Building a stronger Qantas

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Why is QFi doing so badly?

Well I would guess it has something to do withthe following. I am am a WP, PG, LTG with over 28000 LTSC's. I used to fly J exclusively on QF overseas and trans con domestic. REcently I have been flying DJ, EK, and NZ (not so much the latter anymore).

I want to go to MAN in MArch next year (+ Mrs Reggie and Reggie Jnr)
With Qantas, i can do the following
PER-SIN-LHR-MAN on points (classic) approx 400000points and wait for it :shock: $3000 in taxes:shock:
If I decide to pay cash for the same flights $6429.49 (approximately:cool:)

Now using another premium airline we know as SQ
PER-SIN-MAN is a grand total of $6009.00 and takes 3 hours less with no having to go through LHR

Using a third option we know as EK
PER-DBX-MAN is a grand total of $5796.68 and takes 5 hours less with no LHR.

Using my fourth option DJ
Well lets not go there, I ain't flying via SYD/MEL to get to MAN, no matter how good there priority boarding is for me as a gold.

What do I miss by saving myself time, money and going throuh LHR - lounge access, and with only 2 hours, I can't eat, drink, or shower that value.

As a premium pax I don't feel that QF is a premium airline, and don't think they are treating me as a premium customer. ($3000 in taxes/fines to use my points to fly to MAN is plane [yes I deliberatly spelt it this way] robbery.

You highlight the reason for the decline so well. However how do they fix it? The answer is they can't. There is no way that Qantas can offer the multitude of destinations it's Asian and ME competitors can offer towards Europe, except by greater use of partners.

The problem with partners of course is one of their existing partners is at the far end of Europe, meaning you need to stop twice to get to anywhere but London or Frankfurt and in most cases change terminals at that horrid place known as Heathrow. At least with MAS joining there are a few more destinations in Europe that can be added to the list with 1 stop.

Is this situation Qantas's fault? Well not really, the blame lies with geography for placing Australia in the middle of nowhere, meaning we are not a natural hub location for anywhere, and blame it on the aircraft makers for making planes that can now fly so much further, meaning people want less stops, so tend to choose airlines that can realistically offer that.

However in Asia the situations is a tad different as it is closer to home. So aligning with MAS and creating their own new airline means people will now have a choice of flying a Qantas partner to more destinations in Asia, which is a growing economy, so plenty of growth too. It would be even better if they could sort their issues with Cathay out for better access to North asia.
 
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However in Asia the situations is a tad different as it is closer to home. So aligning with MAS and creating their own new airline means people will now have a choice of flying a Qantas partner to more destinations in Asia, which is a growing economy, so plenty of growth too. It would be even better if they could sort their issues with Cathay out for better access to North asia.

Merging with another carrier would probably be the best option, but probably not one that is politically possible. Creating a new JV airline with another party, sounds like a Plan B, but it probably has some legs. It will be interesting to watch this develop over the coming years.
 
I agree with Joyce - people forget Ansett very easily. It was not the government that brought them down, it was thier own mismanagement. If QF does nothing, they will be in the same boat.

Agree with you about the 1000 jobs - the media seized on that are misinterpreted it big time. Losing 4 aircraft means you don't need those crews, the engineers to service them etc.

The media's coverage has been ordinary but so has the commentary about it - ironically the people in the papers who are most vocal about the 1000 jobs are the same people who never fly with the airline. You can't have it both ways - the ones who should comment are the sharehodlers and the frequent flyers.

You could also argue that it was Ansetts staff that brought down the airline, by being too costly to be able to compete with the new entrants. 3 crew 767's for example. Though do concede in the case of Ansett ownership by News Limited hurt, they had no real interest in running an airline, just raping it during the 2 airline policy age.
 
I very much agree based on the quarterly update that was released recently as well. Qantas airline profit grew much more than Jetstar's.

Was that the update that had the one off compensation payment from Rolls Royce in it?
 
No Y+ in A330 because JQ dont do Y+, and they are are dual airline aircraft, like the 787, AJ has already stated his preference for new aircraft that can swap between JQ and QF at will.

The thread in the last couple of pages has been talking about service.
Well it's not all about cabin service, but that helps. QF should consider the possible outcomes if CX adds Y+ to their A330s serving BNE and PER. Note currently: CX @ PER 10/week QF @ PER 3/week :shock: Remember exHKG are 7+ hour red-eye flights. Also QF shouldn't complain about long haul flights being underutilized when the connecting flights are under serviced. BNE/PER/DRW -> HKG when MEL/SYD will preferentially use SIN for LHR connections.

