Building a stronger Qantas

[ajw373]

Yes not Australian, only 49% owned by Qantas. How many things are 100% from a certain country. Holden or Ford? Vegemite? Tim Tams?

If this allows Qantas to make a better profit for it's Australian shareholders, improve destinations for current QFFers and can feed decent traffic into Qantas' domestic network (staffed by Australians)... then what's the problem? It's taking these measures to arrest the declining share of the market of international travellers. Good on them. If they don't do anything, then they're eventually stuffed (internationally).

Foreign owned airlines operating in foreign countries start to run into traffic rights issues, so not surprising the new entity will only be 49% owned, just like Jetstar Asia.

 

[goldy]

Well Jetconnect is a NZ based airline, that is owned by Qantas and uses the Qantas name

You can add to that that it is also an airline that is used to dupe australians into paying more for a service they think is australian when it in fact isnt. the cost savings achieved by using NZ based crew is solely used to line the pockets of qantas as in not reflected in "better value" airfares.

This same model will no doubt be used by "qantasia". It will be established overseas and like an undetectable cancer, slowly start to spread its tendrils into australian ports and take over mainline routes. As has been mentioned before, the name of the game (IMO) is to rid qantas of its expensive australian staff and replace them with foreigners or locals stupid enough to work for half the pay!

 

[Ric]

locals stupid enough to work for half the pay!

That's a strong statement!!
Half the pay could be the equivalent of 1.5X, 2X, 3X or 5X of the average pay that you can get locally.
Or it could be being employed or not being employed.
or it could be........ you get my drift.....??

 

[drron]

Not sure if already been reported (thread is getting a bit long) but there is interview with AJ:KGB: Alan Joyce | Kohler, Gottliebsen, Bartholomeusz | Interview | Business Spectator

I thought this part of the interview interesting-certainly seems SIN or KUL being the Asian hub.
Well, there

are a number of logical bases. Singapore is one given that we have this huge Jetstar operation that’s extremely successful. In addition, we have our big international long haul hub there now and where our flights to Frankfurt and to London and the A380s going through. But what’s happening in KL is also interesting because Tony Fernandes who we’ve had a long-term relationship with and work closely together in Jetstar and with Air Asia, is now a large shareholder in a Malaysian airline. He is one part of a five-man executive team that’s looking at a transformation of Malaysian Airlines and we are in dialogue with Tony about how we could work closer together – Qantas, Malaysian, Jetstar and Air Asia, so that is a potential opportunity as well. So we’re not closing the door on any of these options because they are both very, very interesting.

 

[tallboy]

The Airpoints system works with AirNZ flights in that that you pay the fare part with "Air Points Dollars" (

).

If on *A partners, see here: Star Reward Redemption - Flight Rewards - Spending Airpoints*Dollars - Airpoints - Air*New*Zealand - Australia Site

FWIW,

1 ~worth 1000 QFF points.

So, either way, very poor value for redemptions. For me it's about status and upgrades (which are better value)

While we are drifting 'slightly' OT into this area:

Next month I am voting with my feet and will start doing some international J class flying via a Swiss *A ticket (partially a result of recent WP 'enhancements' and partially a result of price, which is much lower than ow for the required itinerary (MEL-JNB-Europe-HKG-MEL).

For those who regularly put credits and points toward the opposition, which *A program do you think will provide the quickest rise in status and benefits?

I am a BD Diamond Club member, but don't have a lot of points or status with them and (is it just me, or...?) to be honest I find their scheme and FF account management to be less than user friendly.

Any suggestions welcome.

Apologies for the OT drift...

 

[farmer]

Hi All,
A quote from Business Spectator today:


"Recently, my husband and I flew to Wellington on Qantas and realised very quickly that it was a Qantas flight in name only.
There were no Aussie accents among the staff and some of the accents over the intercom were so thick none of the passengers knew what was being said.
Oddly, this pseudo-Qantas made me feel slightly unsafe – and I don’t usually feel unsettled on airlines from other countries. I think it was because I had bought one thing but been sold another, and when we feel deceived we lose confidence.
No doubt, financial realities may dictate that some routes are outsourced to other organisations. But Qantas needs to understand that the ripple effect of this can be wide, unpredictable and have serious, long-term impact on the brand. My advice would be to be absolutely open and honest about what you are doing and why you are doing it. We will not forgive you if you try to pull the wool. "

This is the probelm with "Building a Stronger Qantas". That is not what is happening! They may be buidling stronger returns for shareholders, a broader suite of offshore based and staffed airlines, but not a stronger Qantas Internationally and Domestically if you look at the investment patterns. Older planes , no new planes, fewer routes.

