Australian women on Qatar flight internally examined

[Lynda2475]

So you'd fly Emirates then I'm thinking

Absolutely not. I don't fly any ME airlines and have stated this many times.

QCAA (Matar) can't see how they would be involved as it clearly became a security/police matter

Well they have the security contract and were the ones who marched over 100 women at gun point off multiple flights. Also provided the staff that inspected the women internally so absolutely involved. Read the charges.

Who wins - who knows... I don't know what the 5 women the plaintiffs will accept as a settlement. Or maybe they don't want a settlement?

And can you blame the with life long trauma ptsd?

But they have been clear they don't want Qatar to have greater access to Australia and that is more than reasonable. They also want a genuine apology and admittance from all involved that it was wrong course of action, a guarantee that will not happen again. And financial compensation for lost income and treatment costs the trauma caused.

 

[RooFlyer]

And I'm also sure the QR fan boys/girls couldn't care less that I don't respect their decision to patronise QR. But if my position does given them pause to reconsider that can only be a good thing imo.

You got the first bit right. I might respect the second bit if you were consistent in your judgement of airlines/countries etc. You seem happy to go to the USA - remember that Australian woman who was shot outside her home? I think the cop got off in the end. Let alone all the other human rights issues there, especially in the African American population. Death penalty for children. I could go on, but its all been aired before.

Don't fly to the Middle East - do as you please, but please don't moralise to those of us when we see what you do as no different.

 

[Daver6]

Appalling and yet so many here desperate to fly with this company and the people they employee with zero respect for women, zero comprehension of consent.

Do you avoid everything made in China to protest the appalling record of the CCP on so many fronts?

 

[Princess Fiona]

You got the first bit right. I might respect the second bit if you were consistent in your judgement of airlines/countries etc. You seem happy to go to the USA - remember that Australian woman who was shot outside her home? I think the cop got off in the end. Let alone all the other human rights issues there, especially in the African American population. Death penalty for children. I could go on, but its all been aired before.

Don't fly to the Middle East - do as you please, but please don't moralise to those of us when we see what you do as no different.

Getting very OT but the police officer who killed Justine Damond was eventually convicted of manslaughter after having a third degree murder conviction quashed on appeal.

This thread is taking a weird turn in the “what about ism” that you see all over social media.
The topic was/is the assault that happened to the women in Doha and the subsequent follow on from that,

What moral decisions someone makes is surely a matter for themselves ?

 

[Pushka]

Absolutely not. I don't fly any ME airlines and have stated this many times.

Well they have the security contract and were the ones who marched over 100 women at gun point off multiple flights. Also provided the staff that inspected the women internally so absolutely involved. Read the charges.


And can you blame the with life long trauma ptsd?

But they have been clear they don't want Qatar to have greater access to Australia and that is more than reasonable. They also want a genuine apology and admittance from all involved that it was wrong course of action, a guarantee that will not happen again. And financial compensation for lost income and treatment costs the trauma caused.

Right. Do you fly with any airline associated with China, say Cathay?
I thought any searches were done inside an ambulance?

 

[Lynda2475]

I am consistent, you are doing an invalid strawman argument. I dont fly via the ME, I don't spend my tourism dollars where women don't have autonomy.

I dont fear flying US airlines or transiting (not that there is true transit) the USA because as a woman I have rights. I know I won't be sexually assaulted by airport staff because someone else dumped a baby. The US has many issues and risks rbut if I was a victim of a crime I know there is a judicial remedy available to me.

The every country has sins in their past argument is off topic - none of the things you quoted are even remotely compatible to the issue of state sanctioned assualt just for being a female traveller.

This thread is about a specific event and the consequences that stem from that. You don't see it as significant, so you will look theother way. I refuse to devalue the victims by doing that.

 

[Lynda2475]

Right. Do you fly with any airline associated with China, say Cathay?

No. No interest in Mainland China, and i avoid chinese made goods., I have been to HK (flying QF) but won't returnagain it's sad how it has changed for the worse under ccp.

