Business class babies

[Lemon_Party]

Isn't the solution to just soundproof some of the overhead bins in each cabin, add some ventilation, and chuck the kids in those once we get to cruising altitude?

 

[suze2000]

toddlers with iPads and no earphones playing cartoons at full volume. Sitting near one of those recently I asked one of the FAs to ask the parents use earphones or turn it down. The FAs response? Oh, but he's just a little boy. The entire cabin had to put up with the awful noise.
...
I'm for a separate cabin for (anyone with ) kids < 12.

Surely this is the kind of thing (having to listen to a toddler's iPad) that can lead to air rage in some people and FAs should be on it yesterday.

And I agree with the kids cabin. Though I'd put the age more like 7 or 8. QF used to put all the families down the back in Y, so you were "safe" if you were seated close to the front, but I'm not sure that happens any more. It's certainly not the case with VA.

And I've been guilty of being the pax guffawing at a funny movie on an evening flight. I was really quite drunk in J on that flight. However, I would also have expected if I was actually bothering someone, to be asked to be quiet.

 

[blackcat20]

If airlines didnt want babies in F/J they wouldnt provide bassinets.

 

[Christine Jameson]

There is that balance. There are those flying in premium cabins for whom the class of service is simply an extension of their lifestyle. Then there are those who have saved up for a special occasion. I think those in the former group should be aware of those in the latter and do their best to sooth distressed infants and children.

rubbish - it's the parents' job to calm their children. It's their responsibility and not others'. How ridiculous!

 

[Spacetravel]

I had a general skim of the thread and couldn't see any mention of scootinsilence cabin on scoot. This is a quiet cabin and children under 12 are banned from this section. I have used it in the past and think it is a great idea. I also doubt full service carriers would be able to get away with something like that.

I fly long haul J quiet regularly and have experienced a fair few screaming babies. I have also been on flights where the baby has been so quiet I didn't even notice it the entire flight until getting off.

A baby that cries for a few minutes is fine, but in my experience a crying baby cries almost the entire flight. The amount of times I have flown SYD <> LAX with a screaming, crying, loud child in J and the experience is excruciating. When I have paid over $3k for a J fare intending to get some rest just to have a screaming baby so loud noise cancelling headphones hardly do much, if knowing their would be a screaming baby ahead of time I would either have flown on another flight or in Y or Y+.

What to do about it? I am unsure. I would love an outright ban on children under a certain age in J but doubt that will go well. On the A380 having the upper or lower deck childfree would be amazing. Some airlines split fare classes across both decks which would mean parents can still fly J with their child while people who want child free and go on the opposite deck. As mentioned previously, possibility of either a child free flight or a child encouraged flight would be great as well. Instead of banning children from certain flights why not offer an incentive for parents to fly on a specific child friendly flight? On these flights maybe they could have special children amenities such as extra toys or entertainment. With the hope parents flying with children generally opt for these flights over others. People who don't want to be on a flight packed with screaming kids can opt for a different flight time.

Or also like previously mentioned maybe the airline can just incorporate some tips on flying with children, possibly at the end of the safety video where they usually tell you to drink water, limit alcohol etc.

 

[drron]

Surely this is the kind of thing (having to listen to a toddler's iPad) that can lead to air rage in some people and FAs should be on it yesterday.

And I agree with the kids cabin. Though I'd put the age more like 7 or 8. QF used to put all the families down the back in Y, so you were "safe" if you were seated close to the front, but I'm not sure that happens any more. It's certainly not the case with VA.

And I've been guilty of being the pax guffawing at a funny movie on an evening flight. I was really quite drunk in J on that flight. However, I would also have expected if I was actually bothering someone, to be asked to be quiet.

It was mainly the unaccompanied kids.occasionally families.Both QF and VA when I was flying alone would put me down the back with the kids.I get along well with young ones as just a kid at heart.But the PC nonsense intervened and as a male I was banned from that area.

 

[123tehehe]

There is that balance. There are those flying in premium cabins for whom the class of service is simply an extension of their lifestyle. Then there are those who have saved up for a special occasion. I think those in the former group should be aware of those in the latter and do their best to sooth distressed infants and children.

