Australian Reports of the Virus Spread

[Lynda2475]

SMH.com.au reports:

NSW records nine new cases, gym cluster grows
By Kate Aubusson

NSW has recorded nine new COVID-19 cases in the 24 hours to 8pm on Wednesday.

All the new cases were locally acquired – five linked to a cluster in Sydney’s CBD and four linked to previously reported cases.

Three newly diagnosed COVID-19 cases attended the Sydney Tattersalls gym, bringing the total number in the Sydney CBD to eight.

Anyone who attended the gym between 8am and 2pm on 19, 21 or 23 August is considered a close contact and must immediately get tested, self-isolate at home for 14 days, and get tested again if symptoms develop. Other members of the club who were at the venue during those dates should get tested if they develop symptoms.

There were 30,117 tests carried out over the 24-hour period.

Health alerts issued for two more Sydney gyms, three restaurants
By Kate Aubusson

NSW Health is contacting all known attendees of the Hunters Hill Bowling Club indoor dining room on 23 August from 12pm to 2pm to advise them to immediately get tested and self-isolate for 14 days even if the test is negative. People who attended other areas of the club are considered casual contacts and must monitor for symptoms and get tested if any develop.

Cases reported today also attended a number of other venues in Sydney. Anyone who visited the following locations during these times must also monitor for symptoms and get tested if any develop:

• Four Pines Manly Brew Bar on The Esplanade on August 23 from 3.30pm to 5pm
• The Magpies restaurant, Waitara on August 24 from 11.30am to 1.15pm
• Destro’s pharmac_ at 197-201 Victoria Road Drummoyne on August 22 from 11.20am to 11.40am
• Fitness First, Bond Street in Sydney CBD on August 20 and 21 in the afternoon
• Fitness First Balgowlah on August 23 from 9am to 12noon

NSW Health is calling all close contacts at the gyms to direct them to self-isolate and get tested.


My understanding is that the Tattersalls gym patient zero was an instructor - so possible they also worked at FF in Bond St and Balgowlah.

@lovetravellingoz this new cluster is in a more affluent areas - Tattersalls memberships are only for the wealthy (mostly business owners) and northern beaches locations are also only for those who can afford the beach views

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

So now 5 directly at the gym ??? Three today and 2 yesterday from memory...now that doesn’t seem like gym marshals are working ... sigh

 

[jakeseven7]

So now 5 directly at the gym ??? Three today and 2 yesterday from memory...now that doesn’t seem like gym marshals are working ... sigh

Unfortunately no measure, in any environment, is ever going to work all the time, in any state, country, anywhere. Period.

It is simply not possible.

Once we all wrap our heads around this we can all be more practical about how we are going to live alongside this virus.

 

[Seat0B]

So now 5 directly at the gym ??? Three today and 2 yesterday from memory...now that doesn’t seem like gym marshals are working ... sigh

Well from my experience, it's all a bit of a joke. We electronically swipe in - fine. The gym marshall then takes our temperature - she told me on Saturday that mine was 35.2. The previous Thursday it was recorded as 35.5 I know it's cold in Canberra but ....medically hypothermia occurs at 35! So i reckon the thermometer needed a bit of calibrating. Then they make a big ta dah about checking the number of people in a class/area, but make no effort at all to check that members on the gym floor are keeping their distance and wiping down equipment. I have not seen any extra cleaning going on by official cleaners. Some members (including me) are making a big and visible effort to clean equipment both before and after use - they are providing a good array of wipes etc. But I have observed a lot of people using weights and particularly kettlebells and then just putting them straight back on the rack. When i reported this to the reception, they shrugged.

I'd probably prefer not to go at this time, however, as a double knee replacee, I find that if I do not keep up with the exercise, I lose a lot of mobility. So I'm limiting my time at the gym and taking diligent personal responsibility to avoid contact with other people and their secretions on equipment!

