Australian Reports of the Virus Spread

[p--and--t]

Yes, but those numbers are tiny.

It is more driven by:

• People wanting, or needing to, reduce expenses and rent is a huge expense for many. (Moving back home with say parents, or moving to cheaper areas)
• Work from home allowing people to not be bound by commuting requirements
• The above two have also led to some drift to regional locations in Vic

The loss of the international student market would most likely be causing more vacancies in the apartment than people having moved interstate.

Also various overseas workers in Australia have not had Visas extended and have left.

Your comments are spot on from a rental aspect.

Actions by governments due to Covid have obviously had some impacts including creating fear, reducing arrivals, reducing stock on the market, and the methods of marketing/inspections.

I am a significant residential property investor and mix with a number of others. Basically the market is slow due to various restrictions however none of us has been effected to any great extent by reduced rentals in the inner ring mid market properties. Economy slow down always effects rentals and sales in the outer mortgage belt suburbs and stock market drops always effect the top couple of percent of the market.

The exception to this is those who invested in the niche student market or short term rental where they are suffering badly. The lack of international students & tourists has impacted that niche significantly.

From a sales aspect the market has been heavily impacted by sellers being fearful from erroneous articles in the media (the usual stupid forecasts of 30-40% drop trotted out in the market Mar-Sept).

Two suburbs where I hold properties have recorded some exceptionally high sales proceeds in the last month due to a lack of stock on the market and demand from astute investors that know there will be a bounce back within 12 months. My Vic asset values are significantly higher than what they were mid 2019.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

Now to fine or not to fine??? Sigh

A regional Victorian cafe has been left heartbroken after it was contacted by health authorities and advised a positive case from Melbourne had dined there.

The owner of OddfelIows Cafe in Kilmore, an hour north of Melbourne, said she had “worked so hard” to keep their business open.

“To say I’m upset this has happened when it shouldn’t of is an understatement,” owner Kim Short wrote on Facebook yesterday.

The Melburnian was allowed to leave the CBD to provide care to someone in Kilmore however decided to dine at the cafe while transitting through.

They tested positive over the weekend after coming into contact with someone in the Chadstone cluster.

Chief health officer Professor Brett Sutton told reporters today the Melburnian was only permitted to buy take away from the cafe.

The person also triggered a virus alert at White Line Tyres in Benalla on September 30, the same day they dined at Oddfellows.

Prof Sutton did not tell reporters what suburb of Melbourne the positive case had come from.

“I do (know where they live) but I won’t say,” Prof Sutton said.

“I don’t want that individual to be potentially identifiable. Obviously the numbers of people who are in Kilmore and visit Kilmore is pretty small. Those who are working also reduces the potential number of people you can think about.”

...from news covid blog

 

[jakeseven7]

Now to fine or not to fine??? Sigh

A regional Victorian cafe has been left heartbroken after it was contacted by health authorities and advised a positive case from Melbourne had dined there.

The owner of OddfelIows Cafe in Kilmore, an hour north of Melbourne, said she had “worked so hard” to keep their business open.

“To say I’m upset this has happened when it shouldn’t of is an understatement,” owner Kim Short wrote on Facebook yesterday.

The Melburnian was allowed to leave the CBD to provide care to someone in Kilmore however decided to dine at the cafe while transitting through.

They tested positive over the weekend after coming into contact with someone in the Chadstone cluster.

Chief health officer Professor Brett Sutton told reporters today the Melburnian was only permitted to buy take away from the cafe.

The person also triggered a virus alert at White Line Tyres in Benalla on September 30, the same day they dined at Oddfellows.

Prof Sutton did not tell reporters what suburb of Melbourne the positive case had come from.

“I do (know where they live) but I won’t say,” Prof Sutton said.

“I don’t want that individual to be potentially identifiable. Obviously the numbers of people who are in Kilmore and visit Kilmore is pretty small. Those who are working also reduces the potential number of people you can think about.”

...from news covid blog

Did they fine all of the NSW people who spread it it all the south coast residents? Or just some of them?

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

Did they fine all of the NSW people who spread it it all the south coast residents? Or just some of them?

I don’t know, but my impression is that they didn’t know they were infectious(no symptom) and they were not under lockdown or ring of steel restrictions

 

[blackcat20]

Chief health officer Professor Brett Sutton told reporters today the Melburnian was only permitted to buy take away from the cafe.

We weren't aware of this and haven't read it anywhere, unless I missed it buried on the DHHS website. I would have thought if you were in regional VIC for permitted reasons then you would also be permitted to eat at open venues.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

We weren't aware of this and haven't read it anywhere, unless I missed it buried on the DHHS website. I would have thought if you were in regional VIC for permitted reasons then you would also be permitted to eat at open venues.

