Carbon Tax

[nlagalle]

Re: Qantas sticking to charging passengers for carbon tax

I am genuinely surprised that people don't understand this but there is so much bluff and rubbish passing itself off as information that i guess in makes sense.

1. Carbon is now taxed. It means that things use a lot of carbon cost more. Things that use less carbon cost less.

I'm actually curious as to what has decreased in price....

2. People, when they go to the shops/ buy an airline ticket/ or purchase anything do so partially on price so - let's stick to airlines given this is a flyer forum - when airline A is using gas guzzling old planes a ticket on them costs more, when airline B is using newer fuel efficient planes or a mix of biofuels etc it is paying much less in carbon tax than airline A and can either pass that on to the consumer (= cheaper prices and higher market share) or pocket it and make a bigger profit. Either way there is a big incentive to cut carbon use both on the individual and on the company.

The same principle applies across the whole economy. Carbon intensive activities have become more expensive now, less carbon intensive activities have become cheaper. The effects are subtle but they flow through most purchasing decisions in some way shape or form.

Does that make sense?

Isn't one of our biggest electricity generation? So that affects nearly everyone... we may not see the knock on effects just yet, but give it a few months when power bills arrive in..

At the end of the day it's going to cost us more in our hip pocket..

 

[whatmeworry]

Re: Qantas sticking to charging passengers for carbon tax

Isn't one of our biggest electricity generation? So that affects nearly everyone... we may not see the knock on effects just yet, but give it a few months when power bills arrive in..

At the end of the day it's going to cost us more in our hip pocket..

You will find the price rises come from spending on electrical infrastructure rather then the carbon tax.

 

[drron]

Re: Qantas sticking to charging passengers for carbon tax

You will find the price rises come from spending on electrical infrastructure rather then the carbon tax.

Not even the most ardent Carbon taxer says there is no impact on electricity pricing.And as to the spending on infrastructure most of that has come about because of the lack of investment in the past mainly by ALP State Governments.
Read an interesting article on butchers suggesting that the profession will be decimated due to the combined affects of Woollies/Coles plus the knock on effects from the carbon tax-electricity pricing,refrigerant price increases then transport.
I'm sorry but I really dont believe the Government or their advisers have foreseen all of the knock on effects-there may very well be a lot of unknown unknowns out there.

 

[amaroo]

Re: Qantas sticking to charging passengers for carbon tax

You will find the price rises come from spending on electrical infrastructure rather then the carbon tax.

One reason prices will increase is everyone that doesn't have solar panels will be subsidizing everyone that has.......those feed in prices were just crazy.

We're getting paid 2+ times per Kw more than what the electrical companies are charging! Another example of loopy Green thinking........

 

[Stoopidsteve]

Re: Qantas sticking to charging passengers for carbon tax

N
Read an interesting article on butchers suggesting that the profession will be decimated due to the combined affects of Woollies/Coles plus the knock on effects from the carbon tax-electricity pricing,refrigerant price increases then transport.

Decimated? Yes to lose 10% of our butchering capacity would be terrible. I have qualms about this fed government, but really do fear the confused messages and contradictory policies with so many more potential known and unknown financial holes in the opposition's policy.

 

[dfcatch]

The problem is most of the people screaming about this just seem to hate the ALP and Julia. They get all silent when confronted with the opposition's policy.


Sent from the Throne

I agree with you Medhead.

But other major factors is peoples' opposition is:

- the economics
- the need/urgency/level of action required etc etc

It's not 2007 anymore and the reality is for most people - it's not the issue of concern anymore.......the economy is.

So while the ALP has a "political" problem is selling it (and the lie argument etc etc), the politics is only 1 of many liabilities in trying to win support for it.

777 is right is his comments with the exception of:

"good thing it is too", and the argument about other worldwide actions. Two complicated discussion areas that are up for substantial arguments for and against.

Aviation is a shining example - not of carbon abatement action - but of innovation driven by necessity due to high costs of fuel. It is a good example that in some industries - the market imperatives for improvement already exist.

That they coincidentally happen to affect items "carbon-related" is incidental, not by design.

 

[dfcatch]

and abbott will remove the tax? roll eyes. despite his jumping up and down he will not get rid if it ... mark this post.

Yes he will - but he won't implement his "direct action" plan either......