I appreciate Red Roo's answer to Capt Paul re: PER-NRT. Not because I expected a different answer, but that the answer was straight-forward. Pity PER-HKG-NRT with full traffic rights is not available (or considered) Might even be useful for exSYD passengers.

But Red Roo, I have asked questions where a simple answer would be very much appreciated.

Is the new Asian airline going to be an affiliate with the One World Alliance?
And secondarily, will QF codes shares on Jetstar group flights ever be able to credit to OW partners (accepting the same terms as being able to credit to QF) ?

Thanks

Fred
 
But Red Roo, I have asked questions where a simple answer would be very much appreciated.

Is the new Asian airline going to be an affiliate with the One World Alliance?
And secondarily, will QF codes shares on Jetstar group flights ever be able to credit to OW partners (accepting the same terms as being able to credit to QF) ?

Thanks

Fred

and also for red roo to answer, how are any of us going to be able to buy tickets when we have to show up within 2 days with our credit cards at the local office??

there is, according to qantas, no way around this requirement for china.
 
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What was the source, because the press release about the A320 order and Jetstar Japan make it clear the a/c will be A320's so clearly not coming from the Qantas fleet. I would imagine some seed units would come from Jetstar though.

http://www.australianfrequentflyer....ng-a-stronger-qantas-32271-43.html#post476815

Was that the update that had the one off compensation payment from Rolls Royce in it?

I'm not sure, the last half update and some of the figures posted on here. You replied to the thread.
 
I still maintain JQ are not as successful as people make out, at least when it comes to getting bums on seats, for instance in May the seat utilisation makes for interesting reading

[TABLE="width: 475"]
[TR]
[TD]Scheduled Operator[/TD]
[TD]Service to/from[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Seat[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Utilisation %[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Hawaiian Airlines[/TD]
[TD]USA[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]87[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Air Canada[/TD]
[TD]Canada[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]85[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]V Australia[/TD]
[TD]ALL SERVICES[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]81[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Delta Air Lines[/TD]
[TD]USA[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]80[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Eva Air[/TD]
[TD]Taiwan[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]78[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Air China[/TD]
[TD]China[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]77[/TD]
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[TD]Air New Zealand[/TD]
[TD]New Zealand[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]77[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Etihad Airways[/TD]
[TD]United Arab Emirates[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]77[/TD]
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[TR]
[TD]Tiger Airways[/TD]
[TD]Singapore[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]76[/TD]
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[TD]United Airlines[/TD]
[TD]USA[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]76[/TD]
[/TR]
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[TD]Jetstar Asia[/TD]
[TD]Singapore[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]76[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]British Airways[/TD]
[TD]UK[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]75[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Malaysia Airlines[/TD]
[TD]Malaysia[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]74[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]China Eastern Airlines[/TD]
[TD]China[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]74[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Qantas Airways[/TD]
[TD]ALL SERVICES[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]74[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Air Caledonie[/TD]
[TD]New Caledonia[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]73[/TD]
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[TD]AirAsia X[/TD]
[TD]Malaysia[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]72[/TD]
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[TD]South African Airways[/TD]
[TD]South Africa[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]72[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Air Pacific[/TD]
[TD]Fiji[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]71[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Jetstar[/TD]
[TD]ALL SERVICES[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]70[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]China Airlines[/TD]
[TD]ALL SERVICES[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]69[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Singapore Airlines[/TD]
[TD]ALL SERVICES[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]68[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Korean Air[/TD]
[TD]Korea[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]68[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]LAN Airlines[/TD]
[TD]Chile[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]67[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Continental Micronesia[/TD]
[TD]Guam[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]67[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Cathay Pacific Airways[/TD]
[TD]Hong Kong (SAR)[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]65[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Pacific Blue[/TD]
[TD]ALL SERVICES[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]65[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Qatar Airways[/TD]
[TD]Qatar[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]63[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Asiana Airlines[/TD]
[TD]Korea[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]63[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Philippine Airlines[/TD]
[TD]Philippines[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]62[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Vietnam Airlines (e)[/TD]
[TD]Vietnam[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]60[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Garuda Indonesia[/TD]
[TD]Indonesia[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]59[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Indonesia AirAsia[/TD]
[TD]Indonesia[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]59[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]China Southern Airlines[/TD]
[TD]China[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]59[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Strategic Airlines[/TD]
[TD]ALL SERVICES[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]59[/TD]
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[TD]Aerolineas Argentinas[/TD]
[TD]Argentina[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]58[/TD]
[/TR]
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[TD]Airlines PNG[/TD]
[TD]Papua New Guinea[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]57[/TD]
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[TD]Thailand[/TD]
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[TD="align: right"]56[/TD]
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[TD]ALL SERVICES[/TD]
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[TD]Mauritius[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]54[/TD]
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[TD]UK[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]51[/TD]
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[TD]Japan Airlines[/TD]
[TD]Japan[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]50[/TD]
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[TD]Solomon Airlines[/TD]
[TD]Solomon Islands[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]49[/TD]
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[TD]Polynesian Blue[/TD]
[TD]Western Samoa[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]49[/TD]
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[TD]Royal Brunei Airlines[/TD]
[TD]Brunei[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]49[/TD]
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[TD]Air Vanuatu[/TD]
[TD]Vanuatu[/TD]
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[TD="align: right"]47[/TD]
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[TD]China[/TD]
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[TD]Papua New Guinea[/TD]
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Some of those differences (eg between QF and Emirates) must go a long way to offsetting some of the cost differences.
 
