Business Class Discussion - Seats/IFE/General Thoughts etc

[Fruitcake]

My assumption was that Andrew Kelly was commenting on the lack of an accurate, printed J class menu for the current flight. But you are correct, serfty, that the Y buy-on-board menu is absent from the J class cabin.

 

[cityloop]

My assumption was that Andrew Kelly was commenting on the lack of an accurate, printed J class menu for the current flight. But you are correct, serfty, that the Y buy-on-board menu is absent from the J class cabin.

Yep my point is that A) there is no printed Business Class menu on the 737 whereas there is one for the 330. B) The meals on the 330 are vastly superior to the 737, and I guess C) whilst I know you can order off the buy-on-board menu this kind of defeats the purpose of paying a J premium if it's just a bigger seat and nothing else.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Apparently you are entitled to ask for items off the economy menu ...

... which you have to ask for as they have been removed from the Business class seat pockets.

My assumption was that Andrew Kelly was commenting on the lack of an accurate, printed J class menu for the current flight.

I detect a note of jovial AFF banter (often referred to as "fun" sarcasm) in Serfty's response. I'd hazard a guess he's not all black and white !

 

[Deleted member 29185]

I detect a note of jovial AFF banter (often referred to as "fun" sarcasm) in Serfty's response. I'd hazard a guess he's not all black and white !

I see Fritcake has "liked" this post, so I'll come clean and say when I gave it a cursory proof read, I noticed I'd typed the last sentence as " I'd hazard a guess he's not all black and ****e ".............

Fair dinkum Serfty, it was an honest mistake! The W and S are very close together and I'm a lousey typist! (either that or some freudian slip that reveals a deep and disturbing emotional state!)

EDIT......Oh I see we now have censorship. Good thing.......it'll stop my freudian slips becoming problematic!

 

[MattinCBR]

I have found my J experiences with Virgin to be pretty disappointing. I realise there is a fan "community" for Virgin, but I really don't get what the hype is all about (or if I'm missing something really obvious that makes it all so exciting). The service seems just a bit all over the place - some great, and some really poor, with very little in the middle.

Take my last adventure on Virgin coming off an international Virgin flight in Melbourne and connecting through to Canberra. Things in MEL were a bit ugly because there was fog in the morning in SYD and MEL. I arrived at the Premium Checkin, waited 10 minutes while the premium desks checked in Crew. Asked at checkin if there was an earlier flight than the one I had booked - no it's left already, thats fine, go downstairs to the lounge, where I was asked if I wanted to go on the earlier flight that had been delayed for a couple of hours - yes that would be great. Bags moved from later flight to earlier one - Excellent (but why didn't checkin know this when asked directly about the flight - "oh, they don't get accurate information, just what the airport provide").

Inbound aircraft arrives, wander over to the gate, aircraft now going to Brisbane instead of Canberra - Gate Agent gets on PA and basically tells everyone from the Canberra flight that there is nothing the gate staff can do to help them, and that if the have a problem "write to management" - grrrr, head back to the lounge, rebooked on later (original flight), ask about bags, told they will be all tank care of, something about a Premium Baggage System, go grab a coke.

Decide to go have a smoke, see my bags spinning around the Baggage Claim belt - turns out all bags from the Canberra flight have been sent to carousel, and that everyone needs to go check in again. Take bags back to lounge, have direct conversation with lounge manager about what a premium airline acts like - turns out a PA was made in the terminal telling people to get their bags from the belt and re-check-in, but that these announcements aren't shared with the lounge. Taken upstairs to re check in. At this point I am really steamed. Eventually board plane to Canberra, its an E-Jet, so business is a grey economy seat and a small meal.

The whole thing felt like there was some kind of tug of war going on, that the advertising and management team believe that they are building a world class airline, and at least some of their front line staff enjoy working at a LCC - there just feels like there is an amazing disconnect between the brand positioning and the delivery.

(Rant) And one other thing - what is the name of the Airline, this has been annoying me for weeks, Airport signage is Virgin Australia, onboard its a compete mix of Virgin Australia and Virgin Blue, out of LAX the other night I was welcomed aboard a "V Australia" flight, on the way to LA I got the new Virgin Australia kit, on the way back the old V Australia one (and I know someone will tell me that they are using up the old ones, but really, either rebrand or don't, and when you only have two international ports to get the things to...). (/rant)

I have said before that I don't think the lounge offering is as good as I get at Qantas, the E-Jet is substandard in J, and the service is all over the place - I want VA to work because I think competition and choice are healthy, I have pretty much now requalified for Platinum after having it comped, but I don't think Virgin are yet up to scratch to claim to compete in the premium space domestically - it remains my backup plan airline rather than my first choice.

 

[Fruitcake]

I see Fritcake has "liked" this post, so I'll come clean and say when I gave it a cursory proof read, I noticed I'd typed the last sentence as " I'd hazard a guess he's not all black and ****e ".............

Fair dinkum Serfty, it was an honest mistake! The W and S are very close together and I'm a lousey typist! (either that or some freudian slip that reveals a deep and disturbing emotional state!)

