Bushfires 2019/2020!

[drron]

Or you had separate Mortgage insurance.

 

[amaroo]

Ok but from a commercial perspective that makes sense. If your car was a write-off the Finance company would be the first to get their money and you get the remainder if any. You dont get a new car and the same finance deal. And at any time a Bank can re-evaluate a customers ability to pay back a loan if they decide to revalue the property held as security. It is in the fine print and usually occurs every 5 years which in most cases the property has increased in value but our niece who had an investment property in Perth that was revalued got stung very badly

Car loans are small and are unsecured credit. So that makes sense.

Your insured value could easily be just enough to cover the remaining mortgage. I'd suspect most people purchasing house insurance are not including the outstanding mortgage figure in their total number.

$500K for the mortgage and another $500K for the rebuild.... I never calculated it like that. All the insurance value calculators I've seen is purely a bricks and mortar valuation.

The next question - do the insurance companies have a clause ensuring you can't over-insure a properties true rebuild value.... I'm guessing yes.

 

[amaroo]

Or you had separate Mortgage insurance.

I suspect most people see that as something they'll ditch as soon as the bank will let them.

 

[Pushka]

Car loans are small and are unsecured credit. So that makes sense.

Your insured value could easily be just enough to cover the remaining mortgage. I'd suspect most people purchasing house insurance are not including the outstanding mortgage figure in their total number.

$500K for the mortgage and another $500K for the rebuild.... I never calculated it like that.

The next question - do the insurance companies have a clause ensuring you can't over-insure a properties true rebuild value.... I'm guessing yes.

It raises a good point and I think that many would not even consider that as a possibilty. And many dont think to include costs of demolition either. But i'd always thought about the way car finance works and had suspected banks and mortgages would be the same.

 

[amaroo]

It raises a good point and I think that many would not even consider that as a possibilty. And many dont think to include costs of demolition either. But i'd always thought about the way car finance works and had suspected banks and mortgages would be the same.

We just purchased another investment property (we'll live in it whilst building our new home) one of the first things the bank wanted to see on our other investment properties with a mortgage was their name on the insurance COC. It wasn't good enough the policy mentioned financed, they wanted to see their name on the policy, I had to call up to get it done.

It sort of made sense, but I wasn't thinking the bank would take the insurance chq direct from the insurer ..... the penny dropped when I read the ABC article this morning.

 

[Pushka]

We just purchased another investment property (we'll live in it whilst building our new home) one of the first things the bank wanted to see on our other investment properties with a mortgage was their name on the insurance COC. It wasn't good enough the policy mentioned financed, they wanted to see their name on the policy, I had to call up to get it done.

It sort of made sense, but I wasn't thinking the bank would take the insurance chq direct from the insurer ..... the penny dropped when I read the ABC article this morning.

Yep, we have had to put the name of the lender on the policy - there was one financial provider (not a Bank) whom we later came to regard as toxic and unethical, who were positively cough about it - that was 14 years ago approximately.

I have no doubt we will hear of sad stories yet to unfold about issues of mortgages and insurance payments. Actually, its a wonder it hasnt made headlines for other disaster claims like earlier fires and floods.

 

[amaroo]

Or you had separate Mortgage insurance.

I thought mortgage insurance was protection against default not cover for any and all other insurable events.

 

[Flying mermaid]

I read the article like this....

Say you have a $500K mortgage, and have insured your house for $500K, an event occurs and your house is deemed a right-off. Instead of the insurance company sending you a chq for 500K for the rebuild .... the bank decides to take the money to cover the mortgage.

You're now mortgage free but you now only own a block of land with the scarred remains of a house on it So you need to reapply for a mortgage to re-build, but circumstances may have changed (less income, had a baby, reduced property values, higher rates, etc, etc, etc) ..... not quite the same as getting a big chq so you can start building.

Partially the banks - they do seem to make sure whoever else suffers they get their money. - However building costs are so much higher than the original house esp if a lot of people are rebuilding and putting pressure on tradies (there are never enough), so you end up with a much higher mortgage than what you had before the disaster. Our house is fully insured, probably even slightly over insured, but there is no way we could build to the same level if we were burnt down. We have left it like that though, as if we were burnt out we would build a much smaller retirement house on the same block so it would be fine. Also we no longer have a mortgage so no greedy banks for us.

 

[Flying mermaid]

I suspect most people see that as something they'll ditch as soon as the bank will let them.

You pay mortgage insurance as a single upfront payment if you have less than 80% equity. I.e you need 20% deposit to avoid it and it’s heaps - many thousands paid upfront. We ended up signing as guarantors for part of Ms FM’s recent loan, so she could avoid mortgage insurance. So you can’t ditch it. Even if you make a lump sum payment a month later that brings your borrowings down to 80% the mortgage insurance has been paid.

edit - I have this figure in my head that hers would have been around $8,000

 

[Flying mermaid]

Changing the subject. I have just realised that I can give Ms FM some protection from the smoke by buying an air purifier for her house (I’m not slow....). The next challenge has been finding one suitable - well just finding one - they seem to be all sold out. I think I have tracked down an IQair 250 Healthpro in Melbourne, so ordering that.

