Carbon Tax

[JohnPhelan]

Re: Qantas sticking to charging passengers for carbon tax

To clarify, are you saying that because someone is anti-abortion as a method of birth control (i.e. not for medical reasons), then they are mysogynistic?

Interesting hypothesis, as it would mean that millions of Australian women are "mysogynistic" .....

And you do realise Abbott's personal point of view on this is virtually identical to Kevin Rudd's?

 

[rechoboam]

Re: Qantas sticking to charging passengers for carbon tax

Abortion - is one of the other things. Otherwise, if one wishes to see the supporting evidence it would have been a simple matter of noticing the failings of various ministers during the Howard government. I believe that one of Abbott's daughters also has/had a negative view about her father along these lines.


Sent from the Throne

His statements whether you or I agree with them or not are opposing abortion as a means of birth control. I don't see that as misogynistic. Various other unremarkable pronouncements were seized on by the government to distract the public from whatever crises were going on at the time. And to think a young daughter disagrees with her father about personal and/or political issues. What a scandal!

As others have pointed out, our former PM Rudd would have exactly the same views and was regularly interviewed outside his church, which I personally don't think is ideal in a secular society like ours.

Anyway as I said before he may not be the leader when the election comes around. The total lack of any scrutiny of the opposition's policies by Labor and the media, in favour of hysterical ranting about Abbott's views on abortion- which are of no consequence for public policy - means the Libs will romp it in. Most unfortunately the 'direct action' scheme and so on might actually be implemented. Ironically, I suspect Lib members around the country are putting ten times the energy into opposing this particular policy as Labor are. It would be a disaster, though no worse than Labour bailing out one carbon-intensive industry after another because of political expediency.

 

[Moody]

Re: Qantas sticking to charging passengers for carbon tax

To clarify, are you saying that because someone is anti-abortion as a method of birth control (i.e. not for medical reasons), then they are mysogynistic?

Interesting hypothesis, as it would mean that millions of Australian women are "mysogynistic" .....

And you do realise Abbott's personal point of view on this is virtually identical to Kevin Rudd's?

Tony is old-school Catholic, which may not make him misogynistic but certainly there are problems with equality. He also believes a woman's virginity is a "gift" that should not be given away before marriage lightly, but made no comment about male virginity. You don't see a problem with this???

Anyway - this thread has been way off topic for a long time with no benefit. Can we bring it back to how putting a price on pollution (which was previously free) is not a good idea in a market-based economy, and how paying the equivalent of a take-away coffee on a domestic flight is going to really inconvenience anyone on this forum?

 

[whatmeworry]

Re: Qantas sticking to charging passengers for carbon tax

A rape joke about the PM by Tony Abbott.

“Are you suggesting to me that when it comes to Julia, no doesn’t mean no?” he said.
Mr Abbott repeated the comment a number of times.

 

[amaroo]

Re: Qantas sticking to charging passengers for carbon tax

Looks like the ALP head kickers are coming out to play:-

First, it fed a few pork pies to the people
Then, it was the honourable member for Dension - pokies & few more pork pies
Now, it's the Greens - shock horror, they are from another planet, extremist & loonies (just a few of the better quotes)

Just as well we have the Worlds Greatest Treasurer to see things right:shock:

 

[JohnPhelan]

Re: Qantas sticking to charging passengers for carbon tax

I believe you asked for justification for applying the label to Abbott

Sent from the Throne

And still waiting to hear how his views show that he hates women (the definition of a misogynist).

At any rate, none of this discussion belongs on AFF. My point was that people should avoid hurling really hateful, personal insults about others, such as labelling anyone mysogynistic, evil, or corrupt. Let's get back to talking about travel issues!

 

[amaroo]

Re: Qantas sticking to charging passengers for carbon tax

Anyway - this thread has been way off topic for a long time with no benefit. Can we bring it back to how putting a price on pollution (which was previously free) is not a good idea in a market-based economy, and how paying the equivalent of a take-away coffee on a domestic flight is going to really inconvenience anyone on this forum?

Agree..........

 

[rechoboam]

Re: Qantas sticking to charging passengers for carbon tax

A rape joke about the PM by Tony Abbott.

Reliance on this sort of "gotcha" quoting of the bogeyman has resulted in a primary vote of ~30%...it might be time to rethink. I realise his personal popularity is low but the refusal of Labor to give up the personal attacks is a bit bewildering.

