Carbon Tax

[JohnPhelan]

Re: Qantas sticking to charging passengers for carbon tax

we get the usual shock-jocks prattling on about "Juliar". How pathetic.

Agree, she is pathetic.

 

[JohnPhelan]

Re: Qantas sticking to charging passengers for carbon tax

Our greatest economic reforming party in recent history is the ALP. If you also care to look at history, the country always turns to the ALP when things are bad.

It couldn't be more obvious that you are not a Queenslander! There is a reason the ALP in Qld only holds 7 seats out of 89 in the Qld Parliament.

 

[11sjw]

Re: Qantas sticking to charging passengers for carbon tax

It couldn't be more obvious that you are not a Queenslander! There is a reason the ALP in Qld only holds 7 seats out of 89 in the Qld Parliament.

Is it because they're all "Economic Conservatives" like Kevin and Julia told us they were in 07?

 

[drron]

Re: Qantas sticking to charging passengers for carbon tax

Originally Posted by medhead Our greatest economic reforming party in recent history is the ALP. If you also care to look at history, the country always turns to the ALP when things are bad.

I forgive you because you are much younger but you haven't looked at history too closely.
First in 1932-obviously a time of the economy being bad the ALP was voted Out of office.
Second.Although John Curtin became PM in 1941 it was not until 1943 that he was first voted in by the people in an election.He became PM when Menzies and Earl Page completely fell out and the UAP/CP coalition crumbled.

Third in 1975 we were in recession again the ALP was voted out of office.You may not remember 1974 when unemployment went from 2% to 5%,the CPI went up 16.3% and our current account went into deficit for the first time in oiver 20 years.It is why some of us remember the Whitlam Government a little differently from his own view.

Fourth.Yes Australia was in recession in 1983 when Hawke was elected.However there was also a severe drought that broke very soon after he was elected.And the reforms that were delivered by Keating were actually things reccomended by the Campbell committee set up by Fraser/Howard.It reported in 1982.
Unfortunately the ALP always has a belief that it is better than it really is.

 

[777]

Re: Qantas sticking to charging passengers for carbon tax

the reforms that were delivered by Keating were actually things reccomended by the Campbell committee set up by Fraser/Howard.It reported in 1982.

Sorry, but you actually have to *do* the tough things to get the credit. Carbon pricing is a great reform and it's unpopular. It has recommended in one form or another by countless committees in the Howard era and by virtually every economist in the country then and now. Abbott's response, "'maybe that's a comment on the quality of our economists rather than on the merits of the argument."

The simple answer is that no one side of politics is inherently better than the other but right now this government is taking tough decisions that are unpopular while the opposition is living in a parallel universe where numbers don't add up, facts don't matter, resources are infinite and you never have to decide anything. I really don't care too much about personalities. I don't love/ hate Tony or Julia but i really care about what they are actually doing and planning to do - on that front the government is running rings around the opposition right now.

 

[sutho58]

Re: Qantas sticking to charging passengers for carbon tax

@ 777,, other then the carbon tax which is being paid for by 10% of the population, where is the incentive to reduce carbon production??

 

[777]

Re: Qantas sticking to charging passengers for carbon tax

@ 777,, other then the carbon tax which is being paid for by 10% of the population, where is the incentive to reduce carbon production??

I am genuinely surprised that people don't understand this but there is so much bluff and rubbish passing itself off as information that i guess in makes sense.

1. Carbon is now taxed. It means that things use a lot of carbon cost more. Things that use less carbon cost less.
2. People, when they go to the shops/ buy an airline ticket/ or purchase anything do so partially on price so - let's stick to airlines given this is a flyer forum - when airline A is using gas guzzling old planes a ticket on them costs more, when airline B is using newer fuel efficient planes or a mix of biofuels etc it is paying much less in carbon tax than airline A and can either pass that on to the consumer (= cheaper prices and higher market share) or pocket it and make a bigger profit. Either way there is a big incentive to cut carbon use both on the individual and on the company.

The same principle applies across the whole economy. Carbon intensive activities have become more expensive now, less carbon intensive activities have become cheaper. The effects are subtle but they flow through most purchasing decisions in some way shape or form.

