Capital Connect.

[antycbr]

Re: Capital connect services Ex CBR

All in all, there's a bit of a "why bother" approach in CBR that denies DJ a chunk of the bureaucratic market (corporate bureaucrats and govt bureaucrats alike). DJ's consistent failure to appreciate the peculiarities of the CBR market are the source of its failures there, not a failure by Canberrans to abide by BFOD rules.

I wouldn't say its entirely "why bother" I just think that DJ are happy to pick up some BFOD travel, small-medium business travel, leisure pax and an increasing number of pax connecting to international services (think NZ/EY/SQ/DL). They certainly don't seem to have a problem selling seats to other destinations, particularly the CBR-MEL sector if the premiums charged for the evening flights are anything to go by.

I do predict the DJ J to not work out well on the SYD-CBR route - QF dont have J on the Q400s and I don't expect VA to have business on the ATR - the pictures available in the presentation suggest all-economy. A few of the SES I know at my employer forego J SYD-CBR on QF because of the perception it creates with other staff. I do think that DJ J would be used to offer business through fares on to the partners and for flights to Perth for example so an E190 rotation in and out in the mornings and evenings would cover off a lot of the departures, similarly to QF.

Of course the main competition SYD-CBR is actually the freeway, depending on your destination in the greater Sydney area driving will beat flying hands down, and an increasing number of bus services between the cities go via SYD airport, if you're connecting to an international flight adding $100 odd for CBR-SYD-XYZ can be a bit steep when you can do it for $15, or for a family via a one-way car rental.

DJs commitment to CBR has been pretty strong and I do think it's working for them - certainly more than the first time around.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Re: Capital connect services Ex CBR

There have been several posts in several threads by many different users wanting qirgin.

Now that I find funny ....

But I'm not sure I totally agree with it. I see plenty of posts urging DJ to take the best of the QF model and the best of their own model, along with a healthy smattering of good ideas from around the globe, and make a really impressive airline, with a great customer focus (especially with ears that work) and we the pax will appreicate them and reward with our travel dollar. Of course the bottom line is a sound model that makes money, but we know from watching the industry evolve for the last ten to twenty years that a sound financial base was well down from the regulated days of Ansett/Qantas.

 

[QFMEL]

Re: Capital connect services Ex CBR

I wouldn't say its entirely "why bother" I just think that DJ are happy to pick up some BFOD travel, small-medium business travel, leisure pax and an increasing number of pax connecting to international services (think NZ/EY/SQ/DL). They certainly don't seem to have a problem selling seats to other destinations, particularly the CBR-MEL sector if the premiums charged for the evening flights are anything to go by.

I do predict the DJ J to not work out well on the SYD-CBR route - QF dont have J on the Q400s and I don't expect VA to have business on the ATR - the pictures available in the presentation suggest all-economy. A few of the SES I know at my employer forego J SYD-CBR on QF because of the perception it creates with other staff. I do think that DJ J would be used to offer business through fares on to the partners and for flights to Perth for example so an E190 rotation in and out in the mornings and evenings would cover off a lot of the departures, similarly to QF.

Of course the main competition SYD-CBR is actually the freeway, depending on your destination in the greater Sydney area driving will beat flying hands down, and an increasing number of bus services between the cities go via SYD airport, if you're connecting to an international flight adding $100 odd for CBR-SYD-XYZ can be a bit steep when you can do it for $15, or for a family via a one-way car rental.

DJs commitment to CBR has been pretty strong and I do think it's working for them - certainly more than the first time around.

We'll have to agree to disagree- but DJ's lack of focus on a particular segment of the market, whilst trying to chase J pax in the abstract, can't help but look confused.

E190s at both ends of the day is probably their best bet to lock in a (admittedly reduced) J following.

On int connections, unless you're getting a fantastic price or schedule forces you to fly via SYD (this is particularly true of outbound trips to the east coast of the US), I don't know anyone in Canberra who doesn't fly out via Melbourne. Within that, more than three quarters will do the domestic leg on QF. This has been assisted in no small part- anecdotally, at least- by EK's breakup with DJ.

On the evening flights ex CBR to MEL, if CASA regs allowed, even the RAAF could charge whatever they like at peak times for pax to be carried on netting and bench seating. Not a reflection on DJ not struggling, more of a reflection on the extent to which it's a commuter market.

And on the freeway, that's true, but only up to a point. If you're wanting to leave CBR around the last jet flight (which APS people who have to leave town will more often than not aim for) and return some time the next day, you're not always going to have a spare six hours in that time frame. And if work is paying you TA, why kill a huge chunk of it on hotel parking, whether it's your car or a rental?

 

[pauly7]

Ejets are a great platform. On the fuel burn, you're entirely right of course.

Virgin have been having much bigger issues with the E-jets than just being gas guzzlers.

They have had significant problems with reliability and high incidents of them going tech. One was even stranded in HBA for a period of time - mention e-jet to any JH/DJ engineer and you'll either get a fit of giggles / a brain explosion or them bursting into tears.

It is right up there with Live2air as
BG's biggest mistakes

 

[MarkD]

Re: Capital connect services Ex CBR

Virgin have been having much bigger issues with the E-jets than just being gas guzzlers.