I thought there was the Auckland rule - the rules of your home region stay with you on your permitted travel to other regions.

So only takeaway.

But perhaps the venue also didn’t have outdoor, regional VIc have a small indoor exception, right?

 

[lovetravellingoz]

I don’t know, but my impression is that they didn’t know they were infectious(no symptom) and they were not under lockdown or ring of steel restrictions

So essentially the same then as in this case . From your report the care provider did not know they were infectious, and were allowed to travel. They were not allowed to dine in a regional cafe though

We weren't aware of this and haven't read it anywhere, unless I missed it buried on the DHHS website. I would have thought if you were in regional VIC for permitted reasons then you would also be permitted to eat at open venues.

My daughter's partner is an Essential worker including interstate and intrastate and on all of his trips intrastate throughout the pandemic he has had to comply with restrictions at that time based on where he lives and not works.

Most of his interstate trips have also meant that he was not free to dine in even if the locals were.
.

 

[blackcat20]

I thought there was the Auckland rule - the rules of your home region stay with you on your permitted travel to other regions.

So only takeaway.

But perhaps the venue also didn’t have outdoor, regional VIc have a small indoor exception, right?

Yes I've managed to find the reference on the DHHS website. It's something you'd have to go looking for, so I reckon it could have been clearer. Not sure what options the venue had but it all sounds like an honest mistake.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

I thought there was the Auckland rule - the rules of your home region stay with you on your permitted travel to other regions.

So only takeaway.

But perhaps the venue also didn’t have outdoor, regional VIc have a small indoor exception, right?

If you live in Melbourne Metro, then Melbourne Metro rules apply for permitted visitors/workers to Regional Vic.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

So essentially the same then as in this case . From your report the care provider did not know they were infectious, and were allowed to travel. They were not allowed to dine in a regional cafe though

I don’t know how you can justifiably say it’s essentially the same when the Auckland rule never applied in NSW.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Yes I've managed to find the reference on the DHHS website. It's something you'd have to go looking for, so I reckon it could have been clearer. Not sure what options the venue had but it all sounds like an honest mistake.

Perhaps, but common sense now by now really should apply.

By now people really should understand that the intent is to minimise mixing between Metro and Rural and in visiting rural Victoria you know you run the risk of infecting them and so avoid/minimise any mixing opportunities.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

I don’t know how you can justifiably say it’s essentially the same when the Auckland rule never applied in NSW.

I think you are mixing up my replies. That reply was to I don’t know, but my impression is that they didn’t know they were infectious(no symptom) and they were not under lockdown or ring of steel restrictions

ie Person did not know they were infected and they were allowed to travel

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

I think you are mixing up my replies. That reply was to I don’t know, but my impression is that they didn’t know they were infectious(no symptom) and they were not under lockdown or ring of steel restrictions

ie Person did not know they were infected and they were allowed to travel

When I talk lockdown/ring of steel I was indirectly referring to the Auckland rule, which was the basis of the original article and responding to jakeseven7 as to why I thought NSW and this case were different.

 

[RAM]

From SMH:

Top 4 countries exporting COVID-19 cases to Sydney

Australians flying home from Pakistan, the US, Britain, India and cruise ship passengers account for the bulk of NSW's COVID-19 cases imported from overseas, as community transmissions slow to a trickle.

Since March 29, there have been 786 confirmed COVID-19 cases among returned travellers. This includes travellers who arrived up to 14 days prior. Cruise ships, Pakistan, the US, Britain and India accounted for more than 58 per cent of COVID-19 infections in quarantine.

View attachment 229140
Cruise passengers and crew accounted for 16 per cent (125 people).

Just under 14 per cent were returning from Pakistan (109 people). Another 11 per cent came from the US (87 people), 8.8 per cent from Britain (69 people) and 8.5 per cent from India (67 people).

All four countries have been badly affected by COVID-19 outbreaks.

More than half of NSW’s 4038 COVID cases are imported from overseas and 90 are travellers who contracted the virus interstate.

The majority of people diagnosed with COVID-19 in hotel quarantine are Australian nationals, a spokesperson for NSW Health said.

Australia was one of the first countries to implement mandatory 14-day quarantine for incoming international travellers.

Does anyone have a link that provides the 'overseas traveller' figures from a source such as either NSW or Federal Govt department?

Somebody is not telling the truth - the question being; "Is this deliberate or just incompetence/sloppy?"