 

[JohnPhelan]

Re: Qantas sticking to charging passengers for carbon tax

Reliance on this sort of "gotcha" quoting of the bogeyman has resulted in a primary vote of ~30%...it might be time to rethink. I realise his personal popularity is low but the refusal of Labor to give up the personal attacks is a bit bewildering.

Same tactic as Labor tried in Qld, with its whole campaign centred on personal attacks against Campbell Newman and his family. Let's see, how did that work out again??

 

[medhead]

. And to think a young daughter disagrees with her father about personal and/or political issues. What a scandal!
.

She wasn't a young daughter

 

[whatmeworry]

Re: Qantas sticking to charging passengers for carbon tax

And still waiting to hear how his views show that he hates women (the definition of a misogynist).

At any rate, none of this discussion belongs on AFF. My point was that people should avoid hurling really hateful, personal insults about others, such as labelling anyone mysogynistic, evil, or corrupt. Let's get back to talking about travel issues!

"Misogyny is the hatred, dislike, or mistrust of women or girls." That is the more fully defined definition of misogyny.

You wanted evidence that might show why Tony Abbott is viewed as a Misogynist and when presented with the evidence that suggests he is a Misogynist you want the debate shut down because it doesn't fit in with your particular view. I don't think anybody said anything hateful or called Tony evil or corrupt. People I think are just worried about some of the consequences if and when he becomes the next Prime Minister.

 

[RAM]

Re: Qantas sticking to charging passengers for carbon tax

To medhead and 777.Howard as Frasers treasurer had allowed foreign banks into Australia as the first of the Campbell Committees reccomendations.To do further required them to stay in office in March 1983 which did not happen.
And to Medhead-the plane crash at CBR in August 1940 killing 3 ministers and the Cheif Of Staff did not help either.
And to the election of 1975-the people expressed their opinion on that overwhelmingly.

Actually the foreign banks were let in and licensed under Bob Hawke/Paul Keating in 1984 along with floating the AUD (both great decisions). Citibank/HSBC/Lloyds/SecPacific saved the big four billions in property write-offs in the 1990s (and tax payer support...). Ain't competition grand.

Foreign Banks in Australia - Ten years on
http://www.rba.gov.au/publications/bulletin/1994/sep/pdf/bu-0994-3.pdf

 

[medhead]

At any rate, none of this discussion belongs on AFF. My point was that people should avoid hurling really hateful, personal insults about others, such as labelling anyone mysogynistic, evil, or corrupt. Let's get back to talking about travel issues!

Indeed! I guess calling the Prime Minister names isn't personal or hurtful.

Agree, she is pathetic.

Sent from the Throne

 

[medhead]

And to the election of 1975-the people expressed their opinion on that overwhelmingly.

indeed they did. However, I'm pretty sure my point was the election only happened because of a dummy spit by Fraser/the liberals. The result might have been different IF (big if) held as per the normal schedule after Whitlam was able to follow through his policies. (I'm not saying that Fraser didn't play the situation well using all means at his disposal, just questioning his motivation)

I thing Abbott's constant demands for an election now is about exactly this situation, a reflection of the dismissal. Things might change by the time we get to the next scheduled election date. Look at Margaret Thatcher (1982?), or Keating in 1993.


Sent from the Throne

 

[JohnPhelan]

His quoted word shows he hates women for having a choice.

What utter rubbish. You should be ashamed of saying something so ignorant and offensive.

 

[medhead]

What utter rubbish. You should be ashamed of saying something so ignorant and offensive.

Oh ok then. Tony Abbott is pathetic!

In any case, I'm not ashamed. That is my interpretation of the underlying message in his words. If you want to call someone ignorant go talk to Tony Abbott. If you don't like my opinion you can express that without being abusive.

Sent from the Throne

 

[medhead]

It couldn't be more obvious that you are not a Queenslander! There is a reason the ALP in Qld only holds 7 seats out of 89 in the Qld Parliament.

I've changed my mind. I think I like your reply better.

What utter rubbish. You should be ashamed of saying something so ignorant and offensive.

 

[drron]

Actually the foreign banks were let in and licensed under Bob Hawke/Paul Keating in 1984 along with floating the AUD (both great decisions). Citibank/HSBC/Lloyds/SecPacific saved the big four billions in property write-offs in the 1990s (and tax payer support...). Ain't competition grand.