Red Roo. Stop the spin. We have figured out for ourselves what is really happening!!

Farmer

 

[wandersen]

Just received:

At Qantas, we are transforming our international business to ensure we are the best premium airline for your international business and leisure travel. As a result of this transformation, we are making changes to flights between Hong Kong, Bangkok and London, and Australia and Buenos Aires. We will progressively be making changes from Monday 22 August 2011.

As you have a booking with us on one of these routes for travel after 24 March 2012, we will notify you in the coming weeks of the process for rebooking onto alternative flights which will get you to your destination as planned.

We are committed to flying you wherever you want to go across the globe in comfort, style and ease, with the best frequencies and connections and with more opportunities to earn and redeem Frequent Flyer points than ever before.

Thank you for your understanding. Qantas will be in contact with you in the coming weeks to discuss your booking.

 

[drron]

Hi All,
A quote from Business Spectator today:


"Recently, my husband and I flew to Wellington on Qantas and realised very quickly that it was a Qantas flight in name only.
There were no Aussie accents among the staff and some of the accents over the intercom were so thick none of the passengers knew what was being said.
Oddly, this pseudo-Qantas made me feel slightly unsafe – and I don’t usually feel unsettled on airlines from other countries. I think it was because I had bought one thing but been sold another, and when we feel deceived we lose confidence.
No doubt, financial realities may dictate that some routes are outsourced to other organisations. But Qantas needs to understand that the ripple effect of this can be wide, unpredictable and have serious, long-term impact on the brand. My advice would be to be absolutely open and honest about what you are doing and why you are doing it. We will not forgive you if you try to pull the wool. "

This is the probelm with "Building a Stronger Qantas". That is not what is happening! They may be buidling stronger returns for shareholders, a broader suite of offshore based and staffed airlines, but not a stronger Qantas Internationally and Domestically if you look at the investment patterns. Older planes , no new planes, fewer routes.

Red Roo. Stop the spin. We have figured out for ourselves what is really happening!!

Farmer

Really!So Kiwis are not as good as Aussies.
All this is going to do is give the All Blacks greater motivation to slaughter us in the World cup-and they dont need it.

 

[harvyk]

Really!So Kiwis are not as good as Aussies.
All this is going to do is give the All Blacks greater motivation to slaughter us in the World cup-and they dont need it.

No, kiwis are pretty good about air safety as well, but remember that Qantas brand I keep harping on about, in the mind of the average pax "Qantas = Aussie" which means best in world because we said so.... It's as much part of their brand as the kangaroo, and you certainly remember the furore when QF dared change "Our Qantas Logo", even if it was just slightly and more for technical reasons to get around no painting area's on the A380.

 

[goldy]

That's a strong statement!!
Half the pay could be the equivalent of 1.5X, 2X, 3X or 5X of the average pay that you can get locally.
Or it could be being employed or not being employed.
or it could be........ you get my drift.....??

let me clarify my point by stating that any new local hires will be employed on much lower salaries. This is what I meant by working for half the pay. This was highlighted by AJ's comments that any "forced redundancy" pilots will be offered jobs with JQ on the JQ award which is probably less than half of their current QF salary. Why doesn't AJ and lead by example by halving his rumored take home pay from $20 million to $10 million (total remuneration). Somehow I dont think he'll struggle as much as an FA that is now working for little more than McDonald's wages. I really dont know how anyone thinks people can survive in our major cities earning so little money. A friend of mine who just got a JQ pilot cadet ship told me hed be paid NZ33,000 converted to AUD at the current rate. I asked "what, per month??" how can this poor bugger pay off his student loans exceeding 100k and live in melbourne where a shoebox flat costs you 300K?. We need to pay a fair wage commensurate with our costs of living.

 

[chonetsao.co.uk]

Following the market movement last few weeks. Can I speculate:

Malaysia Airlines will split its business into two:
1>, Long haul and midium haul concetrated airline using the old name of Malaysia Airlines with a mixed fleet of B747, B777 and A330.
2>, Its smaller Firefly will completely take over all short hual fleet and domestic routes plus some Southeast Asian routes.
3>, Spinn of the Firefly thus Malaysia Airlines will be the holding company for both MH and Firefly

Qantas will pour in cash and aircraft to support Firefly expansion. Possible change the company name. Air Asia will also have shares of the new company through its shareholding in MH. So the new Firefly (whatever the name would be) will have MH, QF and AK as major shareholders (thus no problem with anti compitition issue within Malaysia government). If that happens the new QF Asia new premium company would be hubbed in KUL and secondary hub in BKI and SIN.

