Australian women on Qatar flight internally examined

[get me outta here]

Reasonable Q, for me, there is NO mitigating circumstances. Even if one actually believes what they now say as their reason and excuse.

The SMH is also reporting that the baby Girl was in a plastic bag with rubbish on top an an apparent attempt to conceal her. If this is accurate does this now make it an attempted murder investigation, and does this explain, or at least mitigate, the Qataris graceless actions, as all women in the appropriate demographic become potential suspects ?
I ask this as a question, not a statement.

Very horrific and even more so The baby was alive and our under rubbish. Baby now doing well

 

[RAM]

"This was the first instance of an abandoned infant being discovered in such a condition at HIA – this egregious and life-threatening violation of the law triggered an immediate search for the parents, including on flights in the vicinity of where the newborn was found," according to a statement from the Qatari government.

'Waiting for report': Women on nine other planes were stopped and searched at Doha airport

Dozens more women from around the world could have been subjected to invasive body searches at Doha airport after it was revealed a total of 10 planes were caught up in the scandal.

www.smh.com.au

I'd hate to think what might have happened to the mother if they had found her.

Equally though, imagine what would have happened to the premature baby if not found in time in the toilets!

In similar situations within Australia - the authorities launch an extensive investigation to try & find the mother always 'saying' it is because the mother may be in need of medical assistance or risk death. Depending on the circumstances of the specific case - sometimes the mother receives pyschiatric care & no charges are filed but in other cases they're prosecuted.

A further complication is that this is during CV - so whilst passengers allowed to transit from all countries they are not allowed to leave the airport necessarily due to risk of carrying CV.

Qatar could have handled it totally differently - no argument. Communication seems to rate between 0 or 1 out of 10 at best.

But how exactly could it have been done better (other than communication)?

A premature baby is found, possibly dying, and numerous planes are about to depart in the next 30 minutes. To put this in perspective - it took over 75 minutes for decisive action to be taken on 9/11 after hijacking was first suspected/detected.

In the Qatar authorities' view (perhaps):

• their law has been broken & they want to prosecute (quite likely) under their extreme laws.
• perhaps they were genuinely concerned about the health & welfare of the mother on a flight of potentially up to 14 hours or more - maybe for the woman or maybe for the bad publicity of woman dies on flight - who knows.
• adopt a 'fast' or 'slow' response with the repercussions accordingly.
• risk of CV+ passengers being screened

Fast response - use a female doctor/nurse " inspected, and touched, by the female nurse" to conduct the examination - as quote from one of two women in ABC article.

Possible consequences:

• Limited disruption to departing flights
• 'Quick' resolution
• Woman does not die on the flight
• Provides excuse of 'time pressures' if any blow back
• 'Seen to be done' to meet the demands certain to be coming from Qatari media

Slow response - offload all adult (>12 yr old) females leave their flights for a much longer period of time (potentially several days).

Possible consequences:

• Massive disruption to flights with all luggage belonging to the women having to be identified & offloaded, potentially entire flight having to be re-balanced.
• Woman does not die on the flight.
• Travelling partners/children also potentially offloaded (now unaccompanied children or male partners demanding to accompany). Raises serious issues of 'unmarried' males partners being against the law....far worse outcome for many women
• Significantly higher risk of CV contamination as hotel accomodation required at no notice for potentially hundreds complete with security, medical personnel etc etc (not so easy as we have found out - one mistake...).
• Domestic media backlash & potential demands for death penalty for foreign female from 1st or 2nd world country (no problem with 3rd work females being executed - see numerous 'maids' articles).
• Likely much greater world media coverage due to 'forced removal, detention & examination'.

BTW - a quick search for DNA testing in Doha seems to show tests are shipped to Europe or the US for processing. I may have missed one offering local processing.

Of course, the incident details released to-date are remarkably lacking in full detail.

So much speculation currently (not just on AFF).

Did all the women reboard the flight to Australia or was one (who may have been travelling alone) detained without the other passengers noticing - that is something that none of the articles appear to have addressed whether deliberately or not.

If that was the case then that could explain why nothing was reported for 3+ weeks. That one complainant is considering launching a 'class action to sue' if all the other women will join her - adds some complications.