Foreign Banks in Australia - Ten years on
http://www.rba.gov.au/publications/bulletin/1994/sep/pdf/bu-0994-3.pdf

Sorry but the banking Act was changed in early 1983 by Howard who announced then invitations to 10 foreign banks.This was immediately put on hold by the incoming Government(as it should).
Now another Reserve Bank Governor's recollections-

In 1979, Treasurer Howard established a committee of inquiry, the Campbell Committee, to investigate these matters, and it was clear from the composition of the Committee that it was likely that it would favour a move to a less regulated financial system. In the event, it did, when it reported 2-1/2 years later. And the implementation of its recommendations, at first under the Fraser government and later, on a bigger scale, under the Hawke government, transformed the Australian financial system and much of the economy as well. The reform process did not wait until the Committee's report had been fully digested and a number of changes were implemented between 1979 and 1982. One was the removal of all interest rate ceilings on bank deposits, but the most important change was the introduction of the tender system for the sale of Treasury notes in 1979, and Treasury bonds in 1982. This changed the method of selling government securities was a major reform, which has not been accorded the recognition it deserves. It was second only in importance to the float of the Australian dollar in 1983.

Unfortunately the internet here in Istanbul is not consistent and I have lost the link-it was on the abc website though.
And of course many are saying that Keating had the strength that Howard lacked.So how come Keating got rolled on a GST which Howard then introduced.Does that make him stronger than Howard who was rolled by Fraser on the floating of the dollar?

indeed they did. However, I'm pretty sure my point was the election only happened because of a dummy spit by Fraser/the liberals. The result might have been different IF (big if) held as per the normal schedule after Whitlam was able to follow through his policies. (I'm not saying that Fraser didn't play the situation well using all means at his disposal, just questioning his motivation)

I thing Abbott's constant demands for an election now is about exactly this situation, a reflection of the dismissal. Things might change by the time we get to the next scheduled election date. Look at Margaret Thatcher (1982?), or Keating in 1993.


Sent from the Throne

But then I was a Union Leader running a wage case in 1974 and Khemlani and the billion dollars had nothing to do with the disgust most people had for the Whitlam's Government's economic management.Similiar to today most wanted an election.1975 was the first time I had voted Liberal.I resigned from the ALP in 1974.

 

[medhead]

Well I hope everyone was watching ACA last night and saw the old dude who doesn't use his heater or oven anymore and goes to bed at 5pm to save the electricity. Carbon tax saving emissions already. Or stupid old man sucked in by Alan Jones You be the judge.

But then I was a Union Leader running a wage case in 1974 and Khemlani and the billion dollars had nothing to do with the disgust most people had for the Whitlam's Government's economic management.Similiar to today most wanted an election.1975 was the first time I had voted Liberal.I resigned from the ALP in 1974.

Still the billions dollars is what was needed to guarantee supply.

Sent from the Throne

 

[Jeffrey O'Neill]

I still can't believe a tax that raises just $6 billion a year over 4 years has so much debate.

Wake up Australia. The way our oil supplies are dwindling our fuel, oils, lubricants deficit is going to take a fair chunk of our iron ore sales to pay for them. Last financial year the deficit sat at $18 billion - and that with the oil price at times sitting under $90 a barrel.

What's this country going to do when oil is back up to $150 a barrel? The whingers will be out, the shock jocks looking for someone to blame, the voters demanding someone to do something, politicians pretending to do something. All the while no one's doing anything??

What happens when a "cheap" ticket to Melbourne in 2020 costs $300 o/w in 2012 dollars? Not an unlikely scenario if oil is $200 a barrel and jet fuel say $230-250.

At least Europe and China have gotten themselves prepared for a future where air travel may be only for the wealthy again by building decent HSR network. Australia can't even get its act together to finish off track straightening between SYD and MEL and cut 90-120 mins off the current travel time. Not that I'd be that keen to spend 10 hours on a train to visit.

I find it amazing that there's not far more debate about the $45 billion being spend on electricity network upgrades on the east cost. That's why our electricity bills have jumped up so much over the last few years. Avg wholesale electricity costs have actually fallen the last couple of years. Annual electricity consumption has started to fall as well - pink batts and building efficiency targets have started to pay off.

I prefer a fixed carbon price rather than a trading scheme. A fixed price is much easier to administer and far harder to game. With most of the money going back to the payers it's really about choice. You can choose to keep wasting energy - Germans use half the energy of an Australian, the Japanese about a quarter.