 

[jakeseven7]

The second wave of summer outbreaks seems to be were it the heat is bloody unbearable (although in Brazil it's winter - so lower humidity and in the south a lot lower temperatures, should make it more unbearable). Maybe that's a salient warning for Qld? I've read some theories linking it to people being inside in heating/aircon respectively, and couple that we lax rules or poor compliance and it's away ...

Maybe Anna will SLAM OFF the aircon

 

[jakeseven7]

Some news that may help with the spread, $5, 15 min rapid test.

Abbott wins U.S. authorization for $5 rapid Covid-19 antigen test

Abbott Laboratories said on Wednesday it won U.S. marketing authorization for a Covid-19 portable antigen test that can deliver results within 15 minutes and will sell for $5.

www.cnbc.com

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

NSW total community transmissions is 27, so I presume 2 resolved in the last 24 hours:
- 7 in the past 7 days
- 5 in the 8-14 day period
- 4 in the 15-28 day period
- 11 are older than 28 days.

 

[RooFlyer]

I read on ABC news that paid (by the federal govt) pandemic leave is now available to Tasmanians who have to isolate after a COVID test and who don't have access to sick leave, which is great. Same for Victorians. But what about people in the rest of the country?

Its a scheme that's available to any state or territory. First introduced into Victoria, then PM immediately extended it to all who wanted it. The states/territories go halves with the Feds, so maybe not all want it.

 

[drron]

I cannot imagine how people feel when they are denied this moment of grace because of the COVID rules, which seem petty and small minded in this context. I heard a great comment by Prof Mary-Louise McLaws on ABC 7.30 last night when she said that we need some compassion and sense of proportion - she was talking about border closures and the impact on people attending funerals etc, but closely related point.

I must say I have always wondered why a relative could not gear up in PPE and then either self isolate or even hotel quarantine after their loved one has died, if they chose to do so.

Some people have empathy and some don't but it can and has been done.
when I was working at the height of the NWRH cluster in Tasmania the Nurse Unit Managers were given the power to admit or deny visitors.I worked on one medical ward for the first 2 weeks.The NUM had one rule-no visitors.In fact when I walked into the ward on my first day she came up to me and asked-"What are you doing on my ward.

Fortunately I switched to another ward for the last 9 weeks.The NUM there was the total opposite.Frankly just oozing empathy.Relatives were always allowed to visit if they were dying or distressed.If locals 2 at a time were given permission.

One fellow who died had children in WA,NSW and NZ.Here is where I have to praise the Tasmanian authorities.They allowed all to visit on compassionate grounds.The 2 Australians arrived in time.They had to go into hotel quarantine but times were arranged for them to visit and they had a police escort to and from the hospital.The fellow from NZ unfortunately arrived the morning after due to not being able to fly until 36 hours after the news.However even though only 5 allowed at a funeral the brother from NZ got permission to be the 6th person.

Some other State officials need to be more aware what compassionate grounds really mean.

 

[RooFlyer]

Maybe Anna will SLAM OFF the aircon

I'm sure that won't happen. I'm sure I heard her say "Queensland air conditioners are for Queenslanders ..."

 

[p--and--t]

Given Newmarch’s death rate, I’m also expecting more.

I personally have a great philosophical issue with aged care carrying out the apparent pre-COVID wishes of palliative care, DNRs etc without getting further confirmation post-COVID. For example, someone might be ready to die if there was a chance to have family around them, but not if there was a prohibition on visitors.

and no I don’t want people to put their two cents worth why I’m wrong or right In respect of the said philosophical issue.

A sensitive subject and for those impacted, very close and emotional.

But there are complexities everywhere and the stats neither accurately reveal whats happening under the covers, the individual impacts, nor ameliorate the sorrow.

Not simple to evaluate or comprehend unless we know the exact circumstance of every case which of course will not happen.

I heard the CHO say regardless of cause of death, if the person was found to have had covid (detected either pre or post death) they were counted in the covid death total.

So how many in the state numbers were people in palliative care who would have passed away in the last six months or in the next three months from medical guesstimates who had zero chance of survival from a different causation even if we didn't have a pandemic? How many actually had relatives who could/would/did visit (some don't), how many were denied access at the end, how many passed relatively abruptly and any restrictions on access visits inconsequential. A huge variety of factors all round.