 

[love_the_life]

Changing the subject. I have just realised that I can give Ms FM some protection from the smoke by buying an air purifier for her house (I’m not slow....). The next challenge has been finding one suitable - well just finding one - they seem to be all sold out. I think I have tracked down an IQair 250 Healthpro in Melbourne, so ordering that.

Yes, Canberra was all sold out last week apparently. There is a wait for those ordered from interstate online. Choice did a testing of them and came up with some recommended brands though not sure which ones they were.

 

[TomVexille]

You pay mortgage insurance as a single upfront payment if you have less than 80% equity. I.e you need 20% deposit to avoid it and it’s heaps - many thousands paid upfront. We ended up signing as guarantors for part of Ms FM’s recent loan, so she could avoid mortgage insurance. So you can’t ditch it. Even if you make a lump sum payment a month later that brings your borrowings down to 80% the mortgage insurance has been paid.

edit - I have this figure in my head that hers would have been around $8,000

Often the first home owners grant is used to pay for mortgage insurance. Which IIRC is around the $10k mark for many.

 

[Pushka]

Have you checked Amazon? Sometimes things arrive the next day!

 

[Flying mermaid]

Yes, Canberra was all sold out last week apparently. There is a wait for those ordered from interstate online. Choice did a testing of them and came up with some recommended brands though not sure which ones they were.

Choice did 6 and are doing more in March. Blueair came out top but they didn’t do any IQair. I tried to find a BlueAir but the info I found was end March was the earliest they were expecting them back in Australia. All the reviews I could find seemed to indicate they are good. Dyson according to choice only removes 50% of smoke and a friend is trying to buy a Dyson in Canberra without much success.

 

[love_the_life]

Given that premiums are based on what you elect to insure your home for then I dont see that the bank is in anyway responsible for underinsuring. We calculated the cost of clearing, all the permits, and then rebuilding using current requirements and probably added another 10% on top of that. Our premiums were substantial (and I love not having to pay them for our main house now) but we knew we were fully covered. What the bank did or did not do nver came into it.

We have a shack on the River which is at risk of bushfire. It is a shack. A real shack. My mum used to stress out it might get burnt down. We told her not to worry about it, we would end up with a new home. And we also included the cost of the expensive septic system we would have to build if we rebuilt again. And of course we pay higher premiums to ensure we are covered.

I am not sure if this is still the case but after one of the big fire events, insurance companies were penalising those who had underinsured. For example if the house was insured for $100K and the insurance assessor deemed it to be worth 20% more, they would only pay out $80K (80% of the total insured). Likewise there were instances of companies saying that a home was overinsured and refusing to pay out the higher amount.

 

[Flying mermaid]

Have you checked Amazon? Sometimes things arrive the next day!

Good thought . Just went and checked and they have a wide selection of purifiers. However only replacement filters for BlueAir and IQAir not the actual units.

 

[Pushka]

I am not sure if this is still the case but after one of the big fire events, insurance companies were penalising those who had underinsured. For example if the house was insured for $100K and the insurance assessor deemed it to be worth 20% more, they would only pay out $80K (80% of the total insured). Likewise there were instances of companies saying that a home was overinsured and refusing to pay out the higher amount.

Oh yeah. I remember that issue now!
And how they can tell if a home was over insured when it’s razed beggars belief. And I bet they didn’t refund overpaid premiums either.
I wonder how this insurance stuff works for apartments that are under mortgaged as the BC pays the insurance and if burnt to the ground then banks surely don’t get their cut?

 

[straitman]

Politicians always want the ADF to do more but at the same time cut back on their funding

The ADF has been doing a lot prior to this call up of reserves. They are just extending the input.

The following has been doing the rounds and deserves further dissemination in light of the current deplorable and biased reporting by the media and the lack of knowledge by most of the community:

The Australian Defence Force (ADF) has been working with Emergency Management Australia to assist with firefighting efforts since directed by the Minister on November 8.