No Y+ in A330 because JQ dont do Y+, and they are are dual airline aircraft, like the 787, AJ has already stated his preference for new aircraft that can swap between JQ and QF at will.

Paint them white with the tail having a red roo jumping over an orange star. "QanStar - the Spirit of Austasia" :mrgreen:
 
and also for red roo to answer, how are any of us going to be able to buy tickets when we have to show up within 2 days with our credit cards at the local office??

there is, according to qantas, no way around this requirement for china.

yes, same requirement for travel out of Philippines on QF but not on JQ! Can someone explain this please??
 
But Red Roo, I have asked questions where a simple answer would be very much appreciated.

Is the new Asian airline going to be an affiliate with the One World Alliance?
And secondarily, will QF codes shares on Jetstar group flights ever be able to credit to OW partners (accepting the same terms as being able to credit to QF) ?

Thanks

Fred
It would be great if the new airline was an OW affiliate but I would think those discussions are a way off.

However QF codeshares on JQ can be credited to some OW partner's FF schemes now-in fact from 1st Feb this year.All the multi continent(apart from Circle Atlantic)OW fares have this clause at the bottom-
7. Initially itineraries with Jetstar (JQ) segments can only be ticketed by oneworld carriers that have interline agreements with the airline - American Airlines, Cathay Pacific, Finnair, Japan Airlines, LAN, Qantas and Royal Jordanian. Plans are being developed to extend the arrangement to itineraries being ticketed by other oneworld member airlines. Members of oneworld airline frequent flyer programmes can earn mileage rewards on eligible Qantas-coded Jetstar flights using these fares once their frequent flyer programme host airline has implemented interline links with Jetstar. Currently, this applies to American Airlines, Cathay Pacific, Finnair, Japan Airlines, LAN, Qantas and Royal Jordanian, please contact your frequent flyer programme for more details.
 
and also for red roo to answer, how are any of us going to be able to buy tickets when we have to show up within 2 days with our credit cards at the local office??

there is, according to qantas, no way around this requirement for china.
'

This MAY be a requirement for foreign operators out of China with tickets bought in china. If Qantas establish an airline there, then there definitely wouldn't be a need for this. And just like buying tickets today in AU, we can buy return tickets to Beijing in Sydney without having to visit an office and showing our credit card.

Surely this question is a wait and see type question instead of asking Red Roo to answer now.

Red Roo, personally, thanks for the dialogue established between AFFers and Qantas. Many of us are grateful for the information that you provide directly even if we don't comment upon it more often.
 
'

This MAY be a requirement for foreign operators out of China with tickets bought in china. If Qantas establish an airline there, then there definitely wouldn't be a need for this. And just like buying tickets today in AU, we can buy return tickets to Beijing in Sydney without having to visit an office and showing our credit card.

Surely this question is a wait and see type question instead of asking Red Roo to answer now.

