Booking extra full fare ticket to block seats / upgrades

[thecatinthehat]

I assume you’re traveling under your name / FF number. It wouldn’t take much hassle for VA to see that you regularly benefit from last-minute cancellations.

I suppose. I don't think they care enough or check tbh. I'm not even talking about the same name, airlines run a housekeeping process nightly to cancel same name bookings and implausible bookings so this needs to be done in another pax name (partner etc).

I don't think it's a "dog" move. It's merely utilising the system within the operational parameters.

Nope. I’d say opposite

The opposite? As in it would be more likely someone would be sitting next to me? I highly doubt it. If you wanted to push it extra close, you could just cancel right after check-in closes. Meaning everyone would already have their seat, and the probability would be low. Even more so if you bought multiple seats to hedge your bets.

LIke I said before this is more of a "what if" sort of question. Certainly an interesting exercise in thought.

 

[Quickstatus]

what if" sort of question

Sure, but it seems you already have your mind made up re the answer to your question. So why ask it in the first place?

 

[Austman]

There have been some very notable examples on FF websites where these sorts of tactics have been used.

If done too often it can actually end in jail time.

So be a bit careful when playing the fraud game. Because, it seems, that's what some courts have decided it is.

 

[thecatinthehat]

Jail time? Please spare me the melodrama. I’d like to see a single example of this.

Wouldn’t classify this as fraud either. As I posited earlier I’m not even sure this would come to the attention of the airline.

 

[Austman]

Jail time?

Yes. It's happened.

It might not come to the attention of an airline if it's done infrequently. But repeat it too often and you can be in trouble.

Your intention is basically to defraud an airline of a saleable seat.

Seems it's illegal.

 

[jb747]

Staff or an upgrade. It wouldn't be empty.

 

[Matty F]

I don't think it's a "dog" move. It's merely utilising the system within the operational parameters.

Have you thought about maybe switching to Qantas?

 

[thecatinthehat]

Have you thought about maybe switching to Qantas?

All jokes aside, I wish there was a decent third carrier in Australia.

Last QF J flight -- no pillows "covid", no blankets "covid", cabin crew treated us like inmates. Slop on a tray table. May I have spirits? no -- "covid". I know the spirits are back now but the airline as a whole has circled the drain. I guess that's what happens when you gut it from the inside.

 

[Must...Fly!]

All jokes aside, I wish there was a decent third carrier in Australia.

Last QF J flight -- no pillows "covid", no blankets "covid", cabin crew treated us like inmates. Slop on a tray table. May I have spirits? no -- "covid". I know the spirits are back now but the airline as a whole has circled the drain. I guess that's what happens when you gut it from the inside.

Really don't get your opinion here.

I mean, the one on QF I do but VA is a very good decent second carrier. And all you seem to want to do is book fares and cancel them for a refund so you have a spare seat next to you? I'm just confused as to what exactly you want from a travel experience.

Have you ever considered a private jet, it would probably satisfy your requirements?

 

[JohnM]

a long (4 hour flight)

You consider a 4h flight to be a long flight?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

As long as you aren't checked in it doesn't count as a noshow I've already checked with Virgin and Qantas.... At least for full-fare Y and J during these "covid" times.

There is something called "Speculative bookings" which applies to travel agents but not end customers as far as I can see.

‘speculative’ and ‘impossible bookings’ are frowned upon when made by passengers as well… not just agents.

They are in part why airlines overbook.

You won’t be the first to have thought of this, and the fact that people don’t do it all the time is because airlines have ways of identifying it and managing it.

If you were caught… IP address, credit card used, etc, you could have your velocity account cancelled, or even be liable for damages against the airline for lost revenue.

 

[madrooster]

This may be controversial but hear me out.

Has anyone booked a full fare J seat (say in their partners name etc and cancelled just before boarding) just to leave the seat open next to them?

Given the cancellation policies on full fare J with VA are very liberal, I'm thinking about doing this for a long (4 hour flight) to have peace and quiet.

The other situation where this would be useful is to ensure an upgrade goes through -- for an extreme example booking 4 seats and cancelling 24 hours out essentially guaranteeing an upgrade if you are Platinum or using UpgradeMe given the cabin would be more or less empty.