They have had significant problems with reliability and high incidents of them going tech. One was even stranded in HBA for a period of time - mention e-jet to any JH/DJ engineer and you'll either get a fit of giggles / a brain explosion or them bursting into tears.

It is right up there with Live2air as
BG's biggest mistakes

Not being a smartarse, but why are they buying E190s still, yet selling the E170s. Is the fuel consumption similar to the E190 (Hence higher per seat cost), or is just that they are a bunch of lemons? I was under the impression that they were just a shorter 190, but are there other differences?
Prsonally, I liked them, and still do, but I dont have to pay to operate them.

 

[DJ332]

Re: Capital connect services Ex CBR

Virgin have been having much bigger issues with the E-jets than just being gas guzzlers.

They have had significant problems with reliability and high incidents of them going tech. One was even stranded in HBA for a period of time - mention e-jet to any JH/DJ engineer and you'll either get a fit of giggles / a brain explosion or them bursting into tears.

It is right up there with Live2air as
BG's biggest mistakes

I'll certainly agree with you re: the Embraers, but can you shed some light on how Live2air was a failure for DJ? I know a lot of passengers weren't all that keen on it, including myself, but why didn't it work for DJ? This is a genuine inquiry

 

[serfty]

Re: Capital connect services Ex CBR

I'll certainly agree with you re: the Embraers, but can you shed some light on how Live2air was a failure for DJ? I know a lot of passengers weren't all that keen on it, including myself, but why didn't it work for DJ? This is a genuine inquiry

I think it did not pay for itself - i.e. Not enough people paid to use it in order to cover the cost of supplying it.

One of my B-I-L's swears by it - he was disappointed to find it was being discontinued.

 

[greenfish]

Re: Capital connect services Ex CBR

Whether Virgin build a second lounge or not in CBR, currently the existing lounge is so crowded at 4:30 - 5pm on Fridays, it is really unpleasant. Enough to keep me on QF, having sampled the DJ lounge twice. It does clear out at 5pm when the SYD and MEL flights depart.

Both QF CBR lounge options (apart from CL, never been in there) are far superior to DJ. I guess flying from Syd, DJ's kerbside check-in might balance things out.

 

[antycbr]

Re: Capital connect services Ex CBR

Whether Virgin build a second lounge or not in CBR, currently the existing lounge is so crowded at 4:30 - 5pm on Fridays, it is really unpleasant. Enough to keep me on QF, having sampled the DJ lounge twice. It does clear out at 5pm when the SYD and MEL flights depart.

Both QF CBR lounge options (apart from CL, never been in there) are far superior to DJ. I guess flying from Syd, DJ's kerbside check-in might balance things out.

Bear in mind that the QC/J Lounge are both less than 12 months old and were included in stage 1 of the terminal redevelopment. The new VA lounge will be in stage 2 and the current lounge slated for demolition. QF experienced significant overcrowding problems with the old lounge prior to its demolition, even after a new temporary business lounge was constructed near the old gate 13.

While it doesn't help you immediately, it makes no sense for VA to invest in any significant work until the new terminal is finished.

 

[antycbr]

Re: Capital connect services Ex CBR

We'll have to agree to disagree- but DJ's lack of focus on a particular segment of the market, whilst trying to chase J pax in the abstract, can't help but look confused.

E190s at both ends of the day is probably their best bet to lock in a (admittedly reduced) J following.

On int connections, unless you're getting a fantastic price or schedule forces you to fly via SYD (this is particularly true of outbound trips to the east coast of the US), I don't know anyone in Canberra who doesn't fly out via Melbourne. Within that, more than three quarters will do the domestic leg on QF. This has been assisted in no small part- anecdotally, at least- by EK's breakup with DJ.

On the evening flights ex CBR to MEL, if CASA regs allowed, even the RAAF could charge whatever they like at peak times for pax to be carried on netting and bench seating. Not a reflection on DJ not struggling, more of a reflection on the extent to which it's a commuter market.

And on the freeway, that's true, but only up to a point. If you're wanting to leave CBR around the last jet flight (which APS people who have to leave town will more often than not aim for) and return some time the next day, you're not always going to have a spare six hours in that time frame. And if work is paying you TA, why kill a huge chunk of it on hotel parking, whether it's your car or a rental?

Agree to disagree and fully respect your opinion. This was the subject of my Masters course in corporate strategy so I get a bit argumentative!

My point is there's more to the CBR market than just Parliament/APS and people visiting Parliament/APS (people actually live here) and that there's a diversity to the market which is different from almost all other city pairs in Australia in that road is a viable option. A lot of sales staff drive down, as do consultants - I know as they bill me for a flight based on TA rates then tell me they've driven down.

 

[greenfish]

Re: Capital connect services Ex CBR

Bear in mind that the QC/J Lounge are both less than 12 months old and were included in stage 1 of the terminal redevelopment. The new VA lounge will be in stage 2 and the current lounge slated for demolition. QF experienced significant overcrowding problems with the old lounge prior to its demolition, even after a new temporary business lounge was constructed near the old gate 13.