I am however unaware of any incident of Chinese govt eemployees physically assaulting transiting airline passengers because they are female and too lazy to use sensible methods to investigate a crime where all evidence points to a worker.

I thought any searches were done inside an ambulance?

At the airport by staff employed by QR owned company that provides security and medical services at DOH. Which is clearly mentioned in the articles re the court case which I quoted earlier.

Maybe instead of trying to defend the indefensible, look at the facts of what happened and is being prosecuted.

 

[Pushka]

No. No interest in Mainland China, and i avoid chinese made goods., I have been to HK (flying QF) but won't returnagain it's sad how it has changed for the worse under ccp.

I am however unaware of any incident of Chinese govt eemployees physically assaulting transiting airline passengers because they are female and too lazy to use sensible methods to investigate a crime where all evidence points to a worker.



At the airport by staff employed by QR owned company that provides security and medical services at DOH. Which is clearly mentioned in the articles re the court case which I quoted earlier.

Maybe instead of trying to defend the indefensible, look at the facts of what happened and is being prosecuted.

I never defended the indefensible. I am trying to ascertain whether Qatar airways staff or crew were involved in any of the searches.

 

[Pushka]

What moral decisions someone makes is surely a matter for themselves ?

Exactly. And that works in both directions. There's no need to insult anyone for any moral decisions that are made.

So I see the issue for some is not about what a country does or does not do in their country but only concern for passengers in transit.

 

[drron]

They were taken off the Qatar Airways plane by armed guards before being taken into ambulances on the tarmac where they were inspected by nurses.

Australian women sue over Qatar airport strip-searches

They are seeking damages after being forced into examinations at Doha airport last year.

www.bbc.com

 

[Lynda2475]

So I see the issue for some is not about what a country does or does not do in their country but only concern for passengers in transit.

An inaccurate observationn, oversimplifying a positively that you don't agree with.

If you want to propose people not travel elsewhere due to other ongoing events by all means start relevant threads. But going OT doesn't make a relevant point for the case this thread is about.

 

[justinbrett]

I don't think it's that far fetched that the government would use what little leverage they have (with air services agreements) to encourage Qatar to clean up its mess with regards to this incident. It doesn't have to be a carte blanche moral stand, it's just a "well, we don't think you're doing the right thing by these women, so we aren't open to changing the treaty at this time". It's called diplomatic leverage.

And even if you don't think it got to that level, than it's certainly reasonable for the government to be concerned about political fallout if the media were to connect these two events - which they did.

 

[Lynda2475]

I never defended the indefensible. I am trying to ascertain whether Qatar airways staff or crew were involved in any of the searches.

The fact that QR owned company who provided the staff who committed the offences are name in the lawsuit has already been established here

Australian women on Qatar flight internally examined

The mother (and father) were both identified, and was facing charges of attempted murder. Via the assault method inflicyed on innocent transit passengers or via more practical CCTV footage and other methods later? ETA - Google says they identified mother after she had excaped so clearly done...

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

Look at the court filing QR provide security and health staff at DOH. It may not have been cabin crew but was QR airport staff.

 

[drron]

Some people see the world in black and white.
I see it in multiple shades of grey as that is what my life experiences tell me.
So I still think the Government's decision on QR is stupid even though I have never flown QR.

And things happen even on US planes.

American Airlines passenger who says she was raped in bathroom sues carrier

Aubrey Lane says staff failed to protect her and others when they served the alleged attacker as many as six alcoholic drinks

www.theguardian.com

A Woman Says She Was Groped While Napping on a Plane

She says she woke up to another passenger touching her breast mid-flight.

www.thecut.com

Man Charged in Sexual Assault of Woman on a Flight, Officials Say (Published 2019)

An American Airlines flight from North Carolina to Utah was diverted to Tulsa, Okla., where the man was arrested, officials said.