The majority VA/QF staff have space available upgrade rights on staff travel so if the flight is busy, the cabin will be filled. I've seen this at both QF and VA.

Even if you bought a second ticket and let the ticket lapse / don't get a refund as a no show to block the seat until the last minute, they'll still fill the seat as your second "passenger" will be a no show and not checked in at T-30m, so they'll offload that "passenger" and give the seat to standbys just before the flight closes. It's an expensive way to throw away money and achieve nothing.

In fact, by blocking that seat from being sold as a commercial seat, you run the risk of having more staff in the cabin and it potentially turns into even more of a staff reunion. If that were to happen, then you've thrown away a heap of money and only caused more misery for yourself.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

J on a VA 737-800 is not bad, good enough that 1 seat, is enough, seriously.
And if you are flying an ATR72, if VA still flies them, comfort seat booking will suffice, no taxes levied on the "friends" seat, only yours.
But if you want to book and cancel, and make it work, you have to book the 2 on separate (separate PNRs) bookings, and then make sure to cancel the "other pax".
Ie, VTRXYY is one PNR, and QTEUUR as another, (VA do not use numericals)...
So if you or when you cancel QTEUUR, you will still have VTRXYY to yourself.
If you cancel on the same booking for one pax not travelling, you have a chance of cancelling the whole trip..
Unless its an A320 that VA still use, I would not book 2 J seats for 1 pax.
Just one seat is enough.
If its an A320, as they use on ADL - PER, then a phone up to VA bookings and ask for a comfort seat booking, and you will pay the seats for 2, but not the taxes for the friend.
You will need to phone up though, they will ask if its for a "musical instrument", just say no, that you want the 2 seats for yourself, the Philippino call centre staff are usually quite good in this, have done it once.
Or just book econX on their B737, there is econX on the A320, though.

 

[HS-TQE]

ATRs have long gone from VA, the ATRs were being phased out before the Bain takeover with only a handful left for mostly CBR services. COVID simply sped that up.

 

[thecatinthehat]

You consider a 4h flight to be a long flight?

Long enough not to sit in economy.

Anyways I'm going to try this next week. I'll let you guys know when I'm out on bail. Will cancel at T -30 min. Just an east coast flight so nothing too long.

For all those waxing poetic about breaking the law, there is nothing illegal about this. It's a civil matter at most for breach of contract if it could even be proven.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Long enough not to sit in economy.

Anyways I'm going to try this next week. I'll let you guys know when I'm out on bail. Will cancel at T -30 min. Just an east coast flight so nothing too long.

For all those waxing poetic about breaking the law, there is nothing illegal about this. It's a civil matter at most for breach of contract if it could even be proven.

I’m not so confident it is only a civil breach.

It’s potentially an intent to defraud, obtain something by deception, or cause financial loss.

The sole purpose of your seat purchase and subsequent cancellation at the last minute is so that you can benefit by having a spare seat beside you, or in some of the other circumstances being discussed, getting an upgrade that a person would not have got if the seat had been sold.

that it is being done with intent actually makes it worse.

Airlines are on top of yield management like a kid on a cupcake. Not that hard to check IP addresses or forms of payment. Or, if you did it twice, to put two and two together. Half the cabin cancelling 30 minutes before the flight? Could be a flag.

 

[jase05]

So why bother asking the question if you are just going to do it anyway?
Id be surprised if the seat is vacant TBH

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

So why bother asking the question if you are just going to do it anyway?
Id be surprised if the seat is vacant TBH

Even if it’s a ‘success’…..what does that prove???

 

[Must...Fly!]

So why bother asking the question if you are just going to do it anyway?
Id be surprised if the seat is vacant TBH

Pure ego boost

Imagine how big the OP's head could be if they flew around in a Gulfstream

However given they're seeking to get a spare seat next to them for nothing (for reasons that not clear at all). I dare say it's a bit beyond the financial realms of possibility.

I guess you could always buy an xbox and play flight simulator

 

[TMP]

I doubt this will work, and repeat offences will end badly I suspect.

But mainly just wanted to say that this thread is *chef's kiss* popcorn-worthy!