Would that happen? Discuss.

 

[chonetsao.co.uk]

Will we now earn 100% of the miles between London and Hong Kong on BA in Y fares since QF will pull out??

 

[samh004]

"Recently, my husband and I flew to Wellington on Qantas and realised very quickly that it was a Qantas flight in name only.
There were no Aussie accents among the staff and some of the accents over the intercom were so thick none of the passengers knew what was being said.
Oddly, this pseudo-Qantas made me feel slightly unsafe – and I don’t usually feel unsettled on airlines from other countries. I think it was because I had bought one thing but been sold another, and when we feel deceived we lose confidence.
No doubt, financial realities may dictate that some routes are outsourced to other organisations. But Qantas needs to understand that the ripple effect of this can be wide, unpredictable and have serious, long-term impact on the brand. My advice would be to be absolutely open and honest about what you are doing and why you are doing it. We will not forgive you if you try to pull the wool."

That quote only suggests to me that the OP is probably someone that buys Australian-made things usually, and without name-calling, think that view is taken to a far extreme, eg. they couldn’t make out what was being said.

Going further, as I said the other night at a drinks event, I find the UK-based crews, the JetConnect crews, the JQ cabin crew and potentially I think I’ll find the Japanese-based crews to all be really nice most of the time. However, and no offence to Australian-staff, the Aussie crews are always a little more harsh and abrupt on flights.

If that’s the kind of service standard you want the rest of the world to remember as being Australian… yikes!

And of course, obviously experiences differ crew-to-crew, but I’ve found the international non-Australian crews to generally be a cut above, which is a shame.

I wouldn’t agree that cutting all jobs here is the answer either, but it comes to a point where you look at the differences, and you have to wonder why…

 

[Justchecking]

And of course, obviously experiences differ crew-to-crew, but I’ve found the international non-Australian crews to generally be a cut above, which is a shame.

I wouldn’t agree that cutting all jobs here is the answer either, but it comes to a point where you look at the differences, and you have to wonder why…

The why is cultural. Australians are more abrupt and harsh when held against countries where conformity, maintaining the status quo and respecting the elders feature large. Tell a group of Aussies that they have to all look and act the same because their job requires it and you have a revolt on your hands. Australians are not known for doing what they are told or falling not line, even in situations where doing so would ultimately benefit the larger group. Additionally Australia is really short on etiquette. It's perfectly acceptable here for someone to shout across the street, yell out of the window of a moving car and behave in ways others find obnoxious. all in the name of the lovable larakin. And you suddenly expect that cultural influenceto become tame, mild mannered and accommodating just because it's the inside of an aircraft? The irony is those harsh and abrupt FAs are the mildest and best mannered we have to offer!

 

[Justchecking]

Foreign airlines also place greater emphasis and training budget on teaching their recruits etiquette, deportment grooming and the correct way to address their customers. They would not dream of asking a raw recruit to learn the rudiments of their job then set them loose on pax. but Australian airlines have in the past done exactly that, only caring if you met the regulatory requirements of your job. Service in every industry in Australia is abysmal. We actually lack a service culture.

 

[mannej]

Jetconnect and Qantas are just like Crowded House and Australia. Like to forget the New Zealand influence

 

[dajop]

I think it is an oversimplification to say Australians lack a service culture and therefore Qantas service is bad. I've had some of the best flight attendants and in flight service consistently - yes that c word that QF is not usually associated with - in Australia on the single FA QF Dash8 100/200 and Rex Saab services. Amazing what the absence of peer pressure can do for service standards. Also had some of the best service when it comes to accommodation at little owner operated country motels and hotels, which are obviously appropriately incentivised to provide good service!

Over and above the training element, a lot of it also comes back to the design of the service. In flight services don't happen by accident or rely on the initiative of the cabin crew on any given day (or may be they do on Qantas). I am sure they are designed carefully to provide a level of service that the bean counters consider appropriate. There are times when i just can't help but think the Qantas service is designed to minimise the costs of inflight services, from frequency of patrols through the cabin to the speed at which patrols are done. Either because QF don't want to pay the extra service items themselves (such as drinks) (and the extra fuel to carry such items) or they don't want to/can't afford to pay for the FA's to provide a higher level of service.