www.nytimes.com

https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/incidents/drunk-delta-airlines-passenger-downs-11-drinks-sexually-assaults-minor-and-her-mum-lawsuit-claims/news-story/df01aa556574f572f890d7c90748456d

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dr-gridlock/wp/2018/01/04/sleeping-woman-sexually-assaulted-on-plane-by-man-sitting-between-her-and-his-wife-officials-say/

Michigan woman on Spirit Airlines flight: Passenger put hand in my pants while I slept

A Michigan college student says she was sexually assaulted on a Spirit Airlines flight, but that flight attendants treated her like an annoyance.

www.freep.com

 

[RooFlyer]

And things happen even on US planes.

Oh! I can confidently say that I'll never fly the USA again << Mostly because I can't be bothered renewing my B1/B2 visa, having visited Iran>>

 

[Daver6]

No. No interest in Mainland China, and i avoid chinese made goods., I have been to HK (flying QF) but won't returnagain it's sad how it has changed for the worse under ccp.

I mean this genuinely when I say, kudos to you for avoiding Chinese made good as that aligns with your values. Personally, I think it would be nearly impossible to actually do so. Many of the components in your phone/computer are likely made in China. Really, any electronic device, like a fridge, microwave, car etc is going to have parts made in China. Now yes, I'm sure there will be the odd example that doesn't.

 

[Danger]

FYI the law suit is against: Government-owned Qatar Civil Aviation Authority (QCAA), Qatar Airways AND THE Qatar Company for Airports Operation and Management (MATAR).

FYI MATAR is a corporate subsidiary of Qatar Airways and has been contracted out by the QCAA to manage the Doha airport. The nurse and armed personnel who conducted the strip searches were employees of MATAR - so those saying no QR responsibility are incorrect since their staff inappropriately and illegally assaulted women from multiple flights.

Appalling and yet so many here desperate to fly with this company and the people they employee with zero respect for women, zero comprehension of consent.

I admire your commitment to taking a stand and backing a cause, Lynda2475. Given that stand, though, I would like to ask what airlines you do feel comfortable flying with and perhaps some of the others (if any) that you don't for similarly moral or ethical reasons. Equally, would you mind sharing some of the countries you are happy to visit, those that do not have "zero respect for women" and human rights abuses, for example?

Qatar apparently carried 5.8 million passengers in 2020-21. The abhorrent incident that is the focus of this thread was a single incident impacting 13 women on one single flight. Qatar was founded 30 years ago.

I support without reservation the campaign by all of the women to seek appropriate retribution. I can even see how it may some small bearing on the minister's overall decision. I do not support it being the basis or even the majority of the basis for the decision not to grant addition flights (which may or may not be the case).

 

[Pushka]

Australian women sue over Qatar airport strip-searches

They are seeking damages after being forced into examinations at Doha airport last year.

www.bbc.com

It sounds more military/security involvement than QR staff. Whatever, it's ghastly.

 

[Himeno]

It sounds more military/security involvement than QR staff. Whatever, it's ghastly.

The airport is operated by a subsidiary of QR. The people involved in the search incident were airport security staff and airport medical staff.
The security and medical personal at the airport work for the airport, which is part of QR, hence the people involved work for QR.

 

[VPS]

I am consistent, you are doing an invalid strawman argument. I dont fly via the ME, I don't spend my tourism dollars where women don't have autonomy.

I dont fear flying US airlines or transiting (not that there is true transit) the USA because as a woman I have rights. I know I won't be sexually assaulted by airport staff because someone else dumped a baby. The US has many issues and risks rbut if I was a victim of a crime I know there is a judicial remedy available to me.

The every country has sins in their past argument is off topic - none of the things you quoted are even remotely compatible to the issue of state sanctioned assualt just for being a female traveller.

This thread is about a specific event and the consequences that stem from that. You don't see it as significant, so you will look theother way. I refuse to devalue the victims by doing that.

And yet you are happy to go to the USA where you are denied an abortion even though the pregnancy resulted from incest or rape.