EDIT......Oh I see we now have censorship. Good thing.......it'll stop my freudian slips becoming problematic!

'Liking' was supposed to be a subtle attempt about acknowledging your point without having to put in an off-topic post (umm.... like this one) . For what it's worth if the post ever did say anything naughty (not clear whether your proof read was before or after you hit submit), my eyes certainly read it as "black and white", and that's why I 'liked' it!



To drag this on topic a bit, I think MattinCBR and Andrew Kelly have provided excellent, fair handed summaries of where DJ J is at - definitely a first generation effort, especially on the 737s. The proof is going to be whether these are teething problems and things go uphill from here or whether they've peaked on entry and staff enthusiasm slips. I'm certainly hoping for the former but with 3.5 months of J under their belts the anecdotes on here aren't encouraging.

 

[Justchecking]

I have found my J experiences with Virgin to be pretty disappointing. The service seems just a bit all over the place - some great, and some really poor, with very little in the middle.

The whole thing felt like there was some kind of tug of war going on, that the advertising and management team believe that they are building a world class airline, and at least some of their front line staff enjoy working at a LCC - there just feels like there is an amazing disconnect between the brand positioning and the delivery. But I don't think Virgin are yet up to scratch to claim to compete in the premium space domestically - it remains my backup plan airline rather than my first choice.

I have to say your comments do have basis in reality. I think a lot of the excitement is just about the sleepy cousin suddenly getting a new dress and a makeover, with the future promise of actually being great. The reality though is that it isn't a slick machine yet, and I think your observation about the 'huge disconnect between management and the frontline' is spot on. Time will tell whether it will all come together or not.

 

[lovestotravel]

The Y menu's have not been in the J cabin for many weeks now!

On the last 2 flights I have taken, when I have asked for something from the Y menu, instead of being served up on a plate it was just given to me in the plastic wrapping straight from the cart.

Premium service I think not

Since I have now re-qualified for Platinum for next year, I have actually cancelled quite a few of my J flights with VA.

Back to QF for me (for most flights) and towards lifetime gold I go

 

[MarkD]

Since I have now re-qualified for Platinum for next year, I have actually cancelled quite a few of my J flights with VA.

Back to QF for me (for most flights) and towards lifetime gold I go

So you going to use the Virgin ATA when flying QF? Make sure you knock the cough out of them when they remove it because ppl flying QF all the time are using ATA. I seriously cannot understand how people put all the effort into retaining Platinum, then claim they will never fly the airline again, after achieving an elite status level. Sorry, but thats just plain stupid

 

[dk4]

(but why didn't checkin know this when asked directly about the flight - "oh, they don't get accurate information, just what the airport provide").

The IT systems at Virgin are a disgrace. From outsourcing their airport systems to local operators (giving varying permutations to the problem quoted above), through to a website that requires you to log in 3 times on the path to using points for an award, because it doesn't remember that you have already logged in...

That said, and back onto the topic of business class service: I have taken a few recent Qantas B737 flights in J (to re-familiarise myself), AND the one thing that makes Virgin stand out, is the attentiveness of its service. I'm not talking about the actual attitude of the staff on either airline (although obviously each airline puts its best people forward, who are generally exceptional IME on either side of the fence), I am talking about the logistics of attentiveness.

The CSM on a Qantas B737 has 50% more customers to serve than the CS on a Virgin B737. That 3rd row on Qantas is a customer service killer.

While each airline allows for some galley assistance to the CSM/CS, it is only the one leader that does the physical service. And that equates to row 1 on Virgin getting drink refills, while at Qantas row 3 is still only just doing meal orders, so QF row 1 drinks don't get refilled until the equivalent of row 2 at DJ, who themselves would already be on their second round, this issue compounds for the rest of the flight. Leaving more empty glasses (and for longer) on Qantas than Virgin.

Every time the CSM steps foot into the cabin at Qantas there is one more row dragging down service time when compared to Virgin, and over the course of the service interactions, this time delay adds up quite quickly at Qantas, as Virgin continually laps past them.

The end result is, and will always logistically be, better service attention at Virgin when compared to Qantas, even with the most outstanding staff onboard.

In a game where the lowest score wins- Virgin's 8 is systematically beating Qantas' 12; every day, every flight, every time.

 

[maninblack]

I seriously cannot understand how people put all the effort into retaining Platinum, then claim they will never fly the airline again, after achieving an elite status level. Sorry, but thats just plain stupid

I don't think most people are saying they will never fly with VA again. They are saying VA J class is not up to scratch and at least for the time being they are heading back to QF. At least that's what I am saying.

 

[greenfish]

So you going to use the Virgin ATA when flying QF? Make sure you knock the cough out of them when they remove it because ppl flying QF all the time are using ATA. I seriously cannot understand how people put all the effort into retaining Platinum, then claim they will never fly the airline again, after achieving an elite status level. Sorry, but thats just plain stupid

But lovestotravel didn't say he wasn't flying DJ again - just most flights would be on QF. Honestly it isn't very hard to retain Platinum on both if you're commuting, and it does give you a decent backup plan.