 

[p--and--t]

Yes, but if you look at the original outbreaks where there was a lot of community spread, they were in places that were also bloody freezing at the time, thinking Wuhan, New York, London, Milan, Seattle etc .... lot of similarities. The second wave of summer outbreaks seems to be were it the heat is bloody unbearable (although in Brazil it's winter - so lower humidity and in the south a lot lower temperatures, should make it less unbearable). Maybe that's a salient warning for Qld? I've read some theories linking it to people being inside in heating/aircon respectively, and couple that with lax rules or poor compliance and it's away ...

My impression has always been that it is fallacious to be considering the "actual" temperature by itself.

My argument is that its the behaviours exhibited when a climatic condition relative to what the person is currently used to changes and they seek comfort from artificial sources.

i.e. it is colder than usual (it might be 6C in Melbourne or 20C in Cairns) and the person huddles inside in a confined space with a heat source exposed to limited fresh air or when its hotter/more humid than usual (30C in Melbourne and 38C and 100% humidity in Cairns) and the person dives into air-conditioning and has a vent recirculating contaminated air and blowing it all over you. In each case the person is exposing themselves to airborne virus particles.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Perhaps it was that people simply were not coming forward to get tested. Something that resonated with me was an interview from the most recent Four Corners

Yes and that was my point along with lower income and lack of sick leave that was contributing to this behaviour. People who do not have access to paid sickleave now have access to a special payment.

 

[Seat0B]

Some other State officials need to be more aware what compassionate grounds really mean.

Some people have empathy and some don't

I could not agree with you more strongly @drron.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Yes, but if you look at the original outbreaks where there was a lot of community spread, they were in places that were also bloody freezing at the time, thinking Wuhan, New York, London, Milan, Seattle etc .... lot of similarities. The second wave of summer outbreaks seems to be were it the heat is bloody unbearable (although in Brazil it's winter - so lower humidity and in the south a lot lower temperatures, should make it less unbearable). Maybe that's a salient warning for Qld? I've read some theories linking it to people being inside in heating/aircon respectively, and couple that with lax rules or poor compliance and it's away ...

There is some concern that very dry air can help to spread CV19 as the dry air can help to aerolise the virus.

However while some locations are less humid in winter Melbourne has higher humidity in its colder months.





With heating/aircon, or rather HVAC ( Heating, Ventilating, and Air Conditioning) one needs to note that there is a vast difference between the type of HVAC in larger buildings and room airconditioners such you might find in homes and small businesses.

Small airconditioners may just act like fans moving the air around a room and potentially increasing the droplet spread. Also the must quoted example of the restaurant in China where there was spread to diners at different tables had very poor ventilation into the room. The CDC found that one dinner at each of the two adjoing tables was infected, and thatwithin-family transmission then spread it to the others. Hence the focus on ventilation with external air.



Large HVAC will normally control the relative humidity. Due to CV19 facility mangers are recommended to increase the amount of fresh air that is mixed in. This in normal times is kept lower as it means more energy is required as you are heating/cooling air to a greater degree.

One step that technicians could take involves configuring ducted HVAC systems to increase the rate of exchange with fresh fresh air from outside the building to reduce recirculation. Adjusting the settings may also help. Instead of shutting down overnight or on weekends, for instance, the HVAC system could run without interruption to increase the replacement of air and minimize airflow speeds.

For futher discussion see: Can HVAC systems help prevent transmission of COVID-19?


Maintaining an indoor relative humidity between 40%-60% may help to limit the spread and survival of CV19.

High risk settings such as hospitals with infectious diseases will have additional controls depending on the risk and may include HEPA filtration, UV sterilisation etc.. Some rooms/wards will additional measures such as positive pressure.

 

[jakeseven7]

Some people have empathy and some don't but it can and has been done.

Some people have elections coming up they want to win and some don't

 

[p--and--t]

There is some concern that very dry air can help to spread CV19 as the dry air can help to aerolise the virus.

