Capital Connect.

[antycbr]

Re: Capital connect services Ex CBR

Of course this is only relevant to SYD and CBR my last DJ flight to CBR arrived in the same terminal as the QF lounges. Admittedly that is also my only DJ flight involving CBR this year. Does DJ currently use te same terminal? If so, lounge access works in CBR for CL. Is there a CL lounge in SYD T2?

Quite right - i was only thinking of inbound into CBR, not ex-CBR travel. There's certainly a very shiny new "Private Lounge" in Canberra as part of Stage 1 of the Terminal redevelopment (QF end). The Virgin Lounge will be in Stage 2.

 

[Noob]

Re: Capital connect services Ex CBR

Quite right - i was only thinking of inbound into CBR, not ex-CBR travel. There's certainly a very shiny new "Private Lounge" in Canberra as part of Stage 1 of the Terminal redevelopment (QF end). The Virgin Lounge will be in Stage 2.

VA will really need to build an impressive lounge, equally as spacious, and with a ultra elite area like the QF CL if they want to truly compete on the lucrative CBR-SYD route.

 

[MarkD]

VA will really need to build an impressive lounge, equally as spacious, and with a ultra elite area like the QF CL if they want to truly compete on the lucrative CBR-SYD route.

All this talk of turning VA into a Qantas clone is getting boring. They are a differnt airline, they dont aspire to be qantas, their new product appears to be as good as qantas.
Why the hell would they have TWO lounges in CBR when they only have six nationwide. They need to at least get serious about increasing the number of lounges around australia rather than spending money of wank lounges for fatcats and pollies. I personally would rather have 12 lounges around oz than a business lounge and a normal lounge in 6 cities. They have 80 ac qf 250 they will NEVER be qf


Damn you iphone and fat fingers. Sent from my iphone and AFF app )

 

[markis10]

They have 80 ac qf 250 they will NEVER be qf


Damn you iphone and fat fingers. Sent from my iphone and AFF app )

QF don't have 250, they have 140 or so.

 

[antycbr]

Re: Capital connect services Ex CBR

All this talk of turning VA into a Qantas clone is getting boring. They are a differnt airline, they dont aspire to be qantas, their new product appears to be as good as qantas.
Why the hell would they have TWO lounges in CBR when they only have six nationwide. They need to at least get serious about increasing the number of lounges around australia rather than spending money of wank lounges for fatcats and pollies. I personally would rather have 12 lounges around oz than a business lounge and a normal lounge in 6 cities. They have 80 ac qf 250 they will NEVER be qf

Couldn't agree more. A roll out of lounges to all the state capitals and major focus cities must take priority to create the network for travellers. Virgin have started this process but it needs to accelerate.

From a strategy point of view, my understanding is that DJ do quite well in the small to medium business market which is not locked in by contract, and is aiming to increase their proportion of business travel from 10% to 20%. Replicating the QF Chairman's Lounge network would be a huge cost of duplicate infrastructure that is not necessary to service that business market. QFCL is designed to buy influence - part of the eligibility criteria anecdotally includes commercial or political significance to QF.

 

[antycbr]

Re: Capital connect services Ex CBR

QF don't have 250, they have 140 or so.

And soon to be smaller - with the retirement of even more 747-400s!

 

[nlagalle]

Re: Capital connect services Ex CBR

And soon to be smaller - with the retirement of even more 747-400s!

Incorrect.. they are being replaced with new 737-800's

 

[markis10]

Re: Capital connect services Ex CBR

Incorrect.. they are being replaced with new 737-800's

Nope incorrect as well, the 738s are replacing the 734s and their delivery has been deferred in some cases, while the 744s and 767s go, net shrinkage of the fleet. Note also the non renewal of a 738 on lease.

 

[nlagalle]

Re: Capital connect services Ex CBR

Nope incorrect as well, the 738s are replacing the 734s and their delivery has been deferred in some cases, while the 744s and 767s go, net shrinkage of the fleet. Note also the non renewal of a 738 on lease.

They still have 19 due to be delivered by the end of next year which is the current 734 fleet?

 

[markis10]

Re: Capital connect services Ex CBR

They still have 19 due to be delivered by the end of next year which is the current 734 fleet?

The 738s have been deferred with only 12 due this year

Throw in the 763s continually being retired and the new 744 retirement announcement and you have a shrinkage.

