Australian Reports of the Virus Spread

[antycbr]

Allowed 2hrs at SYD airport. That doesn’t include travel time to airport

Post automatically merged: Dec 21, 2020

The Commissioner admitted they had got it wrong and they are in the process of some sort of exemption for those that were turned around at the road border as long as they haven’t returned to SYD. Also offering compensation on a case by case basis

Given it’s about 1100km back to Sydney, I’d hope they hadn’t done the mad rush to the border and driven all the way back!

 

[Pushka]

Well, if I may ask, where would you rather be? SA or NSW? There’s no blame or finger pointing here among us AFFers.

No pressure.

I am still thinking at any time given our reactive SA Govt that things could change in a heartbeat.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

OK, lot of criticism about different premiers "slamming the borders" shut, but the brutal truth is there is a significant minority of the Australian population who just don't give a damn about the virus, or if they do, they don't give a damn about anyone else. Saturday, my first day of "freedom" in Australia since well early July when Victoria started going into lockdown #2 (I left MEL mid August to return to Singapore, coming back into quarantine in Sydney earlier this month).

1) Flying from Sydney to Melbourne on VA, Mask wearing compulsory. Person sitting one row ahead, but opposite was asked by FA if he had a mask, he said yes. FA, replied "Well put on then". A few minutes later overheard him talking to person sitting next to him ... even though from Sydney he just wrote on the permit form he was from "Green Zone" not the "Orange Zone", as he knew they wouldn't check. He was clearly from a demographic I understand figured heavily in Melbourne's second wave.

2) Mid evening caught up for a coffee. I've been programmed to check-in and check-out everywhere I go in SIngapore, restaurants, shops, shopping centres, even shops within shopping centres (a second layer of check-in), operating a national standard scheme for check-in/check-out using QR code, identity card or government provided fob (particularly useful for elderly). No one enforcing in Melbourne, and the QR code was so faded it was difficult to use, and no ability to check-out. Had to enter details, in Singapore when entering places, all driven by what is saved, and you don't even need to stop walking at most places, just scan the code and you are checked in. It is also built into the continually evolving "Trace Together" App (the basis of the COVID-SAFE app).

3) Later that evening, shopping in Highpoint. I did a count, only 1/3 people were actually wearing masks. Vast majority of non-compliers were also those in the demographic that I understand figured heavily in Melbourne's second wave. I will say, as Woolworths was closed had to go back next morning, and mask compliance in the centre was more like 80-85% in the morning.

IMHO think the border closures are a price we have to pay for not having some form of national track and trace, check-in type system + the absence of national identity system that could be linked to that. Ironically closures are a price of freedom.

But do you accept we can’t have a national track and trace? COVIDSafe app was effectively dead on arrival and States have now implemented Manual + QR codes for check in since States (not Federal) need the information for contact tracing.

In my opinion, border closures happen through amongst many reasons lack of trust, lack of agreement on actions to take and most prevalent fear.

Even in this case, everyone agrees it’s a hotspot but they are about 4 variations of border closure and probably 7 different underlying rationales.

The life of living in effectively a technocracy (follow the science that’s has a rainbow of expert opinions)

 

[Lynda2475]

Im in Sydney and very happy to be here.

Of all the states our Premier is the most pragmatic, we have remained largely open and our contract tracing has been well tested and proven several times they can stop clusters escalating to being out of control as happened in Melbourne. Our CHO gives clear answers and is consistent in advice.

Some premiers would have their state believe that NSW enjoys significantly less freedoms than other states, but until the Northern Beaches lockdown this hasnt really been the case, life has been pretty normal except that WFH has been encouraged and a few restrictions on venue/audience capacity. However live theatre and music has resumed, you can go to the cinema or a museum or zoo or fun park.

 

[dajop]

But do you accept we can’t have a national track and trace?

No we can't, the population will not accept it. Too much big brother. In Singapore, it's different. Different culture. Politics are minimised in a one party state. But that works best in a pandemic. Track and trace linked to national identity, so no "Donald Ducks" checking in to cafes and the like. These are things that might be a bridge to far for Australians, which is I assume why a national track and trace system has not been developed.

 

[Princess Fiona]

OK, lot of criticism about different premiers "slamming the borders" shut, but the brutal truth is there is a significant minority of the Australian population who just don't give a damn about the virus, or if they do, they don't give a damn about anyone else. Saturday, my first day of "freedom" in Australia since well early July when Victoria started going into lockdown #2 (I left MEL mid August to return to Singapore, coming back into quarantine in Sydney earlier this month).

1) Flying from Sydney to Melbourne on VA, Mask wearing compulsory. Person sitting one row ahead, but opposite was asked by FA if he had a mask, he said yes. FA, replied "Well put on then". A few minutes later overheard him talking to person sitting next to him ... even though from Sydney he just wrote on the permit form he was from "Green Zone" not the "Orange Zone", as he knew they wouldn't check. He was clearly from a demographic I understand figured heavily in Melbourne's second wave.

