Carbon Tax

[Mattg]

Does anyone remember the ALP's official climate change policy leading up to the last election? Yes, she said there'd be no carbon tax; but what she said there would be was a "citizens assembly" made up of several hundred ordinary people. That was a stupid policy in itself, but the principle of it was that the Australian people would have a say. Now, Julia has introduced an unpopular tax, which she promised she wouldn't, without any public consultation whatsoever. Not to mention, it will hardly make any difference to the environment. That's a fail in my books.

 

[Hvr]

Does anyone remember the ALP's official climate change policy leading up to the last election? Yes, she said there'd be no carbon tax; but what she said there would be was a "citizens assembly" made up of several hundred ordinary people. That was a stupid policy in itself, but the principle of it was that the Australian people would have a say. Now, Julia has introduced an unpopular tax, which she promised she wouldn't, without any public consultation whatsoever. Not to mention, it will hardly make any difference to the environment. That's a fail in my books.

How many core and non-core promises did Howard make? He was never called on them, nor harassed like this government.

When this government was essentially forced into a coalition with the Greens (just like the opposition wanted to) they had to consider their requirements as well.

Also, things change, should we remain stagnant for three years? Only, it seems if you're a Liberal government.

 

[HarryB]

How many core and non-core promises did Howard make? He was never called on them, nor harassed like this government.

When this government was essentially forced into a coalition with the Greens (just like the opposition wanted to) they had to consider their requirements as well.

Also, things change, should we remain stagnant for three years? Only, it seems if you're a Liberal government.

Not to mention that the leader of the opposition changes his opinion on climate change more often than he changes his speedos so it is very, very rich for any coalition member or supporter to criticise government policy in this area.


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[cove]

Jeffrey the price of fuel is heading lower as Europe and its major trading partner (China) slow further. Markets go up and down....this year it will be down quite a bit.

 

[amaroo]

Jeffrey the price of fuel is heading lower as Europe and its major trading partner (China) slow further. Markets go up and down....this year it will be down quite a bit.

Hopefully there will not be an incident in Africa, Hurricane off the Gulf Coast, blockade of Iran or whatever else some fat cats can think up to lift the price

 

[drron]

Jeffrey the price of fuel is heading lower as Europe and its major trading partner (China) slow further. Markets go up and down....this year it will be down quite a bit.

Quite right the price of oil has all to do with supply and demand.
Already with the oil price above $US100 for periods of time alternatives to oil are coming to the fore.In the US this has seen Shale gas projects take off-so much so that the US will be able to supply all of it's energy needs within 20 years.With many coal fired power stations switching to gas the US is now an exporter of coal-and this is all happening without a carbon tax.
Jeffrey Saudi Arabia does not want an oil price of $US150 as it knows that will increase the switch to LNG and shale gas.
The only thing that may spike it will be something really dramatic such as a war with Iran.At present Norway's oil fields have shut down due to strikes,half of Libya's supply was cut off with demonstrations with the election,sanctions on Libya have just been tightened and there were rumours of a Nigerian pipeline being blown up yet all this has seen only a small rise in the oil price.

 

[medhead]

Ok just found something to criticise the government about - They gave a sand bagging machine to Ipswich! Talk about blatant vote buying. They won't need the thing for another 20 years. Besides the mayor of BCC is no longer in a place to prevent the dam from releasing water sooner.

 

[cove]

That 20 year number for the US to be self sufficient has dropped to less than 5 years as the race is on all over America to develop new gas and oil discoveries. The price of gas has dropped as the market believes they will have too much.
Australia could do the same with our gas discoveries where new technologies are allowing over 2 million cubic feet a day to be produced per well onshore. It is a very exciting time.

 

[medhead]

Sorry to poor cold water on you gas people. Heard of Frac-ing? Heard that Tony Abbott when elected at the next election is going to stop CSG. Bang there goes your gas supplies. Just ignore that CSG is probably one of the least environment disturbing mining methods.

 

[drron]

Sorry to poor cold water on you gas people. Heard of Frac-ing? Heard that Tony Abbott when elected at the next election is going to stop CSG. Bang there goes your gas supplies. Just ignore that CSG is probably one of the least environment disturbing mining methods.

