Australian Reports of the Virus Spread

[Pushka]

The difference is racism

Or just maybe - country versus city? Media with a 'country don't care' bias?

 

[dajop]

The difference is racism

Restrictions are not as sensitive a topic in regional Victoria, due to lower level of restrictions, no 5km rule, no curfew etc. No hornet's nest to stir up there as things have somewhat opened up.

Also, about the Melbourne-centricness of the media. Who knows what race the Colac families were. Many Melbourne based media outlets don't really give a hoot about what is happening in regional Victoria.

 

[p--and--t]

Or just maybe - country versus city? Media with a 'country don't care' bias?

So a guy who lives in the country with zero details released on ethnicity or how many families or any info really other than the number of infections can break restrictions and hold a party (allegedly) but (a bit like AFL footballers, boys will be boys) the media has a sort of a mention for a couple days.

But some families who use each other for child minding (allegedly) because they need to go to work to their low paying jobs (allegedly) who break restriction - we all know how many families involved, the ethnicity is disclosed and they should be fined and the media bangs on about day after day .

I smell a rat.

YMMV

 

[dajop]

There needs to be some repercussion for those that knowingly did the wrong thing, given police are enforcing fines on covid-free individuals for breaching gathering or curfew restrictions.

This isn't about justice and fairness, it's about public health. It will harm the public health effort if people start getting fined for self-reporting breaches after testing positive. The single most important thing is to trace the contacts so appropriate health measures can be taken. A $1600 fine is a powerful disincentive to truth telling.

 

[p--and--t]

Hard to know isnt it, when existing child care arrangements were labelled ok when we moved into stage 4, meaning you could continue leaving kids with family.

There was a bit of a hint given in one of the reports that the distances travelled were outside the 5km limits, one family very much so.

 

[blackcat20]

There was a bit of a hint given in one of the reports that the distances travelled were outside the 5km limits, one family very much so.

I thought childcare arrangements were exempt from the 5km rule...

 

[Lynda2475]

some families who use each other for child minding (allegedly) because they need to go to work to their low paying jobs (allegedly) who break restriction

Assumptions are being made, it hasn't been said it was for child care. If the cause was child care, and the carer was within 5kms of their home or workplace then it wouldn't be a noted as a breach, which makes me think nought to do with legitimate child care and more likely families wanting to socialise.

I also understood that child care centres were open for essential workers who needed to work outside the home, and also that there are currently subsided child care fees, making it available to more people when needed.

 

[p--and--t]

This isn't about justice and fairness, it's about public health. It will harm the public health effort if people start getting fined for self-reporting breaches after testing positive. The single most important thing is to trace the contacts so appropriate health measures can be taken. A $1600 fine is a powerful disincentive to truth telling.

Agree, There is a difference between people deliberately going out without a reason to incite trouble and encourage others to do so and deliberately break the law, and people who potentially may or may not have understood what was allowed (as @blackcat20 mentioned) and had a need to support their families and weren't trying to antagonise the police or incite anyone to break the law.

 

[blackcat20]

Assumptions are being made, it hasn't been said it was for child care. If the cause was child care, and the carer was within 5kms of their home or workplace then it wouldn't be a noted as a breach, which makes me think nought to do with legitimate child care and more likely families wanting to socialise.

I also understood that child care centres were open for essential workers who needed to work outside the home, and also that there are currently subsided child care fees, making it available to more people when needed.

It can be hard to get your kid into care if they arent already enrolled though, particularly at the moment.

 

[Pushka]

So a guy who lives in the country with zero details released on ethnicity or how many families or any info really other than the number of infections can break restrictions and hold a party (allegedly) but (a bit like AFL footballers, boys will be boys) the media has a sort of a mention for a couple days.

But some families who use each other for child minding (allegedly) because they need to go to work to their low paying jobs (allegedly) who break restriction - we all know how many families involved, the ethnicity is disclosed and they should be fined and the media bangs on about day after day .

I smell a rat.

YMMV

If there were zero details released about ethnicity of the country group so then how do you know what their ethnicity is? As far as the other group, it was Sutton who identified their ethnicity, pretty much a slip on his part according to his explanation. Lots of assumptions to fit a thought process there methinks.

 

[Lynda2475]

This isn't about justice and fairness, it's about public health. It will harm the public health effort if people start getting fined for self-reporting breaches after testing positive. The single most important thing is to trace the contacts so appropriate health measures can be taken. A $1600 fine is a powerful disincentive to truth telling.

And knowing that you wont be fined is a powerful incentive to keep doing whatever you like, goes both ways.

