Australian women dies on Qatar flight, passengers accuse QR of delayed slow response

[Quickstatus]

Maybe we should organise an AFF meet up with a CPR component?

 

[Pushka]

A CPR course helps to allay that. CPR and associated manoeuvres is actually about a process irrespective of situation. Someone with CPR trainingis also more confident.

It's quite natural to baulk at being a first responder. But imagine what can be achieved.

There are AED in lots of places. They are useless/less effective without CPR. An AED will not activate if the heart electrical activity is a flatline. Attaching an AED does not mean it will give a shock everytime.

I have done a CPR course both through Nursing Studies and the Police Force. And have used those skills in the street. On the plane, there will be better qualified people than someone like me. Including the crew. And which is why this couple with presumably no medical knowledge nor real first hand observation of this persons medical situation should just butt out and let the Australian authorities deal with it.

 

[jb747]

If she wasn’t breathing, then how was she making a really loud noise?

 

[Quickstatus]

And which is why this couple with presumably no medical knowledge

That's my point, it does not require medical knowledge to be a first responder. Anyone can be a first responder and assist in some way. Complaining after the fact (while it may bring light to a situation) does not help the passenger

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

You need at least 2 people or more, to do CPR/DrABC properly, one who is prepared to do chest compression, and hard at it, and the other to check face, and be prepared to blow air into lungs, which a lot of people do bault at.
And chest compression one sounds easy, but its hard deep presses in lots of 5, and having to listen to the blower too, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and then stop pumping but hands still on chest, so a response can be checked at head level.
Convulsions, that is another set again, is to lay them on their side, with hands in a certain way, ...
I never did the refresher after my first lot, a few years ago.
DrABC now has been superseeded with the other one, DrsABCD.
I guess, maybe the lady on the plane would have been alive, if something had been done earlier, but who knows, without being on the flight, we can only speculate.
Which is not the ideal.

 

[drron]

It does sound from the descriptions - loss of consciousness and heavy breathing - that she had a cardiac arrest. the rates of sudden cardiac arrest have increased since covid. No one yet knows why for certain. However the rate of survival of out of hospital cardiac arrests is abysmal. World's best figures are ~11% but here are the figures for Victoria,


So having this at 35000 feet is going to lower that chance of survival even if everything happens in reasonable time.
So unfortunately whatever the crew did she was unlikely to survive.

 

[Princess Fiona]

You need at least 2 people or more, to do CPR/DrABC properly, one who is prepared to do chest compression, and hard at it, and the other to check face, and be prepared to blow air into lungs, which a lot of people do bault at.
And chest compression one sounds easy, but its hard deep presses in lots of 5, and having to listen to the blower too, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and then stop pumping but hands still on chest, so a response can be checked at head level.
Convulsions, that is another set again, is to lay them on their side, with hands in a certain way, ...
I never did the refresher after my first lot, a few years ago.
DrABC now has been superseeded with the other one, DrsABCD.
I guess, maybe the lady on the plane would have been alive, if something had been done earlier, but who knows, without being on the flight, we can only speculate.
Which is not the ideal.

Please don’t comment or post on things that you know nothing about.
A single person can do chest compressions, EAR ( expired air resuscitation) is not at all relevant in adult basic life support.
We don’t even teach it anymore.
It’s Call (for help)
Push (chest compressions)
Shock (Defibrillator once available)

 

[Princess Fiona]

It does sound from the descriptions - loss of consciousness and heavy breathing - that she had a cardiac arrest. the rates of sudden cardiac arrest have increased since covid. No one yet knows why for certain. However the rate of survival of out of hospital cardiac arrests is abysmal. World's best figures are ~11% but here are the figures for Victoria,
View attachment 348906

So having this at 35000 feet is going to lower that chance of survival even if everything happens in reasonable time.
So unfortunately whatever the crew did she was unlikely to survive.

Personally I think a massive PE would be more likely but agree. The entire event sounds grim and likely not survivable.