Unfortunately for your argument not all the gas areas in Australia are CSG.There are many Shale Gas areas that although requiring Fracking are mainly in areas were there are no Nimbys.But we have very large areas of natural gas which require no fracking.
And just to rub it in-isn't anti fracking and anti nuclear a little bit similiar?

 

[medhead]

Unfortunately for your argument not all the gas areas in Australia are CSG.There are many Shale Gas areas that although requiring Fracking are mainly in areas were there are no Nimbys.But we have very large areas of natural gas which require no fracking.
And just to rub it in-isn't anti fracking and anti nuclear a little bit similiar?

A bit similar? - Just about exactly the same. STUPID with a capital S! ISL uranium mining and fracking are very similar in process as I understand.

But I think Tony Abbott being on the anti-fracking bandwagon says something about his current game.

 

[cove]

The price of oil in US dollars has dropped 14% so far this year and with China slowing down fast due to Europe more drops are expected but there can be international blips on the way.
The timing of the Carbon Tax is quite amazing and if we could authorize a burning at the stake I would pick Ross Garnaut as the first for the BBQ.
Australia's economy is moving down sharply from what we can see and the Reserve Bank has gone too little and too late to save us from some nasty stuff.

 

[drron]

A bit similar? - Just about exactly the same. STUPID with a capital S! ISL uranium mining and fracking are very similar in process as I understand.

But I think Tony Abbott being on the anti-fracking bandwagon says something about his current game.

Glad we are back to being on the same page.I agree that TA and fracking seem to go together somehow.

 

[SeatBackForward]

Glad we are back to being on the same page.I agree that TA and fracking seem to go together somehow.

But the conservative demi-god, Alan Jones is against CSG. Wonder who's paying him off...

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[amaroo]

But the conservative demi-god, Alan Jones is against CSG. Wonder who's paying him off...

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Probably from the same magic pudding that pays the likes of Get Up

 

[Leumas]

But the conservative demi-god, Alan Jones is against CSG. Wonder who's paying him off...

He doesn't take any kickbacks... He's crazy enough on his own...

 

[ReLoad]

Maybe one day ill get to vote for a political party thats not as fiscally stupid as the Labour government and also not as head so far up its own cough whilst living in 1953 as the Liberals.

Then again maybe I wont.

 

[Jeffrey O'Neill]

Gas prices have fallen so far in the US it's now uneconomic to develop new sources. $2/mcf is not that good for the market in the long term.

You only have to look at BHP. They bought into the gas market in a big way, and now they have refocused to liquids and gas development is on the back burner till the price rises to cover the costs of production.

You also have to remember that potential can go unrealised for a long time. Between NIMBYism and politicians pandering to small sections of the electorate I'll be very surprised if much has happened with gas production in the US over the next 5 years. There's also the issue of increase seismic activity in areas that have undergone fraking.

 

[777]

Some fairly dispassionate analysis from The Economist. Worth a read if you are sick of debate based entirely on screaming that the world is going to end:

Australia

 

[777]

Re: Qantas sticking to charging passengers for carbon tax

Well, let's think of the biggest ongoing case study in Australia - Supermarket Price Wars.

The pressure for consumers or "incentive" as mentioned above to choose a better company due to the carbon tax boils down to choose a "cheaper" supplier if you call a spade a spade.

Is that a bad thing? Make up your own mind but looking at the Supermarkets consider this:

There is now not one Australian farmer producing broccoli for packaging as "frozen" broccoli. Virtually all frozen broccoli is now produced in China (carbon impacts anyone?). There is some packaged in NZ from broccoli imported into NZ from China and it is labelled product of NZ.

Australian consumers chose the cheaper option and no more Australian farmers in that area. Regardless of whether brand name broccoli or store brand.

That is the most extreme example I've found so far.

The incentives existed, the consumer chose but was that what any single consumer expected the outcome would be? I do not think so - more likely most thought what they did would not make a difference.

So back to the real question - why does Q put up fuel surcharge for all Q flights and not Jetstar if it is being above-board with passing on Carbon tax impost as well?

If there was some kind of award for the most nonsensical argument against the Carbon tax that would be right up there. Sadly Alan Jones, The News Limited Press and Tony Abbott have a huge head start on you so you'll need to ratchet it up a bit to be in the race.