 

[QFMEL]

Re: Capital connect services Ex CBR

Virgin are Upping the Ante. Just wondering if this will be rolled out Network wide. I am assuming Yes, because Polli's etc are not going to fly to SYD with all the trimmings, then get on a connecting service and pay for a coffee. A nail in the pay for stuff coffin I think. All round free catering coming soon. Any takers on a wager?Virgin Australia launches 'Capital Connect' service to Canberra - Flights | hotels | frequent flyer | business class - Australian Business Traveller

DJ clearly pay scant attention to the golden triangle market.

If you don't fly turboprops, they will come- golden rule of non BFOD AUSGOV fares MEL-CBR CBR-MEL SYD-CBR CBR-SYD.

 

[777]

Re: Capital connect services Ex CBR

DJ clearly pay scant attention to the golden triangle market.

If you don't fly turboprops, they will come- golden rule of non BFOD AUSGOV fares MEL-CBR CBR-MEL SYD-CBR CBR-SYD.

Umm, haven't DJ been the only one *not* flying turboprops on these routes for the last few years?

 

[antycbr]

Re: Capital connect services Ex CBR

DJ clearly pay scant attention to the golden triangle market.

If you don't fly turboprops, they will come- golden rule of non BFOD AUSGOV fares MEL-CBR CBR-MEL SYD-CBR CBR-SYD.

While I agree that I have a personal preference for the Ejets, Virgin haven't been able to charge a price premium over QF to recognise their higher costs. My experience of non-BFOD bookings is more "how can I get access to the Qantas Club". People might have a preference for a jet, but QF only operate jets SYD-CBR in the peaks and have Q400s all throughout the day. If your flight time can't be stretched to a jet service then you have to take a Q400.

The E170s are very fuel inefficient - page 16 of the midyear presentation has a slide comparing fuel burn of the E170 as being more than twice the amount at 1350 kg vs the ATR at 525kg for a 150 nautical mile flight which happens to be the distance between SYD and CBR.

 

[MarkD]

QF don't have 250, they have 140 or so.

140 includin jq qantaslink jetconnect,cobham etc etc all flying under the one brand???? Think its a bit more than 140
My point was virgin are substantially smaller than qf and all this comparison cough is totally irrelevant because they are totally different airlines. Wtf some ppl on here whinge like cough about qf yet in the same sentence try to convince us that virgin should be a qf clone, with the same lounges, ff program etc etc etc bloody etc meh!



Damn you iphone and fat fingers. Sent from my iphone and AFF app )

 

[markis10]

140 includin jq qantaslink jetconnect,cobham etc etc all flying under the one brand???? Think its a bit more than 140
My point was virgin are substantially smaller than qf and all this comparison cough is totally irrelevant because they are totally different airlines. Wtf some ppl on here whinge like cough about qf yet in the same sentence try to convince us that virgin should be a qf clone, with the same lounges, ff program etc etc etc bloody etc meh!



Damn you iphone and fat fingers. Sent from my iphone and AFF app )

143 operating under the QF AOC, NOT QF group If you mean QF group then say that, as it's three airlines you are comparing to 1. If you take out the international birds and compare current domestic fleets, on pure numbers they are not that different, other than in fleet age .

 

[Noob]

Re: Capital connect services Ex CBR

140 includin jq qantaslink jetconnect,cobham etc etc all flying under the one brand???? Think its a bit more than 140
My point was virgin are substantially smaller than qf and all this comparison cough is totally irrelevant because they are totally different airlines. Wtf some ppl on here whinge like cough about qf yet in the same sentence try to convince us that virgin should be a qf clone, with the same lounges, ff program etc etc etc bloody etc meh!



Damn you iphone and fat fingers. Sent from my iphone and AFF app )

Um, chill...

I was only making a suggestion, I never said for Virgin to be like Qantas....

Having a domestic 'elite lounge' doesn't mean two equally sized lounges, it could mean a room within the lounge just for 'elite lounge' guests, kind of like a much smaller SIA "Private Room" - which would work for VA because the customer base is considerably smaller than QF.

VA doesn't want to be Qantas, it wants to be a smaller airline that offers a better product - whether this will amount, we will have to wait and see...

From a customer prospective Virgin needs to offer a service of the level, or better than that of Qantas to increase their share on this route - such a point is completely relevant to the thread topic

 

[QFMEL]

Re: Capital connect services Ex CBR

Umm, haven't DJ been the only one *not* flying turboprops on these routes for the last few years?