The ADF is providing the following support:

• From November 17 to December 15, The Army provided logistical support for 250 firefighters at the RFS staging ground in the Northern Rivers Region.
• From November 12, the Lismore Depot of the 41st Battalion, Royal New South Wales Regiment, has been available to provide logistical support to firefighters from outside the region.
• New South Wales RFS have multiple large aerial tankers and spotter aircraft at RAAF Base Richmond.
• Since November 29, HMAS Albatross has helped with water refuelling and retardant loading of aircraft from the Nowra Naval Air Station.
• From November 8 to December 22, The Air Force is providing airlift support to move large groups of firefighters and their equipment.
• From November 26 to December 23, The Army is providing NSW RFS with ground logistic support for the movement of vehicles, stores and equipment in the Casino and Hawkesbury areas.
• From December 3 to January 26, The Army is providing support at Marrangaroo Training Area to NSW RFS helicopter assets and personnel.
• From December 3-16, The Army is providing logistics support at Marrangaroo Training Area to NSW Rural Fire Service assets and personnel.
• 41st Battalion, Royal NSW Regiment, will support RFS Casino flight line with loading of fire retardant at Casino airport.
• On December 10, a Royal Australian Navy helicopter provided support to NSW RFS to fly day and night missions from Naval Air Station.
• Defence is hosting refuelling assets. This support is on an as-required basis.
• A Royal Australian Air Force 737 Boeing business jet transported ACT Rural Fire Service firefighters from Canberra to North Coast on November 8.
• A Royal Australian Air Force C-130J Hercules aircraft transported firefighters and their equipment from Adelaide to North Coast on November 9.
• A Royal Australian Air Force C-130J Hercules aircraft transported firefighters and their equipment from Hobart to North Coast on November 10.
• A Royal Australian Air Force KC-30A multi-role tanker transport aircraft transported 150 firefighters on November 14.
• Two Royal Australian Air Force KC-30A multi-role tanker transport aircraft transported 258 firefighters and their personal equipment on November 15.
• A Royal Australian Air Force C-17A Globemaster aircraft transported 165 firefighters and their equipment, using two flights, from Melbourne to Coffs Harbour on November 17.
• The same aircraft then transported an additional 130 firefighters and their equipment from Coffs Harbour to Melbourne on November 18.
• A Royal Australian Air Force C-17A Globemaster aircraft transported 130 firefighters from Melbourne to RAAF Base Richmond on November 19.
• A Royal Australian Air Force C-130J Hercules aircraft transported 140 firefighters and their equipment from Melbourne to Coffs Harbour on November 20.
• A Royal Australian Air Force C-130J Hercules aircraft transported 167 firefighters and their equipment from Coffs Harbour to Melbourne on November 21.
• On November 18, 21 and 22, Army supported Queensland Fire and Emergency Services helicopter operations at Borneo Barracks, near Toowoomba. This support is now complete.
• From November 11-13, Singleton Army Barracks provided accommodation and catering support to about 200 firefighters from the Victorian Country Fire Authority.
• From November 12-14, two MRH-90 Taipan helicopters from the Royal Australian Navy and two S-70 Black Hawk helicopters from the Australian Army provided movements for Rural Fire Service strike teams.
• From November 12-13, the Royal Australian Navy provided two MH-60R Seahawk helicopters to fly night missions from Sydney and Coffs Harbour to facilitate the operation of Rural Fire Service air observers.
• Two EC135 helicopters from the Royal Australian Navy and two S-70 Black Hawk helicopters from the Australian Army flew in support of New South Wales Rural Fire Service impact assessments on November 14. This support is now complete.
• From November 12-16, RAAF Base Williamtown provided refuelling and water re-supply support to a large aerial tanker from the New South Wales Rural Fire Service.
• From November 13-23, RAAF Base Richmond provided accommodation and catering support for varying numbers of between 150 and 300 firefighters.
• From November 18-19, the Army’s Borneo Barracks near Toowoomba established a helicopter-landing site, overnight parking and refuelling capability for firefighting and support to civilian rotary-wing aircraft.
• On November 21, a New South Wales Rural Fire Service large aerial tanker was refuelled at RAAF Base Edinburgh after a mission was completed in South Australia.
• On November 26, RAAF Base Gingin provided 18,900 litres of water to two water bombers fighting a fire in the vicinity of Yanchep.
• On December 3-4, HMAS Albatross provided catering and accommodation for RFS NSW at Naval Air Station Nowra.

This support is been provided in a co-ordinated fashion in conjunction with the State Governments.

https://news.defence.gov.au/national/defence-continues-bushfire-support?fbclid=IwAR2SPsJo8AAltyJHdwDk4tcVrInkHs28OH7Qc5May-e9AZ-7nbICCHU-61U

 

[amaroo]

Oh yeah. I remember that issue now!
And how they can tell if a home was over insured when it’s razed beggars belief. And I bet they didn’t refund overpaid premiums either.

Having just purchased insurance for the new renter - they know everything! I entered the address - Boom, all the questions were answered from number of beds, bath, garage, stories, age, material, the job lot.

With companies like nearmap they can see any and all property changes from the day they first first flew over it, it will also provide all the measurements they require for an assessment. Flash bit of kit.

 

[Pushka]

Having just purchased insurance for the new renter - they know everything! I entered the address - Boom, all the questions were answered from number of beds, bath, garage, stories, age, material, the job lot.

With companies like nearmap they can see any and all property changes from the day they first first flew over it, it will also provide all the measurements they require for an assessment. Flash bit of kit.

But they can’t tell the quality of changes though nor fittings.