In one part the number of CV returned travellers is 786 for NSW and goes on to detail that it actually covers travellers since March 15th (March 29 - 14 days previously). So it includes the Ruby Princess. Yet the subsequent break down of where they were from does not match up with the over 300 cases of people who returned on the Ruby Princess (March 17th) who were infected & live in NSW. Then you need to add in all the Ruby Princess crew who were infected.

Yet the figures state that cruise passengers & crew accounted for just 125 of the 786.

Later the article states that more than half of NSW's 4,038 CV cases are imported (aka overseas travellers), so more than 2,020 travellers.

786 is not the same as 2,020.

Really does demonstrate just how poor basic journalism has become.



Perhaps (& based on info not public domain) the difference is revealed with the reference to majority... Australian Nationals (which has been used to cover both citizens & permanent residents).

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

Does anyone have a link that provides the 'overseas traveller' figures from a source such as either NSW or Federal Govt department?

Somebody is not telling the truth - the question being; "Is this deliberate or just incompetence/sloppy?"

In one part the number of CV returned travellers is 786 for NSW and goes on to detail that it actually covers travellers since March 15th (March 29 - 14 days previously). So it includes the Ruby Princess. Yet the subsequent break down of where they were from does not match up with the over 300 cases of people who returned on the Ruby Princess (March 17th) who were infected & live in NSW. Then you need to add in all the Ruby Princess crew who were infected.

Yet the figures state that cruise passengers & crew accounted for just 125 of the 786.

Later the article states that more than half of NSW's 4,038 CV cases are imported (aka overseas travellers), so more than 2,020 travellers.

786 is not the same as 2,020.

Really does demonstrate just how poor basic journalism has become.



Perhaps (& based on info not public domain) the difference is revealed with the reference to majority... Australian Nationals (which has been used to cover both citizens & permanent residents).

both these links may help (I hope)

News - COVID-19 (Coronavirus) statistics

For the tenth consecutive day, NSW has reported no recent cases of locally transmitted COVID-19.

www.health.nsw.gov.au

COVID-19 (Coronavirus) - Other known flights with confirmed cases of COVID-19

www.health.nsw.gov.au

 

[RAM]

Would be nice if this "principle" document was published?

Perhaps someone at The Australian or similar can FOI the whole lot around the country.

They truly are making it up as they go along.

I expect one of the first actions of an elected Queensland LNP will be the "retirement" of Dr Young.

Did she not serve under the Newman State Govt?

Senator Rex Patrick is trying to get National Cabinet papers right now and is being told NO pretty consistently.

National cabinet has been a grave mistake.

Queensland also refused to sign up to the hotspot definition if I recall correctly, they have also refused the agriculture code.

Seems that Scott M took advice from Gladys on this. Labelling any item as a cabinet paper makes it unable to be sourced under FOI or GIPA (Govt Information Public Access).

Since 2011 in NSW it has become the modus operandi for the State Govt. Even bus timetables have been refused on this grounds despite being able to download them when current. The prior timetables (when a new one issued) are now unavailable (NSW Govt refused 4 GIPA requests & appeals) as they proved the State Govt misled parliament & the community about the CSELR. Luckily I had taken a copy BEFORE the NSW Govt deleted them. Just some of what I presented to the State Auditor General that led to the investigation & subsequent report onto the CSELR disaster. Led to a new State Auditor General being appointed by Gladys. A bit like with the NSW ICAC Commissioner kicked out 1 year into a 4 year contract & 3 'safe pairs of hands' appointed in her place. Nothing like giving billions to companies that bribe to win projects.

NSW State Govt lied about Alstom Transport not being charged. The independent 'probity' consultant also missed it - twice. The fine of USD 772m was worth around AUD 1,100 at the time & bankrupted Alstom but a secret deal was done for Alstom to sell its energy business to GE US in exchange for the US Govt not making Alstom pay the fine until it got the money from GE nearly 8 months later.

Light rail company has bribery background
EXCLUSIVE: The French company operating the trams for Sydney’s $2bn eastern suburbs light rail project has been at the centre of corruption charges and was fined $800m after an FBI investigation.

A spokesman for Transport for NSW said: “We can assure taxpayers and other parties that a thorough assessment was conducted into the fairness and probity of the entire tender process.”

“[The] US court action did not involve Alstom Transport, which is supplying light rail vehicles as part of the ALTRAC consortium that won the Sydney Light Rail PPP.

The FBI said in its December 22 statement: “According to the companies’ admissions, Alstom ... through various executives and employees, paid bribes to government officials and falsified books and records in connection with power, grid and transportation projects for state-owned entities around the world

In May this year, news broke that Alstom was facing another criminal trial in the UK over bribery offences involving train contracts in Hungary.