A point in case is SQ - which do provide a consistent service, but it is designed that way. In J, MEL-SIN for example you get 4 hot towels at different points in the flight, last time I flew QF in J on that sector you got one hot towel - it's not the FA's fault, it's the way the service is designed. On SQ in Y on long hauls they immediately come through with beer/wine/juice/soft drink/water in plastic cups straight after take off. Then a trolley drinks run, then another set of drinks with the meal. Last time on QF, the drinks came at the same time as meal and it is a brave person who asks for another. Is that the FA's fault, or the airlines fault?

Just some thoughts.

 

[ethernet]

From what I am hearing loads on the JQ flights to Vietnam have been very light lately - something like less than 50 passengers some flights.

I think their biggest issue with the JQ international flights out of DRW is timing. I've done the DRW-SGN RT a couple of times and not sure that I would do it again because of the incoming flight being an overnight and even though it's a short one it turns into the flight from hell.

For me issue with Qantas is staff attitude. If you want me to pay you a premium for supposedly being the best start acting like it. Show me the customer some respect.

No surprise there - it is a family thing, and if JQ analyzed the situation properly (exit interviews) and understood mothers with too excited kids , it gets the 'never again' vote. DRW has no 'Kids playground or Childcare' , nor is the schedule nice for public transport on arrival. It is another thread to discuss why Airports are so hostile and family/kids unfriendly, and 'kill' the holiday romance picture on the spot.
The profiles change when families travel.

Vn males love the price, but the wives have the veto - and for those not escaping to 'flounges' - it is sheer hell in the cattle herding bays, and the TV's with no sound, and completely absent Vietnamese language presence. Like QF, JQ has not, or is incapable of root cause analysis.
Fixing up the airports to be less culturally pig ignorant, with a family pressure release is not all that hard.

For DRW to HCMC flights the price IS right, and it is 100% service and schedule, and through connection timing, and DRW being a 2 hour hellhole as the kids are woken up.

 

[under the radar]

I think it is an oversimplification to say Australians lack a service culture and therefore Qantas service is bad. I've had some of the best flight attendants and in flight service consistently - yes that c word that QF is not usually associated with - in Australia on the single FA QF Dash8 100/200 and Rex Saab services. Amazing what the absence of peer pressure can do for service standards. Also had some of the best service when it comes to accommodation at little owner operated country motels and hotels, which are obviously appropriately incentivised to provide good service!

Over and above the training element, a lot of it also comes back to the design of the service. In flight services don't happen by accident or rely on the initiative of the cabin crew on any given day (or may be they do on Qantas). I am sure they are designed carefully to provide a level of service that the bean counters consider appropriate. There are times when i just can't help but think the Qantas service is designed to minimise the costs of inflight services, from frequency of patrols through the cabin to the speed at which patrols are done. Either because QF don't want to pay the extra service items themselves (such as drinks) (and the extra fuel to carry such items) or they don't want to/can't afford to pay for the FA's to provide a higher level of service.

A point in case is SQ - which do provide a consistent service, but it is designed that way. In J, MEL-SIN for example you get 4 hot towels at different points in the flight, last time I flew QF in J on that sector you got one hot towel - it's not the FA's fault, it's the way the service is designed. On SQ in Y on long hauls they immediately come through with beer/wine/juice/soft drink/water in plastic cups straight after take off. Then a trolley drinks run, then another set of drinks with the meal. Last time on QF, the drinks came at the same time as meal and it is a brave person who asks for another. Is that the FA's fault, or the airlines fault?

Just some thoughts.

uve hit the nail on the head...its a case of crew doing the best with what they are given..and they arent given much..over the last few years, so much has been taken off the aircraft to 'lighten the aircraft' ie save fuel ..and yes all the little things do add up to make a big difference in weight/fuel use/costs.. there is simply not enough stock/product on board to provide that service...and management wont increase product/stock on a flight solely due to the cost involved..and generally if you do see something new appear on a flight its at the expense of losing something else..im not condoning this..just stating the facts!

 

[frankxinyu]

The why is cultural. Australians are more abrupt and harsh when held against countries where conformity, maintaining the status quo and respecting the elders feature large. Tell a group of Aussies that they have to all look and act the same because their job requires it and you have a revolt on your hands. Australians are not known for doing what they are told or falling not line, even in situations where doing so would ultimately benefit the larger group. Additionally Australia is really short on etiquette. It's perfectly acceptable here for someone to shout across the street, yell out of the window of a moving car and behave in ways others find obnoxious. all in the name of the lovable larakin. And you suddenly expect that cultural influenceto become tame, mild mannered and accommodating just because it's the inside of an aircraft? The irony is those harsh and abrupt FAs are the mildest and best mannered we have to offer!

thats a bit harsh mate??

i think you are referring to a special group of Australians, called Bogans.