 

[drron]

Personally I think a massive PE would be more likely but agree. The entire event sounds grim and likely not survivable.

Yes a PE is certainly possible though usually a little longer to loss of consciousness but if it was a PE even less chance of survival without any thrombolysis available.

 

[Must...Fly!]

Please don’t comment or post on things that you know nothing about.
A single person can do chest compressions, EAR ( expired air resuscitation) is not at all relevant in adult basic life support.
We don’t even teach it anymore.
It’s Call (for help)
Push (chest compressions)
Shock (Defibrillator once available)

I can't blame the other poster, the instructions around life saving first aid have (and continue) to change quite significantly over the decades for anyone without proper medical training. As I'm sure you know, depending where you are in the world also means you are taught different things in relatively basic first aid courses.

My personal experience...don't over exert yourself, you are then no good to the person needing help. If you are suitably trained, do what you can. If other people are there - use them! Get them to call for help, have someone check nearby for an AED even if not obviously required, having it there will be invaluable should it be required. Try and keep it discrete if the person is conscious - try not to unnecessarily panic them/anyone with them.

But above all as you say, professional help is what they (and you) need.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

Yep, my DrABC "training" was circa 2001 or so.
At that time, it was one to compress, one to blow.
But no laughing matter, as Princessfiona, said, better not respond about this, as I haven't done the every 3 years refresher/update.

 

[jakeseven7]

Maybe we should organise an AFF meet up with a CPR component?

Yes! And invite Qatar airlines

 

[Quickstatus]

invite Qatar airlines

Though I suspect QF needs more resus than QR

 

[luckypierre]

Please don’t comment or post on things that you know nothing about.
A single person can do chest compressions, EAR ( expired air resuscitation) is not at all relevant in adult basic life support.
We don’t even teach it anymore.
It’s Call (for help)
Push (chest compressions)
Shock (Defibrillator once available)

It’s confusing for everyone and as previously posted the “CPR” training has changed and evolved over the last 30 years or so. From the WA SLSC:

DRSABCD Action Plan - Royal Life Saving WA

royallifesavingwa.com.au

 

[marki]

Flatline or PEA - PEA is a “nonshockable” heart rhythm, meaning a defibrillator won’t correct it

 

[Quickstatus]

defibrillator won’t correct it

Meaning it won't deliver a shock and the only thing that can recover the person until they get to hospital is CPR.

CPR” training has changed and evolved over the last 30 years or so

Changed yes but the basic premise remains. Someone needs to START the CPR and associated rescue manoeuvres. Otherwise it's useless

 

[RooFlyer]

Though I suspect QF needs more resus than QR

Zing!!

 

[jakeseven7]

Someone needs to START the CPR and associated rescue manoeuvres. Otherwise it's useless

Yes which is the whole premise of this thread and complaint from the passengers

 

[RooFlyer]

Yes which is the whole premise of this thread and complaint from the passengers

Passenger - singular. Two OPs, 4 linked media stories, one passenger.

And which stories say that CPR was done - unsuccessfully, unfortunately.

We don’t know what Francesca did to help except go to the media afterwards.

 

[Quickstatus]

You need at least 2 people or more

No you don't.

which a lot of people do bault at.

That is true, but can still do a lot of the CPR without the breathing bit. Doing a CPR/resus course explains all that.

That is why I would never ask someone why they didn't respond or even do CPR. Or criticise someone for same. Rather I would ask people to reflect on their response under similar circumstances and encourage everyone to do a CPR/basic first aid course.

is to lay them on their side, with hands in a certain way

A rescue manoeuvre . Simple to do
BUT it needs someone to act

do what you can

Exactly. CPR is not an all or nothing. Something is better than nothing

call for help,

Yes, the more help the better. But as I said all along, someone needs to be the first responder. A first responder calls for help. With luck there might be a RN or an paramedic or MBBS around

professional help is what they (and you) need.

BUT until then it's all about Basic first aid which may or may not include CPR

Instead of "I can't because of 1,2,3"
I would rather people said: "I tried"