Australian Reports of the Virus Spread

[jakeseven7]

The case for keeping international borders closed to all but returning aussies still has merit at this stage, as Covid19 is still spreading at dangerous level in many parts of the world. But here in Aus the virus is now at such low levels, we applied restrictions early, aussies largely complied and we have flattened our curve. No one can argue that our hospitals are even close to being overwhelmed - we have only 4 Covid-19 cases in ICU nationally and 26 in hopsital.

I have concerns about possible exemptions for international students in near future, unless they pay to be in supervised hotel quarantine (i do not think australian tax payer should fund their quarantine) as prior to the international border closure there was much evidence that arriving students were not properly self quarantining. IMO any exemption should definitely not be considered until Aussies can travel freely within our own country and physical distancing is consitent at 1.5sqm (not 4sqm).

We need to continue to exercise caution but we do not need to keep everyone at home as much now and further impact the economy given there is virtually no community transmission. If you are vulnerable i.e. elderly or immuno compromised or a carer for someone who is, then limiting contacts and continuing extended physcial diatncing makes sense, for everyone else we should keep up the good hygene, stay 1.5m away from strangers and stay home if feeling unwell. Keep testing freely available and keep using the app.

The WA and Qld premiers in partiucluar are behaving like NSW and Vic are teeming with active cases and that their residents represent a huge threat. I dont personally know a single person who has tested positive (or who even knows anyone who has).

Unfortunately the testing rates in the other states are behind Victoria and the dozy second tier premiers get all worriesomed

Why should international arrivals be forced to pay for a hotel while residents should be allowed to use their own home? Why can't international arrivals also use their own home and/or families home?

Perks of being a citizen I guess

 

[moa999]

Unfortunately the testing rates in the other states are behind Victoria and the dozy second tier premiers get all worriesomed

NSW did more tests than Vic in the past week, and got zero community transfers.
As did every other state.

But agree some state premiers are being way too precious

 

[Flashback]

They may not have a home to go to.

Yes, so of course they should expect to pay for a hotel. But where there is a home to goto, why should all international arrivals be tarred with the same brush/burden?

 

[Pushka]

Yes, so of course they should expect to pay for a hotel. But where there is a home to goto, why should all international arrivals be tarred with the same brush/burden?

I don't really have an opinion on the system, whatever is used; it just has to be effective to achieve isolation without abuse of the system as has occurred previously when people could self isolate.

 

[Flashback]

I don't really have an opinion on the system, whatever is used; it just has to be effective to achieve isolation without abuse of the system as has occurred previously when people could self isolate.

That's exactly it. There's always going to be those who flaunt the rules but for the other 99% of people that don't, why should they suffer.

Reminds me of my recent walks through the parks around where I live, the weather has been nice here and people have been out socialising in parks. They put their rubbish in the bins... or attempt to, seeing that it's already overflowing and then just decide to dump it on top and thus let it fall off and create a mess on the ground surrounding the bin. Now, a normal person would just take their rubbish with them if the bin was already overflowing and dispose of it elsewhere but nope, there's always the 1% who just can't be bothered and wants to ruin it for everyone else.

 

[Pushka]

That's exactly it. There's always going to be those who flaunt the rules but for the other 99% of people that don't, why should they suffer.

Because sadly the law is geared to the coughpy 1% of the population.

 

[Flashback]

Because sadly the law is geared to the coughpy 1% of the population.

It's always the minority that ruin things for the majority. Sigh.

 

[suze2000]

Yes, so of course they should expect to pay for a hotel. But where there is a home to goto, why should all international arrivals be tarred with the same brush/burden?

Because then they won't infect the family they are staying with. If you read my post I said people could only isolate on their own home if they are alone or with people who are also isolating.

If they go stay with someone who is still going out and about, and infect them, we've suddenly got an outbreak. That's why.

 

[Flashback]

Because then they won't infect the family they are staying with. If you read my post I said people could only isolate on their own home if they are alone or with people who are also isolating.

If they go stay with someone who is still going out and about, and infect them, we've suddenly got an outbreak. That's why.

Surely people have large enough homes that they can self isolate properly? That's what people in the UK have been doing when having to self isolate from the rest of the family.

Anyway, it's clear that nearly everyone on AFF is against my point of view so I'm not going to bother arguing any further.

 

[jakeseven7]

Surely people have large enough homes that they can self isolate properly? That's what people in the UK have been doing when having to self isolate from the rest of the family.

Anyway, it's clear that nearly everyone on AFF is against my point of view so I'm not going to bother arguing any further.