Does that make sense?

 

[mannej]

Biofuels are not cheap.

I know you are just saying but will there by any cost benefits to using biofuels currently (in relation to the carbon tax)?

 

[777]

Re: Qantas sticking to charging passengers for carbon tax

Biofuels are not cheap.

I know you are just saying but will there by any cost benefits to using biofuels currently (in relation to the carbon tax)?

Not immediately that i'm aware (not an expert on biofuel economics right now) but the pricing of carbon around the world is driving a lot of the investment in biofuels which in turn is bringing the cost of them down. It also changes the tipping point at which biofuels (or solar or wind or whatever) become competitive which drives adoption of them much earlier.

 

[medhead]

Re: Qantas sticking to charging passengers for carbon tax

It couldn't be more obvious that you are not a Queenslander! There is a reason the ALP in Qld only holds 7 seats out of 89 in the Qld Parliament.

Offensive much? Being born in Queensland doesn't count these days? You're right to say that I'm not one of the stupid, sheep queenslanders who can't make the distinction between federal and state issues. I'm not one of the stupid queenslanders who still say Joh did great things for the state and totally ignore the corruption. I'm not one of the stupid queenslanders who think there are 2 million muslims in Australia despite the census saying something like 300000.

The reason that the queensland parliament is the way it is, is because there are an excessive number of sheep up there who don't think for themselves and just blindly follow the shock jock crowd. Perhaps these are mainly escapees from other states who just don't remember Joh and corruption, people who foolishly gave so much power to the wrong people. What did it take? 1 week for the corruption to start. Good luck with that, you all deserve everything you get.

NOTE FOR MODS: In no way, either directly or by implication am I saying that JohnPhelan is one of the queenslanders that I have mentioned here. I have enough former schoolmates from queensland on facebook who allow me to form these opinions.

I forgive you because you are much younger but you haven't looked at history too closely.
First in 1932-obviously a time of the economy being bad the ALP was voted Out of office.
Second.Although John Curtin became PM in 1941 it was not until 1943 that he was first voted in by the people in an election.He became PM when Menzies and Earl Page completely fell out and the UAP/CP coalition crumbled.

In other words, the parliament, on behalf of their electorates turned to Curtin. That choice was backed up by the election in 1943.

Third in 1975 we were in recession again the ALP was voted out of office.You may not remember 1974 when unemployment went from 2% to 5%,the CPI went up 16.3% and our current account went into deficit for the first time in oiver 20 years.It is why some of us remember the Whitlam Government a little differently from his own view.

Oh, the election over $1billion. It seems like peanuts these days. Why did we have that election again. Because the Liberal party's born to rule attitude couldn't handle that they didn't get into government. Exactly how did Fraser go as PM? Pretty poorly as I remember from my childhood.

Fourth.Yes Australia was in recession in 1983 when Hawke was elected.However there was also a severe drought that broke very soon after he was elected.And the reforms that were delivered by Keating were actually things reccomended by the Campbell committee set up by Fraser/Howard.It reported in 1982.
Unfortunately the ALP always has a belief that it is better than it really is.

Yet the ALP was good enough to actually implement those recommendations. Unlike Fraser/Howard. They told the story, got the country on side (including Howard) and did the job. The greatest reforming government in recent history was run by the ALP. I'm happy to stand by that statement.

That's the key thing here, the ALP delivered! So far Abbott is only talking, and he is talking nonsense. He is going to gives us more and tax us less. Anyone who believes that is going to be sorely disappointed when he fails to deliver.

 

[amaroo]

Re: Qantas sticking to charging passengers for carbon tax

They better hurry up & change the leader, the alliance with the Greens & the dud policies they put into place. I'm not at total ease with the Rhodes Scholar that you call a moron however, the current motley crew in power are more dangerous.