Mark this post



(disclaimer - he may implement "a plan in some minor form", but either way - should solve 777's concerns....Abbott will put the whole "climate policy" issue on hold - as Gillard promised to do - until there is global consensus. The economy will be his legitimate excuse, and with the exception of the Greens - no one will complain. If you take out the partisan pro-ALP or pro-Liberal arguments, for which the Carbon Tax is a proxy, the climate issue is dead).

 

[james4321]

Re: Qantas sticking to charging passengers for carbon tax

Yes he will - but he won't implement his "direct action" plan either......

Mark this post

Another Lib "non core" promise ????

 

[james4321]

Re: Qantas sticking to charging passengers for carbon tax

I'm actually curious as to what has decreased in price....



Isn't one of our biggest electricity generation? So that affects nearly everyone... we may not see the knock on effects just yet, but give it a few months when power bills arrive in..

At the end of the day it's going to cost us more in our hip pocket..

There seems to be a perception that prices will change overnight, which is nonsense. The whole basis of the carbon tax is to encourage a shift in behaviour over time, that time line will be significantly affected by the investment/startup lead time for major investments. And a factor that will now be a consideration in those investment decisions will be how to minimise/remove polluting processes.

 

[dfcatch]

Sorry for the multipost - iPhone

777 - your economic argument is accurate - except you ignore the fact that we're part of a global economy.

There are too many externalities that essentially nullify your vanilla textbook analysis (which in itself is correct).

Medhead - despite your and my partisan differences (formed over the years by however) - I was a big Hawke/Keating supporter.

My voting intentions changed - due to the ALP shifting to the Left starting with Kirner.

And the reality is I'm not alone.

Now back to current analysis:

1/ The Climate debate has moved on / been overcome with economic imperatives. People no longer care for costly action - by whoever.

2/ The ALP didn't win in 2007, Rudd did. For some inexplicable (to me) reason - people like Rudd. I truly don't understand it - even if he was a true economic conservative (he's not - but he successfully sold it), I still would like him - I see him as a snaky diplomat who over promises with no intention or ability to actually deliver.

But - he campaigned as John Howard lite - and he won.

By 2010 the gloss was coming off as people started to suspect there was more spin than substance, hence Gillard.

The Libs lost because they weren't an effective opposition after 2007.

Labor wouldn't have won in 2007 without Rudd, and shouldn't have in 2010.

All we are seeing now is the voters' discontent with the non-Rudd ALP.

Simple case of buyers remorse.

The incompetence and inability to manage their PR just makes it worse for them.

Whether Abbott is any good or not is totally irrelevant to the analysis, or the outcome of the next election

 

[rechoboam]

I'm actually curious as to what has decreased in price....



Isn't one of our biggest electricity generation? So that affects nearly everyone... we may not see the knock on effects just yet, but give it a few months when power bills arrive in..

At the end of the day it's going to cost us more in our hip pocket..

I wonder what effect all the government handouts will have on inflation in general.

 

[777]

Re: Qantas sticking to charging passengers for carbon tax

777 - your economic argument is accurate - except you ignore the fact that we're part of a global economy.

There are too many externalities that essentially nullify your vanilla textbook analysis (which in itself is correct).

I probably agree with you to some extent although a nuanced discussion about whether the levels of compensation for trade exposed export industries are enough etc probably isn't really necessary when the arguments are still at the "Why would anyone change their behaviour if they're compensated?" or "There is no incentive for anyone to reduce their carbon consumption!" level which is what i was responding to.

I also think you're largely right about the political context.

 

[rechoboam]

Re: Qantas sticking to charging passengers for carbon tax

Those of us that fear having Abbott as PM will look forward to the Libs having their moment in the sun. At least then they will need to put their money where their mouths are and show something rather than relying on slogans and bluster.

For the sake of the country I hope I am wrong, but I seriously cannot have any confidence in an unpredictable and mysogynistic PM who's first move as opposition leader was to install Barnaby Joyce in an extremely important finance portfolio.


Sent from my iPhone using AustFreqFly app

I think the Labor party have been taking that approach for a couple of years now...Abbott is this misogynist (with a wife, three daughters and tough-as-nails female chief of staff) moron (university graduate, Rhodes scholar with Oxford masters degree) who will destroy the country within days of taking office. They spend an inordinate amount of time telling sppoky stories about this bogeyman. They may well have convinced everyone that's true but it doesn't seem to be helping much. He might not even be the leader when the election comes around.

