Avianca "Lifemiles" - Questions and Discussion

[bcworld]

re: Avianca "Life Miles" - New FF program in *A

Genuine question: how does USA immigration know it's a single ticket GUM-TPE-LAX vs two tickets GUM-TPE/TPE-LAX?

US immigration doesn't care. It's the operating airline who refuses to let you travel at check in - they are the ones that will get the $xx,xx_ fine!

 

[Flippantflyer]

re: Avianca "Life Miles" - New FF program in *A

US immigration doesn't care. It's the operating airline who refuses to let you travel at check in - they are the ones that will get the $xx,xx_ fine!

used to be able to fly MEL-PER via SIN I think.

 

[bcworld]

re: Avianca "Life Miles" - New FF program in *A

used to be able to fly MEL-PER via SIN I think.

You can. But if the operating carrier is say, SQ, the fare is constructed of two tickets end on end...or at least that's the explanation I saw on FT. You know LM will not be doing this.

 

[burmans]

re: Avianca "Life Miles" - New FF program in *A

I thought cabotage rules only applied between domestic destinations. Since SYD - BKK - PER would involve multiple flights with time on the ground in BKK in between (even if only in transit), I thought this would be acceptable. Is this not the case?

mrpooky.

I'm not sure of Aus Rules but in the GUM case the problem is US mainland to GUM are both domestic locations (via Asia) on the same airline and the same is true of SYD - PER via Asia. Sydney and Perth are domestic. I agree the more obvious rule is where you fly directly, i.e. UA flys SYD - MEL (and vv) and you can only do if you are flying in conjunction with an international flight. But the GUM experience suggests at least some people regard this as cabotage even if you go via an international point.

Reputedly its not cabotage if you actually stopover (>24 hours) but of course you can't do this with LM (and some others). Its also supposedly not cabotage if you fly different airlines for different legs.

 

[mrpooky]

re: Avianca "Life Miles" - New FF program in *A

Its also supposedly not cabotage if you fly different airlines for different legs.

Oooh, that's a good tip. Thank you!

mrpooky.

 

[_TheTraveller_]

re: Avianca "Life Miles" - New FF program in *A

If you've read much of this thread you'll realise it's not Trick It. It's by and large a useful discussion of no tricks good value LM redemptions.

When they talk about boomerangs they mean generally flying from an origin in one region, to a destination in the same (or similarly priced) region, but via a distant third region - without flying the last leg of course.

It may or may not be cabotage, that depends on the origin and destination country and airlines involved. However there are very good definitions of what cabotage is all about on the FT threads...look for posts by janetdoe. And yes, Australia has cabotage regs.

Yep. That's how felt about the thread. I just wanted to confirm what the rest have been echoing. I've read through about 100 pages on FT last night. So addictive. I appreciate the helpful community here but I don't mind what they're doing. And also, some of the pros might find LM to be a mediocre program that lacks value at the moment, as a noob, I'm intrigued by it!

Just a question. What is defined as a trick it? Do people just find bugs within the system eg: cabotage or c1-c2 via c3 and stay at c3 or mismarked pricing for tickets? or is it more subtle than that?

 

[burmans]

re: Avianca "Life Miles" - New FF program in *A

Oooh, that's a good tip. Thank you!

mrpooky.

The logic there is that a single airline does not have the right to just take you between two domestic destinations, but if there are two (or more) airlines each are transporting you internationally so not covered by Cabotage (but this is just what I have gleamed off the FT thread so others may disagree).

 

[burmans]

re: Avianca "Life Miles" - New FF program in *A

Just a question. What is defined as a trick it? Do people just find bugs within the system eg: cabotage or c1-c2 via c3 and stay at c3 or mismarked pricing for tickets? or is it more subtle than that?

Essentially any way to trick the system to get flights cheap, includes fuel dumps, missed legs etc.

 

[bcworld]

re: Avianca "Life Miles" - New FF program in *A

Its also supposedly not cabotage if you fly different airlines for different legs.

I think I'd disagree with that based on my current understanding. The foreign airline is allowed no part in your domestic ticket.

 

[bcworld]

re: Avianca "Life Miles" - New FF program in *A

Just a question. What is defined as a trick it? Do people just find bugs within the system eg: cabotage or c1-c2 via c3 and stay at c3 or mismarked pricing for tickets? or is it more subtle than that?

I think you're misunderstanding what cabotage is...it's not an opportunity to play the system, it is a problem...one that results in you getting denied travel when arriving at check in...you don't fly anywhere.

 

[_TheTraveller_]

re: Avianca "Life Miles" - New FF program in *A

I think you're misunderstanding what cabotage is...it's not an opportunity to play the system, it is a problem...one that results in you getting denied travel when arriving at check in...you don't fly anywhere.

ah sorry. I think I'm misusing the term. I know that cabotage means that fares like AAA-BBB-AAA2 gets you denied. I just wanted to understand when people book tickets like that, do they generally want to go to AAA2 or do they plan to drop the last segment? Or is it just for the ride?