2) Mid evening caught up for a coffee. I've been programmed to check-in and check-out everywhere I go in SIngapore, restaurants, shops, shopping centres, even shops within shopping centres (a second layer of check-in), operating a national standard scheme for check-in/check-out using QR code, identity card or government provided fob (particularly useful for elderly). No one enforcing in Melbourne, and the QR code was so faded it was difficult to use, and no ability to check-out. Had to enter details, in Singapore when entering places, all driven by what is saved, and you don't even need to stop walking at most places, just scan the code and you are checked in. It is also built into the continually evolving "Trace Together" App (the basis of the COVID-SAFE app).

3) Later that evening, shopping in Highpoint. I did a count, only 1/3 people were actually wearing masks. Vast majority of non-compliers were also those in the demographic that I understand figured heavily in Melbourne's second wave. I will say, as Woolworths was closed had to go back next morning, and mask compliance in the centre was more like 80-85% in the morning.

IMHO think the border closures are a price we have to pay for not having some form of national track and trace, check-in type system + the absence of national identity system that could be linked to that. Ironically closures are a price of freedom.

I somewhat reluctantly find myself agreeing with you.
I see a ton of posts here critical of this state Gov and that state Premier and such and such CHO.
I think all of them are fundamentally trying to keep this virus from wreaking havoc on their residents. Yes there have been and continue to be political and financial benefits from doing so. Maybe I’m naive but I don’t think that is the primary driver for anyone who is faced with their own or their loved ones health and well-being at risk.
Faced with a sudden, growing and so far unknown source outbreak in the Sydney Northern Beaches added in with two massive upcoming super spreader events in Xmas and New Year I can see why the rest of Australia decided to close to us here in NSW.
I’m not directly affected as my extended family is in the UK and we were never a realistic chance of getting together.
But I feel for all of you who are affected and I hope that we can get this cluster ended and get back to being a unified country again.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

Given it’s about 1100km back to Sydney, I’d hope they hadn’t done the mad rush to the border and driven all the way back!

True, I think they announced the exemption process at 12 noon-ish (18-20 hours after the beginning of the error) but those on flights are stuffed.

 

[antycbr]

True, I think they announced the exemption process at 12 noon-ish (18-20 hours after the beginning of the error) but those on flights are stuffed.

Apparently 550 ended up as compulsory guests of SA Health. Eventually someone is going to sue one of the health departments if they are detaining people without lawful authority.

 

[burmans]

The issue of private security (ie no police or military presence) may not have been the sole cause of the outbreak, but the fact that no one can be held accountable for solely using private security is still a very poor outcome for those who lost loved ones in that outbreak. In fact it stinks!

Yes it stinks but the unwillingness of politicians or public servants to take responsibility is hardly new. And the public lets them get away with it every time so personally I think a fair bit on the blame falls back on the voting public. People will always do what they can get away with, so someone needs to stop them getting away with it and that’s on all of us.

 

[drron]

Well today I was finally able to use the Check in Tas app for the first time.certainly makes it easy.

But did witness an incident leaving the hospital today which does illustrate the problem.
All visitors to Tasmanian hospitals need to reply to a questionnaire when entering.Today 2 of those questions were-have you met anyone from NSW in the last 14 days.The second is have you been in NSW in the last 14 days.
The person coming in answered no to the first question but yes to the second question but said they had come from Bathurst.Fortunately those asking the questions have some training so the person was asked so how did you get to Tasmania-we flew.Which airport did you fly from-Sydney.how did you get to Sydney from Bathurst.We drove straight to the airport.Do you have any proof of that-No.
Well you can't enter now as I am referring this on to our administration.Please wait outside.
When I go back tomorrow I will pass on a "well done."

 

[burmans]

But do you accept we can’t have a national track and trace? COVIDSafe app was effectively dead on arrival and States have now implemented Manual + QR codes for check in since States (not Federal) need the information for contact tracing.

Absolutely not. The fact that the particular app implemented did not work is a reflection on that app not that it’s impossible to have a system that works. The fact that individual states do have systems that work put the lie to that. Yes there is a lack of agreement but that’s a political problem not a technical one.

 

[Must...Fly!]

Nothing to me would be much more damning than this quote from the Hotel Quarantine report in Victoria, as reported by The Age;

Neither Health Minister Jenny Mikakos nor Jobs Minister Martin Pakula received briefings from their department secretaries on the day-to-day operation of the program or the contracts to hire security companies, Ms Coate found.

"On its face, this was at odds with any normal application of the principles of the Westminster system of responsible government," Ms Coate found.