Red Roo, personally, thanks for the dialogue established between AFFers and Qantas. Many of us are grateful for the information that you provide directly even if we don't comment upon it more often.

no - this is a question for now, because even if they establish in china, then we can't buy tickets in Thailand or the Philippines....

if this is going to be a premium airline based in Asia, they they must be expecting a lot of origin traffic from those ports.

on a rolling basis that's going to mean hundreds of passengers each day queuing at airline offices.

this needs to be addressed now because it is a deal breaker. if you can't ticket, then you can't have an airline. or is qantas going to spend millions setting up the new airline only to find at the last minute they can sell tickets?

it amazes me that the credit card laws apply only to qantas. no other airline is affected by qantas' claim that this is the law of Thailand/china. if qantas is going to continue to be affected by this law, on a singular basis, it really does scupper any plans for an airline.

I am also wanting to know that if qantas can make arrangements for their new airline to ticket without having to show a credit card, why haven't they been able to do it far? and why have I paid hundreds of dollars on fees to book by phone via the qantas call centre in Australia and qantas refusing to refund the fees because they claim it is the law?

they cannot have it both ways.
 
no - this is a question for now, because even if they establish in china, then we can't buy tickets in Thailand or the Philippines....

if this is going to be a premium airline based in Asia, they they must be expecting a lot of origin traffic from those ports.

on a rolling basis that's going to mean hundreds of passengers each day queuing at airline offices.

this needs to be addressed now because it is a deal breaker. if you can't ticket, then you can't have an airline. or is qantas going to spend millions setting up the new airline only to find at the last minute they can sell tickets?

it amazes me that the credit card laws apply only to qantas. no other airline is affected by qantas' claim that this is the law of Thailand/china. if qantas is going to continue to be affected by this law, on a singular basis, it really does scupper any plans for an airline.

I am also wanting to know that if qantas can make arrangements for their new airline to ticket without having to show a credit card, why haven't they been able to do it far? and why have I paid hundreds of dollars on fees to book by phone via the qantas call centre in Australia and qantas refusing to refund the fees because they claim it is the law?

they cannot have it both ways.

Agree with you 100%, many times I have booked flights out of Philippines on Jetstar or SQ using credit card from Australia with no problems but Qantas insist that you need to present CC at their office in Manila within 2 days. I would much rather fly direct to Aus with Qantas but I have no choice!
 
no - this is a question for now, because even if they establish in china, then we can't buy tickets in Thailand or the Philippines....

They will be able to manage it. You can buy tickets for Jetstar Asia from Shantou (China), Hong Kong, Philippines, Thailand etc, and even the 100% Australian owned JQi from Thailand ... so I am sure the new airline will be able to. Qantas chooses not to for whatever reason. (And they wonder why they need to axe BKK & HKG - LHR services???)
 
if this is going to be a premium airline based in Asia, they they must be expecting a lot of origin traffic from those ports.

Not necessarily, in the hub and spoke arrangement all the hub really needs to be is in a convenient location. It does not need to be a location where pax will come from, it just needs to be in a good position for flights going A-B-C. There are a few hubs for different airlines in the US where the sized airport is completely disproportionate to the sized city, but it's still really busy because it's a hub for the airline.

What will probably happen is loads of feeder flights from AU ports into the chosen city, and then flights from the chosen city out to loads of other destinations in both Asia and Europe. You'll probably have relatively few pax from the chosen city itself actually using the service. (as they will use incumbent \ state airlines)
 
Not necessarily, in the hub and spoke arrangement all the hub really needs to be is in a convenient location. It does not need to be a location where pax will come from, it just needs to be in a good position for flights going A-B-C. There are a few hubs for different airlines in the US where the sized airport is completely disproportionate to the sized city, but it's still really busy because it's a hub for the airline.

What will probably happen is loads of feeder flights from AU ports into the chosen city, and then flights from the chosen city out to loads of other destinations in both Asia and Europe. You'll probably have relatively few pax from the chosen city itself actually using the service. (as they will use incumbent \ state airlines)

this doesn't make sense.

if they were going to do that they could just keep the qantas name and base planes in the hub city. there is no need to set up a new airline to do that.

what on earth is the point flying qantas syd-hkg and then transferring to Lotus Roo(t) Airlines for my connection? I might as well just stay on qantas and downguage from a large to a small plane.

there is no us airline that changes airline name in a hub for premium mainline service. it would be like suggesting AA set up an new airline to fly flights east of ord and dfw.
 
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