Much more information required before this matter will be settled in the Court of Public Opinion although the verdict is already in for perhaps the majority - warranted or not.

A bit like how private security guards (many with next to no preparatory training) were blamed for the Melbourne outbreak and so vilified in the press & social media despite the actual source of the initial contagion being a full-time hotel manager escorting Vic Health Dept staff and others (not security guards) to deal with a room with human waste spread contamination in multiple locations outside of the bathroom. Yet still we hear certain politicians referencing the security guards as the culprits.

 

[NM]

It seems Qatar has finally apologised for the incident.

Qatar finally apologises for genital examination incident

Qatar has finally apologised for the “distress or infringement” felt by women forced to undergo a genital examination at Hamad Airport.

australianaviation.com.au

 

[williamsj]

Hope the baby is ok its mother could have been a cleaner and I agree the video footage would have seen who the females were in that toilet in that time also the examinations had to be done before the flights left

 

[get me outta here]

What I heard was not an apology. It was a reason and what they think is an excuse. It does excuse them.

It seems Qatar has finally apologised for the incident.

Qatar finally apologises for genital examination incident

Qatar has finally apologised for the “distress or infringement” felt by women forced to undergo a genital examination at Hamad Airport.

australianaviation.com.au

 

[get me outta here]

Pathetic :

“Qatar's government says it regrets "any distress or infringement on personal freedoms" caused when 18 Australian women were subjected to invasive physical examinations after an abandoned premature baby was discovered at Doha airport.

The statement from Qatar's Government Communications Office, released on Wednesday, said the searches of women on a flight to Sydney was necessary to "prevent the perpetrators of the horrible crime from escaping" after the baby was discovered earlier this month”.

“Up to 15 per cent of Australians returning home from overseas are travelling on Qatar airlines. "They are actually providing a pretty important role in getting Australians home," Mr Morrison said”.

SBS News. Qatari government 'regrets distress' caused by invasive searches of 18 Australian flight passengers

 

[Tiki]

How can such a horrible thing even happen in the first place?

1. Heavily pregnant woman is in a secure area of the airport accessible by transit passengers. How did she get past security? I have been through Doha a few times, vaguely remember being frisked by a female security guard. Are women allowed to fly when they are THAT pregnant? If her baby survived, she would have been at least what-7 or 8 months pregnant?
2. How can she give birth alone in an airport toilet without being seen? From what I have seen, it's a messy and painful event, lots of blood. And I think most women upon seeing a woman in labor would immediately run for medical help assuming the woman would need it. I would have run to the nearest help desk and told then to get a doctor to the ladies room fast, a woman is giving birth!
3. Why would a woman choose an airport to anonymously abandon a newborn (if she did this on purpose)? Especially knowing hat airports are full of security? Wouldn't a hospital, a mosque or church have been a better option?
4. The women dragged off the plane, if one of them was the mother, and they were all in transit at the time, how did they get on their departure flight?

From a logical standpoint, this whole thing doesn't even make sense!

I don't think QR is at fault here. They would have been ordered to stop the plane by Qatari police and had no choice. I blame the head of security at the airport, the police or whoever was in charge of the investigation. And the first thing should have been to check the cameras, ask the cleaning staff to narrow down the timing, (last time the toilet was cleaned, was there blood on the floor)?

 

[NM]

What I heard was not an apology. It was a reason and what they think is an excuse. It does excuse them.

True that the word apology does not appear in the quote from the Qatari authorities. It does state " the State of Qatar regrets any distress or infringement on the personal freedoms of any traveller caused by this action".

Regret does not equal apology. But given the source of the quote, it is probably as close as will ever come.

 

[Mattg]

It seems Qatar has finally apologised for the incident.

Qatar finally apologises for genital examination incident

Qatar has finally apologised for the “distress or infringement” felt by women forced to undergo a genital examination at Hamad Airport.

australianaviation.com.au

Here's the full statement from Qatari government:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1321249951117045760

The word "sorry" or "apology" does not appear once.

 

[RooFlyer]

Except Qatar served alcohol, on the ground, in Doha, during Ramadan.

And QR served booze in Iranian airspace, up to the top of descent when all service stopped.

However alcohol is sold in the Dubai duty free?

