent all low income earners, poor decision making/oversight and withholding information by government contributed too.

Yes I certainly agree that it is a combination of reasons including government mistakes including being too slow to act. And yes it is not just low income earners now. But at the start of the second wave it was mainly low income earners.

And I do not mean who lives nearby, but who actually used the businesses. It seems that Crossroads had customers from nearby and extremely far away. One of the early cases there being from the Blue Mountains.

By witholding of information do you mean the locations that had CV19 clusters? At the start of the second wave locations such as the H&M stores, the various McDonald stores, as well as the abattoirs, the hotel quarantine hotels, each school, each childcare etc. were all listed each day. Indeed the clusters were often named after them.

ie on 30 June (You can still see all the archived daily reports)

Of the new cases linked to outbreaks:

• Six new cases are part of the Stamford Plaza outbreak, taking the total to 29. All cases were close contacts tested while in quarantine.
• Two new cases linked to Albanvale Primary School, taking the total to seven. One was a student who was a close contact of the original case, and the second is a household contact of a known case.
• A new case has been linked to the outbreak at the Coles Chilled Distribution Centre in Laverton, taking the total to five. The outbreak squad has visited the site, which has undergone a deep clean. Further contact tracing is under way and close contacts will need to quarantine.
• Two staff at the StarTrack facility in Tullamarine have tested positive. Both worked while infectious. Cleaning will be undertaken at the site and contact tracing is under way.
• Two cases linked to the Hugo Boss store on Collins Street in Melbourne have tested positive. The new cases include a staff member and a household contact, taking the total to 3. The store has closed for a deep clean and contact tracing is under way.

In other cases:

• A second healthcare worker from Orygen Youth Health facility in Footscray has tested positive. The healthcare worker was a close contact of the original case and had been in quarantine.
• Two additional staff at the Al-Taqwa College in Truganina have tested positive as have two staff members at Camberwell Grammar School.
• Students at two new schools have tested positive: one was a student at St Bernard’s College in Essendon who attended school while infectious, and two students from Moreland Primary School in Coburg have tested positive. Cleaning of relevant classrooms and common areas at all schools will be undertaken and contact tracing is under way.
• Positive cases have been identified at five childcare centres. All centres will undergo a deep clean and contact tracing has begun. The centres are: Guardian Childcare and Education in Pascoe Vale; The Grove Children’s Centre in Coburg; Little Steps Family Day Care in Sunshine; Clare Court Children’s Service in Yarraville; and Kids on Queens Parade in Fitzroy North

The first wave in Vic was squashed. So the question is what was different in the second wave that allowed it to gain momentum initially. Yes contact tracing became a large problem, but only once the wave was well established, and those resources were adequate enough in the first wave for similar numbers, but yes it became overwhelmed in the second wave once numbers of cases grew substantially. And the overwhelmed contact tracing (which was one of the key reasons why Stage 4) does not explain why the rate of spread varies so dramatically throughout Melbourne. If it was mainly that then, then Covid19 would have been equally rampant everywhere, which it has not been.

 

[Flashback]

Spite or otherwise, he is one of few with the financial clout to fight court battles of this nature.

The upholding of the constitution is an absolutely critical and fundamental pillar of our nation. It really shouldn't matter who does what against who in court - but the principles being fought quite literally define the freedoms, safety and service provided to us by our governments as citizens of the Commonwealth.

Well.. yeah... But it's about the vibe of it all

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

Victoria’s headline numbers today are 113 new cases and 23 deaths.

 

[Pushka]

Victoria’s headline numbers today are 113 new cases and 23 deaths.

Those deaths are going to be there for a while and from past high infection numbers, especially those in the 700's. However it seems the numbers in ICU and on ventilators is extremely low so in terms of that need not to overwhelm health services, that has always been achieved even at the worst stage. Im wondering how many nursing home residents perhaps should have been given more extensive care but was that withheld because of DNR?

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

Qld Premier was disgusted and crew are now in quarantine...lol

On Wednesday A Current Affair reported the Simonds party are staying in quarantine in the king suite of Queensland’s QT hotel after being moved from their luxury yacht.

The multi-millionaire Mark Simonds, his glamorous wife Cheryl, their son Vallance and his girlfriend Hannah Fox, were taken by minibus to the hotel after Queensland Health revoked their COVID-19 related exemption on Tuesday.

The boat had been given permission to enter the state.