Dec 22, 2014 was a couple of days after Gladys signed the 2nd contract in a few months for Alstom, the earlier one was for the NW rail project.

Alstom Pleads Guilty and Agrees to Pay $772 Million Criminal Penalty to Resolve Foreign Bribery Charges — FBI

WASHINGTON Alstom S. A. (Alstom), a French power and transportation company, pleaded guilty today and agreed to pay a $772,290,000 fine to resolve charges related to a widespread scheme involving tens of millions of dollars in bribes in countries around the world, including Indonesia, Saudi...

www.fbi.gov

This is why Scott changed the name of the premiers & PM gathering to 'National Cabinet' from what it was previously known as. Previously every document was available to the public.

One reason this was done was due to the Fed Govt not spending what was scheduled to be spent on the National medical stockpile. The spending had been 'raided' to help achieve the surplus to be for 2019/20.

It was not just masks, gowns & face shields that had not been replaced/purchased. Over $180m was 'under-spent' or deferred to after 1 July 2020.

Imagine what a backlash this being revealed to the public would have caused? Must consider bums-on-seats before honesty & other people after all.

Equally amongst the papers were recommendations for the community to be told to wear masks & eye protection (back in Feb/March) as there was credible evidence of aerosol transmission & infection via your eyes - however due to the under-spending (& after the event subsequent revelations of China raiding community supplies of PPE) the insufficient national stockpile saw it decided to not make it public.

Once that decision was made (with 2 State Premiers arguing VERY strongly against hiding this) making a backflip & losing 'points' once supply was available was judged to be 'too damaging'. Seems a Federal politician is afraid of a certain State Premier revealing the whole story before the end of October.....

 

[RAM]

I love it when he goes away for a short space, but it’s seriously bad for my health. I tend to stay awake until 4am reading and exist on toasted cheese sandwiches and chocolate

That is just so irresponsible!

Reading! Such a health hazard...

Should be fined!!!

 

[RAM]

both these links may help (I hope)

News - COVID-19 (Coronavirus) statistics

For the tenth consecutive day, NSW has reported no recent cases of locally transmitted COVID-19.

www.health.nsw.gov.au

COVID-19 (Coronavirus) - Other known flights with confirmed cases of COVID-19

www.health.nsw.gov.au

Thanks Happy Flyer

The 1st link suggests that NSW Health may not be due as many plaudits as AFFers have been awarding. It also does confirm there seems to be around 1,300 other 'returning travellers' who tested positive in NSW that illude these figures.

Up until March 14th there were only 248 +CV cases Australia-wide. So that does not explain even 1/10th of the missing 1,300 cases from NSW. Fun fact - those who tested positive from the previous Ruby Princess cruise (and led to the infection of crew members who spread it on the now fabled subsequent cruise) is believed to be responsible for the bulk of the rise from early March when the Aust-wide +CV cases stood at 31 on March 1st btw - that was not due to the 2 NSW nursing homes.

Just another of those 'embargoed' bits of information withheld.



Shows the inaccurate "since March 29" which we've been told really covers back to March 15th.

However why is NSW Health using three different dates to supply information in the same table? March 29th, June 30 & May 15th?

That the May 15th data is reliant on the series above which is only quoted from June 30th is concerning. Was NSW Health only keeping track on the day 10 test results & not the day 2 test results (until 46 days later when someone thought it might be a good idea?).

Or is it a case of someone who does not know any better?

That the dates do not coincide with any change in arriving traveller regime (May 15th nor June 30th) does not provide any easy excuse. NSW introduced changes on July 4th & 14th for arriving travellers.

________________________________________​

No luck in tracking down the origins of those who tested positive though (yet....)

The second link does show (if you scroll down some way) just how the Ruby Princess debacle spread CV around Australia - around 40+ flights within NSW and the rest of Australia by Ruby Princess passengers (look at the dates!). After a few days the number of flights with CV+ leaving Sydney drops by 80%.

Good article last week (if I find the link I'll add it) about how many passengers on the Q flight to the US with Ruby Princess passengers caught CV. Strange how it got zero publicity until 6+ months later, & directly contradicts what AJ said about the risk of catching CV on Q flights back then.

Post automatically merged: Oct 5, 2020

Looks like Qld will probably reset the NSW clock again:

SMH reports:

Nearly 50 passengers, crew on Jetstar flight being contacted after potential exposure to virus

Passengers and crew on a Jetstar flight from Melbourne to Sydney may have been exposed to an infectious passenger.