 

[HarryB]

I think the Labor party have been taking that approach for a couple of years now...Abbott is this misogynist (with a wife, three daughters and tough-as-nails female chief of staff) moron (university graduate, Rhodes scholar with Oxford masters degree) who will destroy the country within days of taking office. They spend an inordinate amount of time telling sppoky stories about this bogeyman. They may well have convinced everyone that's true but it doesn't seem to be helping much. He might not even be the leader when the election comes around.

He has form, it really is that simple. That's not to say anyone in the government doesn't but Abbott has shown enough to prove to me he will be an embarrassing PM much like Gillard is now. Everyone is entitled to think otherwise but I am certainly not alone.

Australian politics is very thin on talent

Sent from my iPhone using AustFreqFly app

 

[lovestotravel]

Re: Qantas sticking to charging passengers for carbon tax

Abbott's stunned silence - YouTube

 

[JohnPhelan]

Re: Qantas sticking to charging passengers for carbon tax

For the sake of the country I hope I am wrong, but I seriously cannot have any confidence in an unpredictable and mysogynistic PM

Apart from thinking that the same description could have been easily applied to Kevin Rudd ...... why do you say Abbott is mysogynistic? (And saying that the ALP/SMH/Greens said so doesn't count).

 

[medhead]

1. Qlders made their decision on the state election on state issues - primarily the incredible financial mismanagement of the Bligh government and its deception prior to the previous election.

Whatever.

2. It is quite possible - and totally accurate - to say that there was corruption within the government and police during Joh's time and that his government also did many great things for the state. The two are not mutually exclusive.

More accurate to say he did great things for his mates in Queensland. That is not the same as doing great things for Queensland.

3. The Muslim reference - wtf ??

That is exactly what I said! It demonstrates the average stupidity of the electorate. I have "friends" and family :shock: who would base their vote solely on "stop the boats" and the level of misinformation that I mentioned.


Sent from the Throne

 

[medhead]

Apart from thinking that the same description could have been easily applied to Kevin Rudd ...... why do you say Abbott is mysogynistic? (And saying that the ALP/SMH/Greens said so doesn't count).

His on the record comments about women and other things during his time in the Howard government.


Sent from the Throne

 

[JohnPhelan]

Re: Qantas sticking to charging passengers for carbon tax

His on the record comments about women and other things during his time in the Howard government.

Sent from the Throne

No - what things specifically? These broad-brush defamatory statements, with no supporting evidence, are why Australian politics are in such a parlous state.

Poeple are very welcome to like or not like particular individuals, but to label someone with a very negative and hateful adjective, there needs to be some 'programmatic specificity' (As K Rudd would say) to support such epithets.

And hopefully there will be a better reason than "whatever".

 

[whatmeworry]

Re: Qantas sticking to charging passengers for carbon tax

why do you say Abbott is mysogynistic?

[video=youtube_share;pJTX0iWYX9A]http://youtu.be/pJTX0iWYX9A[/video]

Tony Abbott Quotes.

“The problem with the Australian practice of abortion is that an objectively grave matter has been reduced to a question of the mother’s convenience.”

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“If half the effort were put into discouraging teenage promiscuity as goes into preventing teenage speeding, there might be fewer abortions, fewer traumatised young women and fewer dysfunctional families.”

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“Why isn’t the fact that 100,000 women choose to end their pregnancies regarded as a national tragedy approaching the scale, say, of Aboriginal life expectancy being 20 years less than that of the general community?”

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“The problem is backyard miscarriages if unscrupulous doctors prescribe these drugs for desperate women. “

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“You don’t have to be a Catholic to be troubled by the current abortion culture”

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Mr Speaker, we have a bizarre double standard; a bizarre double standard in this country where some-one who kills a pregnant woman’s baby is guilty of murder, but a woman who aborts an unborn baby is simply exercising choice.

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“What the housewives of Australia need to understand as they do the ironing is that if they get it done commercially it’s going to go up in price and their own power bills when they switch the iron on are going to go up, every year….”

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” I think there does need to be give and take on both sides, and this idea that sex is kind of a woman’s right to absolutely withhold, just as the idea that sex is a man’s right to demand I think they are both they both need to be moderated, so to speak”

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