People need to remember that they live in society and there are old annoying self centred people and there are inconsiderate parents and even children. To those that say there shouldn’t be children in J class clearly don’t travel much. Does a curtain between you and the bassinet at the front of the cheep seats make any difference to the noise? It’s luck that creates a good flight. We take our kids in J always and we get the evil eye usually from self centred +50yrs women and they are usually the first to complement us at the end of the fight at how good our kids are. They are also usually surprised when I respond calling out their own bad behaviour in making our children feel uncomfortable at the start of the trip.

 

[suze2000]

Why are these people self-centered in your mind? They may have been seriously scarred by a previous experience (as I have) and now actively fear small children in planes, restaurants, any space where a child may impinge on their enjoyment. I'm not talking about being a little upset, I'm talking about having such a bad experience and being so personally distressed that if there had been ANY other viable way to get home at that time, from where I was - other than flying - I would have taken it.

 

[JohnK]

Agree - Really feel sorry for some of the people in this thread who feel so entitled they believe they should fly without kids in the vicinity.

The cargo hold would be a good place for them to get away from others.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

rubbish - it's the parents' job to calm their children. It's their responsibility and not others'. How ridiculous!

I think that’s exactly what i was saying

 

[drron]

People need to remember that they live in society and there are old annoying self centred people and there are inconsiderate parents and even children. To those that say there shouldn’t be children in J class clearly don’t travel much. Does a curtain between you and the bassinet at the front of the cheep seats make any difference to the noise? It’s luck that creates a good flight. We take our kids in J always and we get the evil eye usually from self centred +50yrs women and they are usually the first to complement us at the end of the fight at how good our kids are. They are also usually surprised when I respond calling out their own bad behaviour in making our children feel uncomfortable at the start of the trip.

So did calling them out make you feel good?

 

[Haplo]

Children and babies are humans too so they deserve the same respect as a full paying adult. Major airlines are common carrier just like a train or a bus so if people have any issue with that they can try a contract carrier or private carrier.

 

[mtbsafari]

Unfortunately, children will be children and we cannot always make them do as we wish (especially in the case of babies).

I don’t have any kids and always get a little nervous when a young kid or baby is seated near me. That said, in most cases, my experiences in J and F have been very positive.

For example, there was an 8 year old next to me in QF J a few years back, travelling alone, who I found to be quite mature, well travelled and a good conversation. His parents must be proud. And last month I was in EY F when a family arrived with a young girl and baby. The parents were very good in making sure my neighbours and I were undisturbed.

If airlines want to introduce quiet zones, then good on them. I don’t think it is needed. Would I pay more to fly in such a zone ... probably not.

 

[miniyazz]

Babies travel. Babies cry. The only issue I have is parents who don’t try and manage that crying. If they are doing their best, so be it.

But the same applies to snorers. If they do their best by sleeping on their side or stomach, so be it. But if they refuse to manage the situation (for example by remaining on their back), that becomes an issue.

With a decent pair of noise-cancelling headphones I can't see how snorers can be a problem on a plane. Some prolific snorers can penetrate straight through noise-cancelling headphones in e.g. a youth hostel but the level of background noise on a plane makes it just about impossible with anything playing.
My noise-cancelling headphones are occasionally embarrassingly effective - someone can be standing right next to me talking to me and I may literally not hear that they are talking.
Babies can get through but I've been fortunate not to have been in close proximity. More than a couple of rows, it's a quiet background sound easily defeated by upping the volume.

Some upmarket hotels and resorts ban children under a certain age.

The same principle ought apply to airline premium cabins. Unfortunately most airline-supplied headphones won't block out noise from a crying bub, and sorry, but because carryon is limited, I don't like to buy and carry my own headphones.

I think you're making a mistake there. Noise-cancelling headphones are probably the item of carry-on luggage that will make the most difference to my flight comfort.

Out of interest, what are you taking that means you haven't space for a set of noise-cancelling headphones? Mine are about 5x15x20cm. That's around 1/25th of one 'standard' carry on bag of 45x35x25cm (of which Qantas allows 2, + a laptop bag/handbag).

 

[aaspro]

My wife and I are both QFWP and have traveled with our baby since he was 3 months old for both work and leisure. He is now 18 months old and we have flown with him on more than 60 sectors both domestically and internationally. My wife often travels with him when she works interstate and flies J at her own cost to ensure that she has extra space and the additional FA assistance. Y is just too difficult. for her when flying alone.