 

[bcworld]

re: Avianca "Life Miles" - New FF program in *A

I just wanted to understand when people book tickets like that, do they generally want to go to AAA2 or do they plan to drop the last segment? Or is it just for the ride?

Any of the above. With LM, the throwaway ticketing is probably most common > going along for the ride > actually going to the ticketed destination.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

re: Avianca "Life Miles" - New FF program in *A

ah sorry. I think I'm misusing the term. I know that cabotage means that fares like AAA-BBB-AAA2 gets you denied. I just wanted to understand when people book tickets like that, do they generally want to go to AAA2 or do they plan to drop the last segment? Or is it just for the ride?

many are looking to book tickets subject to cabotage because they offer a better level of service than the alternative. For example GUM to USA is low in points cost, but involves flying on United domestic configuration first/business class. Not the full flat offerings which you might get on All Nippon or EVA Air.

They can't plan to drop the last segment because they won't be allowed to board at AAA.

 

[dajop]

re: Avianca "Life Miles" - New FF program in *A

Am not sure cabotage is strictly a trick it issue, i.e. you may genuinely want to travel SYD - SIN - PER using SQ. But have checked, no such option offered by LM so rather a moot point really.

That option has now been shutdown . I've done MEL-SIN-PER a couple times on SQ (well I've had a MEL-SIN-PER ticket a couple of times, but alas both times I had to change my plans mid-travel due to unforeseen circumstances that meant I couldn't take the SIN-PER sectors ) but it is no longer coming up as an option, even though MEL-SIN and SIN-PER are available.

 

[_TheTraveller_]

re: Avianca "Life Miles" - New FF program in *A

Any of the above. With LM, the throwaway ticketing is probably most common > going along for the ride > actually going to the ticketed destination.

many are looking to book tickets subject to cabotage because they offer a better level of service than the alternative. For example GUM to USA is low in points cost, but involves flying on United domestic configuration first/business class. Not the full flat offerings which you might get on All Nippon or EVA Air.

They can't plan to drop the last segment because they won't be allowed to board at AAA.

Thanks for the insights.

MEL - What do you mean they can't plan to drop the last segment? Eg: If I was going from C6-C3S and it routes me through C3N can't I get get off at C3N without checking in anything? (excluding cabotage)

Edit: Are there any associated risks with dropping the last seg? They could charge you the correct miles but has anyone had that done to them?

 

[bcworld]

re: Avianca "Life Miles" - New FF program in *A

MEL - What do you mean they can't plan to drop the last segment? Eg: If I was going from C6-C3S and it routes me through C3N can't I get get off at C3N without checking in anything? (excluding cabotage)

Here we go with the C's again! :-|

MEL is specifically talking about cabotage situations. Having said that, it appears that some airlines have detected the very high levels of throwaway ticketing on LM issued tickets at certain ports and are now acting on it. Of course if you have no bags, no one is going to march you onto the plane. However we might be getting to the point now that feedback makes it way back to LM.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

re: Avianca "Life Miles" - New FF program in *A

Thanks for the insights.

MEL - What do you mean they can't plan to drop the last segment? Eg: If I was going from C6-C3S and it routes me through C3N can't I get get off at C3N without checking in anything? (excluding cabotage)

Edit: Are there any associated risks with dropping the last seg? They could charge you the correct miles but has anyone had that done to them?

if your proposed ticket included a route subject to cabotage, you couldn't plan to drop the last segment to avoid the cabotage rule.

you wouldn't be allowed to board at your point of origin, so therefore won't get the opportunity to 'drop' the last segment.

for example... LAX-TPE-GUM, they won't let you board in LAX, so 'planning to drop' TPE-GUM is a moot point.

 

[burmans]

re: Avianca "Life Miles" - New FF program in *A

I think I'd disagree with that based on my current understanding. The foreign airline is allowed no part in your domestic ticket.

Will have to take your word for it, my reason for mentioning was that there were report of success on FT on the basis of different airlines (but yes I do realise getting lucky doesnt mean its allowed). Given LM doesnt offer any viable options to us in OZ have't investigated it any further. I would have thought it was the responsibility of the issuing airline to get it right if this was the case though.

 

[burmans]

re: Avianca "Life Miles" - New FF program in *A

if your proposed ticket included a route subject to cabotage, you couldn't plan to drop the last segment to avoid the cabotage rule.

you wouldn't be allowed to board at your point of origin, so therefore won't get the opportunity to 'drop' the last segment.

for example... LAX-TPE-GUM, they won't let you board in LAX, so 'planning to drop' TPE-GUM is a moot point.

I think there is some talking at cross purposes here, wasnt he talking C6-C3N-C3S which is not cabotage?

 

[_TheTraveller_]

re: Avianca "Life Miles" - New FF program in *A

I think there is some talking at cross purposes here, wasnt he talking C6-C3N-C3S which is not cabotage?

I believe he was responding under the previous context. All good