It is unclear whether the three crew who served the three Simonds and Ms Fox, who is the granddaughter of Victorian trucking billionaire Lindsay Fox, are isolating at the same hotel.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Those deaths are going to be there for a while and from past high infection numbers, especially those in the 700's. However it seems the numbers in ICU and on ventilators is extremely low so in terms of that need not to overwhelm health services, that has always been achieved even at the worst stage. Im wondering how many nursing home residents perhaps should have been given more extensive care but was that withheld because of DNR?

Yes there will be that.

There will also be others who will have been to frail etc to be intubated.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

Those deaths are going to be there for a while and from past high infection numbers, especially those in the 700's. However it seems the numbers in ICU and on ventilators is extremely low so in terms of that need not to overwhelm health services, that has always been achieved even at the worst stage. Im wondering how many nursing home residents perhaps should have been given more extensive care but was that withheld because of DNR?

Given Newmarch’s death rate, I’m also expecting more.

I personally have a great philosophical issue with aged care carrying out the apparent pre-COVID wishes of palliative care, DNRs etc without getting further confirmation post-COVID. For example, someone might be ready to die if there was a chance to have family around them, but not if there was a prohibition on visitors.

and no I don’t want people to put their two cents worth why I’m wrong or right In respect of the said philosophical issue.

 

[Pushka]

Given Newmarch’s death rate, I’m also expecting more.

I personally have a great philosophical issue with aged care carrying out the apparent pre-COVID wishes of palliative care, DNRs etc without getting further confirmation post-COVID. For example, someone might be ready to die if there was a chance to have family around them, but not if there was a prohibition on visitors.

and no I don’t want people to put their two cents worth why I’m wrong or right In respect of the said philosophical issue.

Can I totally agree with you ? My mum had a DNR in place at her Nursing Home as she was likely to throw another stroke and which she did. But her last weeks were spent with family surrounding her. But Covid does not allow that. And it isnt even like a very sudden death from heart attack or accident where obviously we likely we dont get the chance to farewell, but with Covid a rather lonely prolonged and desolate one surrounded by people in full PPE.

What can I say? I have said to family so many times that her passing a few years ago meant I didnt have to make that decision as to whether or not to overide her DNR.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

Two new Queensland cases overnight

One was in hotel quarantine.

Another was a trainer for corrective services.

Over the last 24 hours there have been 19,780 tests.

courtesy ABC COVID live blog. Qld having their press conference now.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

7 day average new cases.

While sadly the death toll is going to maintain for some time yet, I am now quite hopeful that within a fortnight that new cases per day may well be back in the single digit range.

 

[andye]

Can I just clarify that a DNR only applies to people who have already stopped breathing. Cardiopulmonary resuscitation is almost never going to be effective in very frail patients.
The pertinent issue is other parts of Advanced Medical Planning e.g iv antibiotics, transfer to hospital, non-invasive and invasive ventilation.
A DNR order should not affect these other aspects of medical care (although it may indicate that their benefits should be weighed up)

 

[burmans]

and no I don’t want people to put their two cents worth why I’m wrong or right In respect of the said philosophical issue.

If you don't want people disagreeing with you you really shouldn't bother posting to a public forum. This isn't your personal gripe forum.

 

[Pushka]

Can I just clarify that a DNR only applies to people who have already stopped breathing. Cardiopulmonary resuscitation is almost never going to be effective in very frail patients.

Perhaps that is the case in hospitals but that isn’t the way it is being interpreted in nursing homes.
Mum was most certainly breathing and conscious when I was called in although the stroke she’d had was very evident. The conversation with the clinical staff went along the lines of “Your mother has a DNR in place. That means she refuses extraordinary treatment to prolong her life and which will start with an ambulance and be taken to hospital and drug treatment. You do understand that the DNR is being enacted or do you want to over ride that”. I don’t believe Advanced Care etc was mentioned but maybe I just didn’t hear it at the time.

 

[Seat0B]

And equally important to note the sick leave (or lack thereof) employment conditions are not limited to the state of Victoria so one must ask what the differences between the states are, more so than the similarities. In my opinion.

I read on ABC news that paid (by the federal govt) pandemic leave is now available to Tasmanians who have to isolate after a COVID test and who don't have access to sick leave, which is great. Same for Victorians. But what about people in the rest of the country?