However while some locations are less humid in winter Melbourne has higher humidity in its colder months.



View attachment 226308

With heating/aircon, or rather HVAC ( Heating, Ventilating, and Air Conditioning) one needs to note that there is a vast difference between the type of HVAC in larger buildings and room airconditioners such you might find in homes and small businesses.

Small airconditioners may just act like fans moving the air around a room and potentially increasing the droplet spread. Also the must quoted example of the restaurant in China where there was spread to diners at different tables had very poor ventilation into the room. The CDC found that one dinner at each of the two adjoing tables was infected, and thatwithin-family transmission then spread it to the others. Hence the focus on ventilation with external air.
View attachment 226311


Large HVAC will normally control the relative humidity. Due to CV19 facility mangers are recommended to increase the amount of fresh air that is mixed in. This in normal times is kept lower as it means more energy is required as you are heating/cooling air to a greater degree.

One step that technicians could take involves configuring ducted HVAC systems to increase the rate of exchange with fresh fresh air from outside the building to reduce recirculation. Adjusting the settings may also help. Instead of shutting down overnight or on weekends, for instance, the HVAC system could run without interruption to increase the replacement of air and minimize airflow speeds.

For futher discussion see: Can HVAC systems help prevent transmission of COVID-19?


Maintaining an indoor relative humidity between 40%-60% may help to limit the spread and survival of CV19.

High risk settings such as hospital with infectious diseases will have additional controls depending on the setting and may include HEPA filtration, UV sterilisation etc.. Some rooms/wards will additional measures such as positive pressure.

Most aircon systems (from my experience only) seem to always leave the air much drier than naturally occurring on the same day.

It is also my observation in all the multi-storied buildings that I have worked in (with no open-able windows) that the aircon shuts down automatically to save electricity around 5:30-6:00pm while there are often still large numbers of people in the building; slowly contaminating the air that hangs around all night. Then just before start of the normal working day in the hot season the air-conditioning is working overtime recycling air in the building blasting out at volume contaminating all surfaces trying to bring down the temperature as the outside air is warmer and the building is hot because they turned it off the evening before.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

So 10% more relative humidity partially explains some of it.........hmm

June 2020 weather stats for Sydney and Melbourne.

Sydney, NSW - June 2020 - Daily Weather Observations

Melbourne, Vic - June 2020 - Daily Weather Observations

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Most aircon systems (from my experience only) seem to always leave the air much drier than naturally occurring on the same day.

For typical split systems such as in houses/ small offices etc yes as they do not control relative humidity. But yes by their nature they will dry the air.

For evaporative units in such settings they would normally increase the humidity, and in humid climates will not cool well.


Commercial HVAC plants should be able to control the relative humidity.

It is also my observation in all the multi-storied buildings that I have worked in (with no open-able windows) that the aircon shuts down automatically to save electricity around 5:30-6:00pm while there are often still large numbers of people in the building; slowly contaminating the air that hangs around all night. Then just before start of the normal working day in the hot season the air-conditioning is working overtime recycling air in the building blasting out at volume contaminating all surfaces trying to bring down the temperature as the outside air is warmer and the building is hot because they turned it off the evening before.

Yes is done to save money. When it goes off and on should vary on when occupants are actually there. Modern HVAC in larger settings have sophisticated data analytic controls to mange this as it can make great cost savings. More simple HVAC will just have timer controls.

The actual times and settings will depend on a range of factors including use (ie office, theatres, librarians, museums, gym, aquatic centre, hospital etc). some buildings will also have specificc needs to control the relative humidity such as aquatic centres and museums.

Some buildings will also have automated controls on windows to open and close them as required.

At present the recommendations are to increase the % of outside air, and to also run the plant over longer periods to help vent (flush) the building. This of course increases the operation costs.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

So 10% more relative humidity partially explains some of it.........hmm

From what I have read I don't think it is much of a factor for most Sydney and Melbourne settings.

Where it most likely is a factor is where the people work in cold rooms, such as abattoirs. The very cold temperatures will result in very dry air.