I wouldn't be drawing any positive learnings from the mess that is the old motherland unfortunately

 

[lovetravellingoz]

That's exactly it. There's always going to be those who flaunt the rules but for the other 99% of people that don't, why should they suffer.

Because in this case if we have people not isolating properly not only do the other 99 % (well it was probably more like 20% broke isolation, so 80%) suffer, but the 25 odd million people in Australia suffer as they all get to go back into some form of lockdown again.

Unfortunately when we had returning international arrivals self-isolating it was widely abused including the infamous Aspen (Portsea) couple. So compulsorily quarantine is what has been shown to work.

 

[suze2000]

Surely people have large enough homes that they can self isolate properly? That's what people in the UK have been doing when having to self isolate from the rest of the family.

With the UK having the second highest death toll in the world (ignoring China's lies), I'm not sure that approach has been very successful, are you?

 

[dajop]

Maybe someone needs to come up with an ink that only fades after two weeks on the skin. That way , if someone wants to self isolate at home, returning from overseas, stamp a unique number on their forehead. If they're out and about, and they come near to others, there'll be plenty of people willing to dob them in. And if they don't come close enough for anyone to see the number, then the risk is very low

 

[dajop]

With the UK having the second highest death toll in the world (ignoring China's lies), I'm not sure that approach has been very successful, are you?

Whilst I'm not convinced China are exactly telling the truth (particularly in relation to what happening in Hubei province) , also l can totally believe that it might have a lower death toll (at least outside Hubei province) than countries where individual freedoms are expected and considered a right. If the CCP wants to stop people doing things, it simply does that. Between the huge "big brother" infrastructure it has set up, the curbs on freedoms, the facial recognition that is prevalent across the country, I could realistically believe that it could much easier implement control over its population than in liberal democracies.

 

[Gremlin]

Maybe someone needs to come up with an ink that only fades after two weeks on the skin. That way , if someone wants to self isolate at home, returning from overseas, stamp a unique number on their forehead. If they're out and about, and they come near to others, there'll be plenty of people willing to dob them in. And if they don't come close enough for anyone to see the number, then the risk is very low

Certain states in India are doing exactly this. They use a similar technique when they hold elections (due to the sheer number of people, voting takes part over ~10 days) to avoid people voting multiple times.

You enter the country or enter the state and you are stamped. You test positive, you are stamped. You are found outside with a stamp and you're thrown in jail.

 

[Flashback]

With the UK having the second highest death toll in the world (ignoring China's lies), I'm not sure that approach has been very successful, are you?

Looking at infection rates per capita I don't believe UK is the 2nd highest.

 

[dajop]

Looking at infection rates per capita I don't believe UK is the 2nd highest.

Looking at Worldometer, if you exclude the microstates of San Marino and Andorra, indeed UK has 2nd highest rate of reported COVID-19 fatalities per million of population (behind Belgium). Include the microstates it is #4.

 

[andye]

Looking at infection rates per capita I don't believe UK is the 2nd highest.

Sadly the UK barely tests
By death rates its number 4 behind San Marino, Belgium and Andorra
There may be arguments about how death rates are recorded but its a much more reliable statistic than infections
My former NHS colleagues have had a torrid time

 

[Flashback]

Looking at Worldometer, if you exclude the microstates of San Marino and Andorra, indeed UK has 2nd highest rate of reported COVID-19 fatalities per million of population (behind Belgium). Include the microstates it is #4.

I suppose it depends where you get your stats from, as this one has them behind Spain as well as Belgium.

Confirmed COVID-19 deaths per million vs. GDP per capita

Shown is the 7-day rolling average. Due to varying protocols and challenges in the attribution of the cause of death, the number of confirmed deaths may not accurately represent the true number of deaths caused by COVID-19. GDP per capita is adjusted for price differences between countries (it...

ourworldindata.org

In any case, we're comparing apples & oranges. The self isolation and whether it had impact or not in the UK is not related to quarantine and border closures, that was more so if you have symptoms then you need to self isolate. So who is not to say that didn't contain the virus compared to whether that wasn't in place?

 

[Flashback]

Sadly the UK barely tests
By death rates its number 4 behind San Marino, Belgium and Andorra
There may be arguments about how death rates are recorded but its a much more reliable statistic than infections
My former NHS colleagues have had a torrid time

The UK has completed about 5 million tests to date, so not a small number. We should also note that the UK's reporting includes a lot of situations that other countries are not likely reporting as deaths, so our number is more 'true' compared to others which are massaging their statistics.