And I am not in any way surprised given what I have seen in my time living and working in Melbourne, and I will leave it at that.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

Yes it stinks but the unwillingness of politicians or public servants to take responsibility is hardly new. And the public lets them get away with it every time so personally I think a fair bit on the blame falls back on the voting public. People will always do what they can get away with, so someone needs to stop them getting away with it and that’s on all of us.

Couldn’t reply to your reply to me.

Do you think a legal/constitutional issue with a national track and trace is classified as a political or technical issue???

Do you think a practical issue with a national track and trace is classified as a political or technical issue???

Do you think an implementation issue with a national track and trace is classified as a political or technical issue???

Edit: and the previous point suggested a national track and trace + check in + national ID could fix border closure issues.

 

[OATEK]

And yet the Andrew's government is held solely responsible.

This is another deflection. At no time did I argue that the Andrew's government was solely responsible. What I did argue was that it stinks that there is no clear explanation as to how the decision was made to rely only on private security in Vic, whereas in other states the police and military were also actively involved. Perhap's others are comfortable with this, but I am not.

 

[jakeseven7]

Hopefully good news shortly for the last remaining border restrictions (outside of all the Sydney bans).

Clearly WA can only do one thing at a time

——

WA-SA border reopening imminent after Sydney coronavirus outbreak ‘distracts’ WA CHO​

​

West Australians hoping for a Christmas Day reunion with relatives from South Australia are facing an anxious wait for the resumption of quarantine-free travel to WA​

The WA Health Minister Roger Cook said a decision had not yet to been made, as the state's Chief Health Officer had been "distracted" in responding to the coronavirus outbreak on Sydney's Northern Beaches.

"We'll be making more announcements or comments in relation to South Australia in the very near future," he told ABC Radio Perth.

Decision on WA-SA border pending after Chief Health Officer 'distracted' by Sydney coronavirus outbreak

West Australian residents had been hopeful of being reunited with relatives from South Australia on Christmas Day — but now they face an anxious wait to see if quarantine-free travel will be allowed into WA in the wake of Sydney's coronavirus outbreak.

www.abc.net.au

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

Hopefully good news shortly for the last remaining border restrictions (outside of all the Sydney bans).

Clearly WA can only do one thing at a time

——

WA-SA border reopening imminent after Sydney coronavirus outbreak ‘distracts’ WA CHO​

​

​

West Australians hoping for a Christmas Day reunion with relatives from South Australia are facing an anxious wait for the resumption of quarantine-free travel to WA​

The WA Health Minister Roger Cook said a decision had not yet to been made, as the state's Chief Health Officer had been "distracted" in responding to the coronavirus outbreak on Sydney's Northern Beaches.

"We'll be making more announcements or comments in relation to South Australia in the very near future," he told ABC Radio Perth.

Decision on WA-SA border pending after Chief Health Officer 'distracted' by Sydney coronavirus outbreak

West Australian residents had been hopeful of being reunited with relatives from South Australia on Christmas Day — but now they face an anxious wait to see if quarantine-free travel will be allowed into WA in the wake of Sydney's coronavirus outbreak.

www.abc.net.au

Talk about thrown under a bus.

 

[jakeseven7]

Talk about thrown under a bus.

The WA CHO is clearly out of favour and out in the cold at the moment... something happened when his advice started conflicting with the WA governments preferred PR angles and statements

 

[Milboo]

Saw that on the Sydney news today.

AP requested all those coming from NSW get tested. Queues 6+ hours with many turned away at the end of the day.
And they only managed 4000 tests.

Amazing lack of preparation.

I arrived in QLD after 11th but before restrictions (Greater Syd not NB). Tried to locate a testing station and all local ones around here require GP referrals and I can’t just turn up. Bookings needed. So a direction has been put in place but no resources mobilised to help people do the right thing.

I was also in 3 bars/ restaurants on Saturday around James St. None of them said anything about checking in or asking to see evidence of QR code sign in. I wish QLD the best if they need to contact trace.

By comparison - one of my reports at work got a call within hours of it being identified a positive case had been at a venue she had been at. Worked through questions and was able to identify that she was clear by 2 hours thankfully.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

A few more places outside Northern Beaches listed

Two most significant are:

Alexandria specific gym class - upgraded from casual Contact to close contact.
This suggests actual infection occurred so we can probably expect another case residing outside Northern Beaches, albeit linked to the existing cluster

Blacktown gym - graded as close contact 16/12 to 18/12.

 

[kyle]

3) Later that evening, shopping in Highpoint. I did a count, only 1/3 people were actually wearing masks. Vast majority of non-compliers were also those in the demographic that I understand figured heavily in Melbourne's second wave. I will say, as Woolworths was closed had to go back next morning, and mask compliance in the centre was more like 80-85% in the morning.

whereas at Westfield Doncaster, it's like 95%+