Hold the press! It looks like the Greens want to leave this unholy alliance:!: Seems even the Greens are sick & tired of the ALP

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[Mal]

Re: Qantas sticking to charging passengers for carbon tax

Not immediately that i'm aware (not an expert on biofuel economics right now) but the pricing of carbon around the world is driving a lot of the investment in biofuels which in turn is bringing the cost of them down. It also changes the tipping point at which biofuels (or solar or wind or whatever) become competitive which drives adoption of them much earlier.

... and here's yet another issue. The physical environmental cost of doing certain things often outweighs the benefit gained to the environment. There are reasons why big money doesn't go into certain research - every indication shows little chance of *financial* success.

 

[JohnPhelan]

Re: Qantas sticking to charging passengers for carbon tax

I don't love/ hate Tony or Julia but i really care about what they are actually doing and planning to do - on that front the government is running rings around the opposition right now.

Looked at the opinion polls over the last year or so, by any chance ??

 

[JohnPhelan]

Re: Qantas sticking to charging passengers for carbon tax

You're right to say that I'm not one of the stupid, sheep queenslanders who can't make the distinction between federal and state issues. I'm not one of the stupid queenslanders who still say Joh did great things for the state and totally ignore the corruption. I'm not one of the stupid queenslanders who think there are 2 million muslims in Australia despite the census saying something like 300000.

1. Qlders made their decision on the state election on state issues - primarily the incredible financial mismanagement of the Bligh government and its deception prior to the previous election.
2. It is quite possible - and totally accurate - to say that there was corruption within the government and police during Joh's time and that his government also did many great things for the state. The two are not mutually exclusive.
3. The Muslim reference - wtf ??

 

[777]

Re: Qantas sticking to charging passengers for carbon tax

... and here's yet another issue. The physical environmental cost of doing certain things often outweighs the benefit gained to the environment. There are reasons why big money doesn't go into certain research - every indication shows little chance of *financial* success.

... hence creating financial incentives for research and investment drives efficiency and innovation. Surely that's obvious?

 

[777]

Re: Qantas sticking to charging passengers for carbon tax

Looked at the opinion polls over the last year or so, by any chance ??

Exactly my point! Once you step back from the short term poll driven stuff and get back to the policies it's a very different argument... if you want to disagree with me then answer this simple question: why is the opposition's "direct action" plan better than a carbon tax? We're onto the 6th page of this thread (by my setup) and no one has even tried that yet.

I'm interested in it if you've got an explanation for that?

 

[HarryB]

Looked at the opinion polls over the last year or so, by any chance ??

Those of us that fear having Abbott as PM will look forward to the Libs having their moment in the sun. At least then they will need to put their money where their mouths are and show something rather than relying on slogans and bluster.

For the sake of the country I hope I am wrong, but I seriously cannot have any confidence in an unpredictable and mysogynistic PM who's first move as opposition leader was to install Barnaby Joyce in an extremely important finance portfolio.


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[Simo]

Re: Qantas sticking to charging passengers for carbon tax

Exactly my point! Once you step back from the short term poll driven stuff and get back to the policies it's a very different argument... if you want to disagree with me then answer this simple question: why is the opposition's "direct action" plan better than a carbon tax? We're onto the 6th page of this thread (by my setup) and no one has even tried that yet.

I'm interested in it if you've got an explanation for that?

IMHO Juliar has lost touch with the people and won't make the next election as leader.

But she didn't really win the last election anyway did she

 

[drron]

Re: Qantas sticking to charging passengers for carbon tax

To medhead and 777.Howard as Frasers treasurer had allowed foreign banks into Australia as the first of the Campbell Committees reccomendations.To do further required them to stay in office in March 1983 which did not happen.
And to Medhead-the plane crash at CBR in August 1940 killing 3 ministers and the Cheif Of Staff did not help either.
And to the election of 1975-the people expressed their opinion on that overwhelmingly.

 

[whatmeworry]

Re: Qantas sticking to charging passengers for carbon tax

For the sake of the country I hope I am wrong, but I seriously cannot have any confidence in an unpredictable and mysogynistic PM who's first move as opposition leader was to install Barnaby Joyce in an extremely important finance portfolio.

Whenever I see Barnaby on TV, I think ahh it's bumbling Barnaby Joyce!