ZOMG! You seem to have stumbled across my point!

They've gotten to a place where they have a consistent ERJ product out of SYD, with a bit of a mishmash out of MEL (QF are a more reliable option now for CLs/staff/bureaucrats with the move away from the DHC-8-3s) of ERJs and 73G/73H. The fact that they're starting to fly turboprops in a market where they are generally detested, particularly by premium pax/FF members, does not make them a more attractive option.

Nor will people flying ex-SYD or CBR give them any credit for not having done so in the past. You go from thinking an ERJ is a significantly more user friendly option than a Dash to comparing it to an ATR and it being at least lineball. Then you try and compete on schedule? Problem is, QF have three times the flights on that route, some of them jets.

What about price, for non-Govt/corporates who will be a bit more focussed on BFOD? Only at the entry level fares is DJ a clear winner. If you want any sort of flexible fare, there are differences only at the margins.

 

[QFMEL]

Re: Capital connect services Ex CBR

While I agree that I have a personal preference for the Ejets, Virgin haven't been able to charge a price premium over QF to recognise their higher costs. My experience of non-BFOD bookings is more "how can I get access to the Qantas Club". People might have a preference for a jet, but QF only operate jets SYD-CBR in the peaks and have Q400s all throughout the day. If your flight time can't be stretched to a jet service then you have to take a Q400.

The E170s are very fuel inefficient - page 16 of the midyear presentation has a slide comparing fuel burn of the E170 as being more than twice the amount at 1350 kg vs the ATR at 525kg for a 150 nautical mile flight which happens to be the distance between SYD and CBR.

Ejets are a great platform. On the fuel burn, you're entirely right of course.

You're definitely right about DJ being unable to charge a premium (though I suspect this is more about getting away with charging for a superior product as opposed to charging to recover higher costs, in a sense- this underlines DJ's broader problems with W and J)- I've routinely been the only or one of a handful of W pax on the Embraers in particular, on otherwise full flights both during and outside of peak times.

On the availability of jets, have covered that off in an earlier reply.

On BFOD, I think that consideration applies to most markets, except CBR. There's no APS love of DJ because there's been scant effort to woo them. There's fewer flights. They don't fly as regularly, and indeed, fly less regularly at peak times.

The change of W to J even ahead of the actual unveiling of J denies DJ all non-SES pax into this market. Premium pax into CBR aren't going to swap CL or WP for Virgin's revamped lounge offerings- this might not be the place, but I don't think they're as good as QF's comparable offerings.

All in all, there's a bit of a "why bother" approach in CBR that denies DJ a chunk of the bureaucratic market (corporate bureaucrats and govt bureaucrats alike). DJ's consistent failure to appreciate the peculiarities of the CBR market are the source of its failures there, not a failure by Canberrans to abide by BFOD rules.

 

[MarkD]

143 operating under the QF AOC, NOT QF group If you mean QF group then say that, as it's three airlines you are comparing to 1. If you take out the international birds and compare current domestic fleets, on pure numbers they are not that different, other than in fleet age .

Alright so its 143 but how can anyone say its only the qf domestic fleet to count when jq has taken over ****loads of qf routes entirely or in some cases the majority of services. Those numbers are totally off balance and fudfed figures. You have to include jq in qf domestic as the majority of routes they fly are qf routes which were handed tp them on a platter pax and all.
And noob the comment re lounges was a general comment as there are sweet FA va lounges and why should they have a business lounge with only six mormal lounges. I like thf va lounges but a va business lounge suggestion is just stupid . There have been several posts in several threads by many different users wanting qirgin. So dont think every comment is directed at you


Damn you iphone and fat fingers. Sent from my iphone and AFF app )

 

[markis10]

Re: Capital connect services Ex CBR

Alright so its 143 but how can anyone say its only the qf domestic fleet to count when jq has taken over ****loads of qf routes entirely or in some cases the majority of services. Those numbers are totally off balance and fudfed figures. You have to include jq in qf domestic as the majority of routes they fly are qf routes which were handed tp them on a platter pax and all.

Given this thread is about CBR and JQ dont fly there why? Qantas link and JQ are different airlines, they are not Qantas, a point we are reminded of frequently when something goes wrong!