I'd say DJ would be delighted with backup status, as that is still heads and shoulder above where they were a year ago for most QF frequent flyers....

 

[docjames]

Poor things, catching the dreaded 6AM flight, try 5AM if its summer in BNE LOL :mrgreen:

Except that in summer in Brisvegas it's been light for at least an hour by 5am.

Think about SYD-MEL in mid-winter when you leave SYD at 6am and it's still dark (pretty much) when you get to MEL.

 

[MichaelD]

The end result is, and will always logistically be, better service attention at Virgin when compared to Qantas, even with the most outstanding staff onboard.

Nah - in Virgin's case mostly it means more time behind closed curtains at the front of the cabin gossiping and giggling loudly whilst uncollected trays and empty glasses fester away.

When "all the holes line up" the Virgin J experience can indeed equal or exceed the Qantas J experience. Sadly, to me, the reality is mostly different - there always seems to be SOMETHING that doesn't meet expectations.

(For reference, my last Virgin J sector was 5 days ago and was excellent).

 

[dk4]

Re: Business Class Discussion - DJ 8 vs QF 12

...in Virgin's case mostly it means more time behind closed curtains at the front of the cabin gossiping and giggling loudly whilst uncollected trays and empty glasses fester away.

IME this simply isn't true with J these days.

(For reference, my last Virgin J sector was 5 days ago...).

LOL (For reference, so was mine.)

 

[EuroKick]

Re: Business Class Discussion - DJ 8 vs QF 12

Had the most amazing biz flight this morning from CBR-MEL. Fantastic service, and certainly went out of his way offering just about everything, and actually showing an interest in peoples day's. I'm spewing I cant remember his name! Bilingual bloke from Singapore. Was certainly miles apart from crowd and setting a fantastic example.

 

[lovestotravel]

So you going to use the Virgin ATA when flying QF? Make sure you knock the cough out of them when they remove it because ppl flying QF all the time are using ATA. I seriously cannot understand how people put all the effort into retaining Platinum, then claim they will never fly the airline again, after achieving an elite status level. Sorry, but thats just plain stupid

You clearly missed the part where I said (for most flights)

I purchased Qantas club access for 2 years and received the 40,000 bonus points just before Xmas so NO I won't be using the Virgin lounges

I don't think most people are saying they will never fly with VA again. They are saying VA J class is not up to scratch and at least for the time being they are heading back to QF. At least that's what I am saying.

Correct

Nah - in Virgin's case mostly it means more time behind closed curtains at the front of the cabin gossiping and giggling loudly whilst uncollected trays and empty glasses fester away.

When "all the holes line up" the Virgin J experience can indeed equal or exceed the Qantas J experience. Sadly, to me, the reality is mostly different - there always seems to be SOMETHING that doesn't meet expectations.

This is happening more and more now

 

[MichaelD]

This is happening more and more now

Sorry - unclear from your post which of these you are finding to be happening more and more now;

Nah - in Virgin's case mostly it means more time behind closed curtains at the front of the cabin gossiping and giggling loudly whilst uncollected trays and empty glasses fester away.

When "all the holes line up" the Virgin J experience can indeed equal or exceed the Qantas J experience. Sadly, to me, the reality is mostly different - there always seems to be SOMETHING that doesn't meet expectations.

 

[greenfish]

I cancelled and refunded my 3 remaining J flights on DJ yesterday. I've re-booked on DJ Y; a mix of saver and flexi fares.

I didn't switch to QF as although their J product is generally superior, it is also more much more expensive - too expensive for my self-funded commute.

The VA J product just doesn't offer enough benefit over Y as a Platinum, and I'm sick of cheese platters.

As for the giggling etc; in the 8 or so J flights I've since Feb, I've had impeccable service twice. OK service 4 times. And giggling and non-attentive service twice.

OK service means at least 1 element was missing completely - e.g. no pre flight drinks, or no newspapers. It may be that my experience was worse than average as most of the flights were on Embraers, and I'm sure VA will improve the product over time.

 

[lovestotravel]

I cancelled and refunded my 3 remaining J flights on DJ yesterday. I've re-booked on DJ Y; a mix of saver and flexi fares.

I didn't switch to QF as although their J product is generally superior, it is also more much more expensive - too expensive for my self-funded commute.

The VA J product just doesn't offer enough benefit over Y as a Platinum, and I'm sick of cheese platters.

As for the giggling etc; in the 8 or so J flights I've since Feb, I've had impeccable service twice. OK service 4 times. And giggling and non-attentive service twice.

OK service means at least 1 element was missing completely - e.g. no pre flight drinks, or no newspapers. It may be that my experience was worse than average as most of the flights were on Embraers, and I'm sure VA will improve the product over time.

Agree totally!

If the VA J product was $100-$300 cheaper than the current pricing, then it's a good value proposition.

However, at the moment it is overpriced for what it is, even with the 25% Amex discount.