The passenger tested positive for COVID-19 in a day-two test in hotel quarantine after arriving in Sydney and is believed to have travelled while infectious, NSW Health said in a statement on Friday.

The Jetstar Flight JQ510 left Melbourne at 11am on September 27.

Health authorities are contacting 47 passengers who were travelling on the flight with special permits or quarantine exemptions and crew.

Most passengers on board are currently in hotel quarantine and there is no ongoing risk to the general public, NSW Health said.

Close contacts of the passenger have been told to get tested immediately and isolate for 14 days even if a negative result is received.

I want to know how many got quarantine exemptions, unless they were Vic crew returning to Melbourne same day they should be forced into quarantine, given Melbourne still has many unlinked mystery cases.

47 x exemptions, etc, sounds like a lot. May be a typo?

Not sure if it was 47 passengers and crew in total i.e. you need a special exemption to fly. Hopefully only a handful had an actual quarantine exemption.

Does not seem so.

In media conference, I heard shortly after this broke, the spokesperson said they were having trouble contacting most of them. If they were in a hotel - that would not have been a problem. Does make you wonder what is really going on, 'Animal Farm' anyone?

'All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others.'

 

[RAM]

Perhaps, but common sense by now really should apply.

By now people really should understand that the intent is to minimise mixing between Metro and Rural and in visiting rural Victoria you know you run the risk of infecting them and so avoid/minimise any mixing opportunities.

Only problem is;

'Common sense' is not very common anymore.

Seems to have been replaced by 'I am entitled.....'

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

Thanks Happy Flyer

The 1st link suggests that NSW Health may not be due as many plaudits as AFFers have been awarding. It also does confirm there seems to be around 1,300 other 'returning travellers' who tested positive in NSW that illude these figures.

Up until March 14th there were only 248 +CV cases Australia-wide. So that does not explain even 1/10th of the missing 1,300 cases from NSW. Fun fact - those who tested positive from the previous Ruby Princess cruise (and led to the infection of crew members who spread it on the now fabled subsequent cruise) is believed to be responsible for the bulk of the rise from early March when the Aust-wide +CV cases stood at 31 on March 1st btw - that was not due to the 2 NSW nursing homes.

Just another of those 'embargoed' bits of information withheld.

View attachment 229458

Shows the inaccurate "since March 29" which we've been told really covers back to March 15th.

However why is NSW Health using three different dates to supply information in the same table? March 29th, June 30 & May 15th?

That the May 15th data is reliant on the series above which is only quoted from June 30th is concerning. Was NSW Health only keeping track on the day 10 test results & not the day 2 test results (until 46 days later when someone thought it might be a good idea?).

Or is it a case of someone who does not know any better?

That the dates do not coincide with any change in arriving traveller regime (May 15th nor June 30th) does not provide any easy excuse. NSW introduced changes on July 4th & 14th for arriving travellers.

________________________________________​

No luck in tracking down the origins of those who tested positive though (yet....)

The second link does show (if you scroll down some way) just how the Ruby Princess debacle spread CV around Australia - around 40+ flights within NSW and the rest of Australia by Ruby Princess passengers (look at the dates!). After a few days the number of flights with CV+ leaving Sydney drops by 80%.

Good article last week (if I find the link I'll add it) about how many passengers on the Q flight to the US with Ruby Princess passengers caught CV. Strange how it got zero publicity until 6+ months later, & directly contradicts what AJ said about the risk of catching CV on Q flights back then.

According to NSW Health media releases, more than 1200 of the NSW cases were from overseas by 31/3.

It looks like NSW Health were identifying on average 100 cases per day from overseas between the period 22 to 31 March.

Have fun going through all the media releases by NSW Health.

News - 2020 media releases from NSW Health

www.health.nsw.gov.au

You may also find the weekly surveillance report useful

COVID-19 (Coronavirus) - NSW respiratory surveillance reports - COVID-19 and influenza

Surveillance reports with an overview of cases, hospital admissions and deaths for respiratory illness in NSW, including COVID-19, influenza and other viruses.

www.health.nsw.gov.au

Edit: I think March 29 was the date of mandatory international quarantine.

I think the other 2 dates are voluntary (later upgraded to mandatory) screening of asymptomatic international arrivals. It was introduced after finding out it was not best practice to that point.

They started to report these figures on 18 June - I’m guessing after Victoria’s issues - perhaps to give a veil of competence. Note they were screened, not swab tested, but of course since upgraded to a swab.

News - COVID-19 (Coronavirus) statistics

www.health.nsw.gov.au