 

[Princess Fiona]

Perhaps that is the case in hospitals but that isn’t the way it is being interpreted in nursing homes.
Mum was most certainly breathing and conscious when I was called in although the stroke she’d had was very evident. The conversation with the clinical staff went along the lines of “Your mother has a DNR in place. That means she refuses extraordinary treatment to prolong her life and which will start with an ambulance and be taken to hospital and drug treatment. You do understand that the DNR is being enacted or do you want to over ride that”. I don’t believe Advanced Care etc was mentioned but maybe I just didn’t hear it at the time.

What you are referring to is an Advanced Care Directive. It may have a Do Not Resuscitate part to it.
These terms are often used interchangeably by some providers but they are not the same. An Advanced Care Directive has details on what kind of treatments and level of care including transfer is acceptable to the person.

 

[dajop]

But if you look at the biggest international outbreaks (southern united states, Brazil and India) they are all occurring in warm/humid environments, Vic has been bloody freezing since the second wave began.

Yes, but if you look at the original outbreaks where there was a lot of community spread, they were in places that were also bloody freezing at the time, thinking Wuhan, New York, London, Milan, Seattle etc .... lot of similarities. The second wave of summer outbreaks seems to be were it the heat is bloody unbearable (although in Brazil it's winter - so lower humidity and in the south a lot lower temperatures, should make it less unbearable). Maybe that's a salient warning for Qld? I've read some theories linking it to people being inside in heating/aircon respectively, and couple that with lax rules or poor compliance and it's away ...

 

[lovetravellingoz]

What you are referring to is an Advanced Care Directive. It may have a Do Not Resuscitate part to it.
These terms are often used interchangeably by some providers but they are not the same. An Advanced Care Directive has details on what kind of treatments and level of care including transfer is acceptable to the person.

I know with my MIL there was a very detailed form, with many options, that my MIL and wife went through so that her preferences would be clear to all including medical staff, care staff and family members.

 

[Seat0B]

Can I totally agree with you ? My mum had a DNR in place at her Nursing Home as she was likely to throw another stroke and which she did. But her last weeks were spent with family surrounding her. But Covid does not allow that. And it isnt even like a very sudden death from heart attack or accident where obviously we likely we dont get the chance to farewell, but with Covid a rather lonely prolonged and desolate one surrounded by people in full PPE.

What can I say? I have said to family so many times that her passing a few years ago meant I didnt have to make that decision as to whether or not to overide her DNR.

Yes, it's such a hard time of life, even without the complications of COVID. Having lost my father and my mother-in-law recently and within 12 months of each other, I know that it was much easier for them and for us that we were all able to say our goodbyes and spend time with them at this critical life event. It definitely made the grieving easier for me, and I know that our presence provided small comfort and eased the ultimate ending for them. I cannot imagine how people feel when they are denied this moment of grace because of the COVID rules, which seem petty and small minded in this context. I heard a great comment by Prof Mary-Louise McLaws on ABC 7.30 last night when she said that we need some compassion and sense of proportion - she was talking about border closures and the impact on people attending funerals etc, but closely related point.

I must say I have always wondered why a relative could not gear up in PPE and then either self isolate or even hotel quarantine after their loved one has died, if they chose to do so.

And, as I've said elsewhere, my Qld based father-in-law is 90 years old. I can only imagine that he is nearing the end of his life (although who knows, he might live to be 100!). I would like to see him and spend time with him before he goes, not just "get an exemption" to attend his funeral (if that should happen during the time of COVID).

Written from the "ACT COVID hotspot" where it is now 47 days since our last case, despite our open border with the "NSW COVID hotspot".

 

[dajop]

And the overwhelmed contact tracing (which was one of the key reasons why Stage 4) does not explain why the rate of spread varies so dramatically throughout Melbourne. If it was mainly that then, then Covid19 would have been equally rampant everywhere, which it has not been.

Perhaps it was that people simply were not coming forward to get tested. Something that resonated with me was an interview from the most recent Four Corners report, this is at about 28:00-28:50 (with an African immigrant)

There's a huge stigma out there within the community .... the fear .... the fear within the community that you know if we get tested you know we're going to be even more marginalised more discriminated ..... if we get locked down ... how we are going to pay our mortgage ...

Four Corners: Series 2020 The Second Wave

The second wave: what went so wrong in Victoria. How did COVID-19 escape into the community, wreaking havoc and putting the nation in peril. We examine failures by the authorities who were supposed to keep the community safe.

iview.abc.net.au