He is a very calm and contented baby and we have never had any major problems on any flight including long haul international. On a night flight last week in J from HK to BNE he slept for the last 7 hours and only woke up when the plane landed. Hie probably would have gone to sleep earlier if not for the lighting and dinner service.

I really can see no basis to punish families like ours because a few babies cry from time to time. Pushing them back to Y won't change anything except possibly inconvenience more (albeit lower fare paying) passengers. I agree with the comments that there is very little assistance given by FA's to parents who may not fly often and that this could easily be improved. It is the parents responsibility to ensure that their baby is not disturbing others. If they are not taking that responsibility seriously then it is up to the FA's to raise it with them. However, most FF's would have good noise cancelling headphones anyway.

I would be surprised if either QF or VA would entertain the notion of banning babies. There is the obvious commercial impact but they have also both recently introduced status hold for elite members during periods of parental leave. Banning babies from J would not seem to be very family friendly?

I would also think that banning babies in J would likely be a breach of anti-discrimination legislation in Australia. It would amount to treating parents of babies differently to other persons.

 

[Pazz]

AFF has discussed this previously a while back, but a new story is on the News Ltd website about a mother allegedly being told off on a UA SYD - SFO flight for the length of time her baby was crying.

Given these seats are sold at fares far in excess of economy (or even premium economy when offered) fares, I'd like to see airlines routinely banning children under say 10 or 12 from business class.

Even if USA airlines are hardly the leaders in treating passengers well, I can understand the annoyance of the flight attendant and indeed other J passengers around this woman (whose baby was eight months old - her husband was also travelling).

Airlines are not common carriers so if they choose they can restrict access to a particular cabin by age.

What rubbish. If you hate elements of humanity so much fly private. Can’t afford it? Work harder so you don’t have to put up with children or anything else that offends you or diminishes your quiet, sad life experience. Me personally? I’d hate to be sat next to you on any plane.

 

[Danielb56]

AFF has discussed this previously a while back, but a new story is on the News Ltd website about a mother allegedly being told off on a UA SYD - SFO flight for the length of time her baby was crying.

Given these seats are sold at fares far in excess of economy (or even premium economy when offered) fares, I'd like to see airlines routinely banning children under say 10 or 12 from business class.

Even if USA airlines are hardly the leaders in treating passengers well, I can understand the annoyance of the flight attendant and indeed other J passengers around this woman (whose baby was eight months old - her husband was also travelling).

Airlines are not common carriers so if they choose they can restrict access to a particular cabin by age.

This is too elitist for me. Being in Business Class does not give me a right to...I can understand that babies can be loud/crying etc. But so what. We were all once babies. If the parents pay for the right to fly Business Class so what. Suck it up. That's life. You cannot live in a bubble. I have no problems with it. On the other hand I see drunken slobs more of a problem or obnoxious people who think they have right to whatever and treat people around them like they are 2nd class. Ban these people...

What rubbish. If you hate elements of humanity so much fly private. Can’t afford it? Work harder so you don’t have to put up with children or anything else that offends you or diminishes your quiet, sad life experience. Me personally? I’d hate to be sat next to you on any plane.

Same as the previous comment...suck it up and fly private...don't agree with this sentiment. Business class does not give you the right to be elitist...

 

[Pushka]

Same as the previous comment...suck it up and fly private...don't agree with this sentiment. Business class does not give you the right to be elitist...

Ah, I think Pazz agrees with you

 

[agentgerko]

Charge adult fares for all passengers in Business and First, or if you have a split cabin then make one cabin child free. I actually think infants are less annoying than toddlers, as at least babies stay in their seats and don't think the aisles are playgrounds. None of this 'babies pay 10% when nursed". Fine to give infant and child fares in Economy but if you want to travel with family up the front then that's conscious choice and you should pay accordingly. I don't think it's unfair to say I have scrimped on other parts of my holidays in order to get a comfortable and peaceful flight and I do object if other passengers spoil this, whether it be by crying, getting drunk, talking too loudly, etc.

 

[aggie57]

Children fly on airplanes. Fact. I do empathize with people who have to share a cabin, any class of cabin, with a noisy anything be it a child, a drunk adult, or (my personal experience) a loud swearing Australian in 1st class on a transcon US flight. But ban them? No way. Buy some earplugs or turn up the ANC.