And pork is served in the hotels (or the one I stayed at, at least).

The SMH is also reporting that the baby Girl was in a plastic bag with rubbish on top an an apparent attempt to conceal her. If this is accurate does this now make it an attempted murder investigation, and does this explain, or at least mitigate, the Qataris graceless actions, as all women in the appropriate demographic become potential suspects ?
I ask this as a question, not a statement.

Yes, the Qataris are framing it as attempted infanticide. I suspect this is post ipso facto justification but IF the circumstances are as described (and the key things on that is that there is a very new-born baby, abandoned and alive) then prima facie there's a case to investigate.

Someone asked, given there were 10 flights involved, if its been reported in overseas media. I checked the BBC yesterday and they were only reporting it as an Australian story. Just looked again now, and even with the new info, they are still reporting it only in the context of Australia.

Qatar to investigate 'invasive' exams of women at Doha airport

Australia has expressed anger over the airport incident which had aimed to check if women had given birth.

www.bbc.com

CNN is also only reporting it from an Australian context.

Women on Qatar flight received 'inappropriate' treatment after abandoned baby found at Doha Airport | CNN

A group of women on a recent Qatar Airways flight received "grossly inappropriate" treatment after an abandoned baby was discovered at Hamad International Airport, according to the Australian government.

edition.cnn.com

Ditto Washington Post:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/newssearch/?query=qatar&sort=Relevance&datefilter=All%20Since%202005

Isn't that odd?

 

[lonewolf]

When my family was migrating to Australia and going through the different process, my mum was asked to strip naked and "checked (prodded)" all over by an Australian official as part of a health check. None of us was ever informed or told this would occur till my mum came back outside.

To this day i dont know if thats the norm or not. My mum was shaken and disturbed by it and went to my dad and told him. My dad didnt know what to do as we werent sure if that was meant to happen or not.

 

[RAM]

I understand what you are saying but they railed against their Government and not a foreign entity. And any attempts to change a foreign entity let alone the basis of the spiritual belief? Because at the core of this is religion and religious interpretations.

Gandhi railed against the foreign Govt ruling India aka the British Govt.

But more specifically, actions taken by common people in one country can, do & have brought about change in others.

 

[prozac]

I am appalled.
Vote with your feet (wallets), Qatar off my list of carriers. Are they the only airline flying passengers into Australia atm?

 

[lonewolf]

Unfortunately that's what millions of Germans said after WW2.

Imagine if Martin Luther King had felt that way?
Gandhi?
Ruth Bader Ginsburg?

Or 4 women in NZ who changed the law in both NZ & Australia in the late 1960s/early 1970s when the wife & kids could be kicked out by the husband, given $20 and that was it?

If enough different 'one person' take a stand then even more can happen.

Apathy on the other hand is an all-too-easy cop-out.

Right to now the woman leaves whenever she wants and takes everything with her and the father has no rights?

 

[get me outta here]

This is Off Topic.

Right to now the woman leaves whenever she wants and takes everything with her and the father has no rights?

 

[lonewolf]

This is Off Topic.

It is if the post i was responding to is considered off topic too. Sometimes there are 2 sides for every argument. And there is a point where things are potentially done for good but taken too far and end up being just as bad.

 

[serfty]

[moderator hat]

Some posts are diverging from the topic. Please confine post/discussion to that specific to Qatar.

Fail to comply with this may lead to sanction.​

[/moderator hat]

 

[Pushka]

Gandhi railed against the foreign Govt ruling India aka the British Govt.

But more specifically, actions taken by common people in one country can, do & have brought about change in others.

It still involved his own government.

 

[lonewolf]

I think its a dangerous slope if we expect all countries / societies / cultures to fit our own. I know a lot of countries accuse American politics of interfering alot in other cultures. Probably the best we can do is if we dont agree with another country's politics is to not spend our hard earned cash there or to not even travel through that country. Having lived in a few countries before moving to Australia and having experienced Racism in a lot of forms. Australia has far less human rights issues than a lot of other countries and i would never want to visit or travel to some of the countries i had lived in previously.

 

[Guvner]

Given the women that I've seen quotes from claim they didn't know what was going on, I assume nobody bothered to simply ask them if it was their baby? Who knows what might have happened.