While it doesn't help you immediately, it makes no sense for VA to invest in any significant work until the new terminal is finished.

Yes, my experiences are very much about flying weekly but only since March this year, and predominantly BNE-CBR (perfectly coinciding with the DJ BNE lounge closure for refurbishment). Nonetheless, I wonder how many premium passengers will experience the CBR lounge as-is, and like me, switch back to QF.

 

[pauly7]

I think it did not pay for itself - i.e. Not enough people paid to use it in order to cover the cost of supplying it.

MY BIL swears by it - he was disappointed to find it was being discontinued.

Correct. Poor take up. Lost money. Straight from an loose lipped VA manager - but kinda public knowledge anyways.

I'm sure like anything in this world it had some fans but clearly no where near enough to get a return.

 

[QFMEL]

Re: Capital connect services Ex CBR

Agree to disagree and fully respect your opinion. This was the subject of my Masters course in corporate strategy so I get a bit argumentative!

My point is there's more to the CBR market than just Parliament/APS and people visiting Parliament/APS (people actually live here) and that there's a diversity to the market which is different from almost all other city pairs in Australia in that road is a viable option. A lot of sales staff drive down, as do consultants - I know as they bill me for a flight based on TA rates then tell me they've driven down.

Verily not the whole market, but a fairly large chunk of it wrt to neighbouring east coast caps.

I like to drive MEL-CBR-MEL every month or two (though this may counter my WP1 aims in the long run); I consider that a viable option, as do a number of my colleagues, so Sydney's perfectly understandable. The only caveat on that as I mentioned before is that outbound from CBR it's often less practical if you're just going up for a meeting and/or you're going to have to pay for parking.

 

[QFMEL]

Re: Capital connect services Ex CBR

Virgin have been having much bigger issues with the E-jets than just being gas guzzlers.

They have had significant problems with reliability and high incidents of them going tech. One was even stranded in HBA for a period of time - mention e-jet to any JH/DJ engineer and you'll either get a fit of giggles / a brain explosion or them bursting into tears.

It is right up there with Live2air as
BG's biggest mistakes

Live2air can be pretty useful at times- getting it for free on early flights or around the evening peak is gold in my line of work.

Not missing the footy can be a good thing as well.....if my team were any good.

 

[QFMEL]

Re: Capital connect services Ex CBR

Whether Virgin build a second lounge or not in CBR, currently the existing lounge is so crowded at 4:30 - 5pm on Fridays, it is really unpleasant. Enough to keep me on QF, having sampled the DJ lounge twice. It does clear out at 5pm when the SYD and MEL flights depart.

Both QF CBR lounge options (apart from CL, never been in there) are far superior to DJ. I guess flying from Syd, DJ's kerbside check-in might balance things out.

DJ just need more floor space. It's that simple, they know that, and I'm sure they'll move in that direction when they're in a position to.

Having said that, even their redeveloped MEL lounge is regularly a little more intimate than you'd expect it to be (talking outside of peaks here, although it's fair to say DJ's peak is different to QF's)- that undermines confidence in the prospect of them making their CBR offering big enough.

WRT CBR CL- it's fine, much less cramped with the old one, which was always amusing......pax loitering near the door as there was all too often standing room only, stealing chairs from each other.....no more. It's roughly a third the size of the WP lounge, spot on for what it needs at peak times, deathly quiet the rest of the time.

If anything I think QF made the QC too big, WP not big enough- the later is usually pretty full at any time of day, QC is routinely empty even in morning peaks.

 

[argamond]

Re: Capital connect services Ex CBR

Virgin now only have one fare type that does not include food, hardly some, as for consistency, it would be nice to see some from QF as well, after all some routes dont have hot drinks, some have free wine and beer after 4 on regional routes, then you have Citiflyer on some city pairs and not others (such as PER-DRW but not DRW-SYD).

Considering it is Canberra to Sydney, I am sure that the Virgin flight will not have hot drinks. It is barely 40 minutes in the air!

 

[markis10]

Re: Capital connect services Ex CBR

Considering it is Canberra to Sydney, I am sure that the Virgin flight will not have hot drinks. It is barely 40 minutes in the air!

No reason not to, having had a hot breakfast and drink on SYD-CBR jet services many times in the past! Unlike Pies, the water is on the boil at all times!

 

[QFMEL]

Re: Capital connect services Ex CBR

No reason not to, having had a hot breakfast and drink on SYD-CBR jet services many times in the past! Unlike Pies, the water is on the boil at all times!

Upside: boiled pies a distinct possibility.

 

[AirlineGuy]

Re: Capital connect services Ex CBR

VA Website front page banner now saying the complimentary food and beverage now available on all MEL CBR services tin addition to SYD CBR. Noted also in the October edition of Voyeur that it says VA plans to roll this inflight service out entirely to all flights, so I guess that's the confirmation of the transition to full service?

 

[oz_mark]

VA Website front page banner now saying the complimentary food and beverage now available on all MEL CBR services tin addition to SYD CBR. Noted also in the October edition of Voyeur that it says VA plans to roll this inflight service out entirely to all flights, so I guess that's the confirmation of the transition to full service?

I will find out in about an hour if this is so

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