DA and co have been clear these families broke the restrictions, they decided to do that, only helping now that they have been found out. I'm not sure we should be celebrating the cooperation after the fact because if they did the right thing from the get go there would have many fewer contracting covid-19. Being dishonest about where you have been will get found out once the genomic sequencing is done.

 

[p--and--t]

Assumptions are being made, it hasn't been said it was for child care. If the cause was child care, and the carer was within 5kms of their home or workplace then it wouldn't be a noted as a breach, which makes me think nought to do with legitimate child care and more likely families wanting to socialise.

I also understood that child care centres were open for essential workers who needed to work outside the home, and also that there are currently subsided child care fees, making it available to more people when needed.

I think you are making a heap of assumptions that I wouldn't make. From at least one report is was more than 5km, secondly unless you know where they live and what facilities are nearby then childcare at a centre may or may not have been convenient (what hours do they work, what hours are the centres open), did the centres have any spaces, did they feel comfortable placing their children there coming from a different ethnicity, could they afford childcare, were they dropping them off to grandparents who they trusted more. So many assumptions.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Im in two minds about fining the families who breached restrictions. I get that if people fear a fine they are less likley to come forward to get tested or to cooperate with contract tracers, but at the same time if there are no consequences for these breaches

It is certainly a bit of a Catch 22.

However I would not say there are no consequences. 14 days in isolation, potential loss in income and also some element of shame for even though there is no naming, people that know them will most likely know.

there is no incentive for people to exhibit the right behaviours.

Except for the vast majority of us who just want to eliminate CV19 and to be able to get back to a more normal existence

 

[Pushka]

I think you are making a heap of assumptions that I wouldn't make. From at least one report is was more than 5km, secondly unless you know where they live and what facilities are nearby then childcare at a centre may or may not have been convenient (what hours do they work, what hours are the centres open), did the centres have any spaces, did they feel comfortable placing their children there coming from a different ethnicity, could they afford childcare, were they dropping then off to grandparents who they trusted more. So many assumptions.

And as soon as we start putting all these caveats in place - "comfort" ? then people will do as they wish.

Post automatically merged: Sep 21, 2020

Except for the vast majority of us who just want to eliminate CV19 and to be able to get back to a more normal existence

And which won't happen because we know all you need is a "disobedient" minority of people.

 

[Pete98765432]

If there were zero details released about ethnicity of the country group so then how do you know what their ethnicity is? As far as the other group, it was Sutton who identified their ethnicity, pretty much a slip on his part according to his explanation. Lots of assumptions to fit a thought process there methinks.

Sort of proves the point. Ethnicity not disclosed, media ignores it. Ethnicity disclosed, they go into a frenzy.

 

[p--and--t]

then people will do as they wish.

Everybody does. Including you and I.

Every person on the planet does what they do for their own reasons. The restrictions and laws in general are guidance put in place by authorities. Laws don't stop thieves, murderers, speeders, embezzlers, muggings. Restrictions don't stop people making their own decisions for their own reasons (aka footballers, anti-maskers, people hiding in boots at the border, drunken "infection" parties, massage parlour clients, soldiers in quarantine, etc).

Sometimes perceived necessity, sometimes convenience, sometimes obedience, sometimes ignorance, other times out of bloody-mindedness. And we have seen the full gamut over recent months.

 

[MelMel]

Something appears a bit off about the LGA case increase numbers on COVID live. They are listing an approximate increase of 39 cases across various LGA’s but the “active” case numbers don’t correlate

 

[p--and--t]

Sort of proves the point. Ethnicity not disclosed, media ignores it. Ethnicity disclosed, they go into a frenzy.

If you go back over the various outbreaks. Meatworks - the gov blamed, security guards - gov blamed, northern suburbs - ethnics blamed, towers - BLM supporters blamed (which was not true), Colac cluster - who cares, Casey - ethnics blamed.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Except for the vast majority of us who just want to eliminate CV19 and to be able to get back to a more normal existence

And which won't happen because we know all you need is a "disobedient" minority of people.

Well while you state that it will not happen, the recent data would suggest to me that this is very much happening, and indeed quicker than the roadmap date targets had.


This suggests to me that the current suite of strategies including how they handle the "disobedient" minority of people such as the Colac and Casey Families are working.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Something appears a bit off about the LGA case increase numbers on COVID live. They are listing an approximate increase of 39 cases across various LGA’s but the “active” case numbers don’t correlate

I am not sure what you are looking at, but for Victoria, across all LGA's which is the whole state Active Cases is a total reduction of 86.