Census 2016 - Travel Overseas and avoid?

[love_the_life]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

I filled in every question completely and accurately - I have nothing to hide - hopefully this information can be collated and used to benefit all of my fellow Australians.

It's nothing to do with "nothing to hide'.
It's more that this is a poorly thought out (the last two times the ABS tried to make names compulsory they were slapped down) exercise with no consultation and putting out a buried press release on 24 December as they did smacks of arrogance. In the past it has been optional whether they keep my name i.e. my choice. I really don't care what others do. I will make up my own mind and please don't lecture me (not directed at you CE - just a general statement) on my decision as I won't on anyone else's.

 

[Pushka]

The totally off-topic thread

Have no issues with demographic data being included. I have done enough of these things and am actually a former demographer who worked with the ABS in 1980's and who created a supplementary census at our Depts request and after which a paper was published in my name and one other in the Australian Medical Journal. So I 'get' it.

However, there is nothing in the ABS charter that requires such specific information as business company names. So I ask - why?

 

[Cruiser Elite]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

iHowever, there is nothing in the ABS charter that requires such specific information as business company names. So I ask - why?

And I ask if there is a slim chance it may assist in some planning going forward then why not? Totally opposite views - it all makes up the rich tapestry of life huh?

 

[medhead]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

And I ask if there is a slim chance it may assist in some planning going forward then why not? Totally opposite views - it all makes up the rich tapestry of life huh?

Interesting. In what way will knowing there are 4000 john smiths living in Glebe, for example, help provide services? From the other data collected they know:

• the total number of people living in Glebe
• the religion of those people
• the ethnic identity of those people
• the age of those people
• the number of people per dwelling
• the income
• employment arrangement
• occupation, employer industry
• travel patterns
• etc.

Exactly what do they gain in terms of service planning and provision from the name of a person or the name of their business? They collect all the demographic information required to inform patterns and needs.
I do hope you're not getting confused between questioning the need to collect and data match names with a suggestion to provide false information to the other question. Others seem to have made that mistake.

Certainly, I look forward to there being sufficient personalised coffee cups and keyrings in my suburb. But surely that would be government interference in the operation of the market in coffee cups?

 

[RooFlyer]

Facebook doesn't force me to answer questions, and I'm not forced to answer facebook honestly either.?

No, but you don't think Google and facebook don't data match? Do you post images there? Again, the faith some put in facebook and Google's integrity Vs that of ABS is naive to say the least.

Last time, I filled in a paper form. This time it is electronic. 4 years is an extremely long time for law enforcement. There is clearly no statistical reason for this 4 years nonsense, but there are a large number of law enforcement reasons. Clearly there is an ulterior motive.

As for your clear insult, I'm capable of thinking for myself and making my own decisions. It's not up to you to lecture me on my opinion. Still the fact that you can only resort to tin foil insults serves to highlight the weakness of your attack.

I see you haven't provided your personal information here. Pot kettle black.

Are you unable to tell the difference between posting that information on a public forum, Vs giving it to the ABS under legislated privacy and security provisions? And like I said (twice now), I will mark my form so that the Archives can release my form eventually. I am not ashamed of any of my information!

I see the government apologists are out in force. They have these things called birth and death registers that are used to determine life expectancy. Please spare us the regurgitation of propaganda.

The only group that this helps with life expectancy are the original asutralians. They only have a problem with life expectancy for those people because they classified them as fauna until the 1960s. Since you're a big believer in everything they did in the past, would you support reversion to that idiotic way of thinking?

So, you are resorting to abuse again? I am therefore happy with the side of this debate that I am on. And just who classified indigenous Australians as 'fauna' until the 1960s? The Australian Bureau of Statistics? Really? Maybe you should ignore the census., after all.

 

[medhead]

No, but you don't think Google and facebook don't data match? Do you post images there? Again, the faith some put in facebook and Google's integrity Vs that of ABS is naive to say the least.

More abuse and misdirection. typical nonsense. I've said nothing about my faith in their integrity. I'll leave you to play with your strawmen.

Are you unable to tell the difference between posting that information on a public forum, Vs giving it to the ABS under legislated privacy and security provisions? And like I said (twice now), I will mark my form so that the Archives can release my form eventually. I am not [redacted insult] of any of my information!

Again you can only insult people. If you want to talk about legislation, then let's talk about the ABS legislation not supporting collection of names. Lets talk about the legislated ability of ATO and law enforcement legislation to force override the ABS privacy and security provisions. Let's talk about the widespread hacking of vastly more secure government systems than the ABS. Or do you really think the ABS has been security than the NSA or CIA? naive in the extreme.

Oh but according to you I have no right to my opinion.

So, you are resorting to abuse again? I am therefore happy with the side of this debate that I am on. And just who classified indigenous Australians as 'fauna' until the 1960s? The Australian Bureau of Statistics? Really? Maybe you should ignore the census., after all.

You're not on any side of a debate. If you were in a debate you'd be able to do more than regurgitate government propaganda, put up strawmen and insult people for having an opinion. It is not abuse to point out that you're just repeating the ABS talking points.

Here is a bit of light reading for you. What is 2007 minus 40 years - late 1960s
ABS celebrates 40 years since Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people included in population estimates

 

[whatmeworry]

Everyday government agencies are providing data automatically to be cross checked by the governments supercomputers.

For example Immigration sends data everytime you enter/leave the country which is cross referenced with other agencies like centrelink, ATO etc.

One of our biggest supercomputers at BOM, was recently hacked by Chinese Hackers. In downtime, this BOM supercomputer is used by other government including the military.

Even the ABS discussed plans to crossmatch private data.

BUREAU of Statistics bosses discussed secret plans to crossmatch people’s private details as they planned tomorrow’s controversial census.

The ABS insists it will not hand over private census data to other government agencies or businesses.
But confidential internal documents reveal the ABS, which earned $41 million last year selling data, wants to link names and addresses to census data to make “new products’’.
For the first time, the ABS will store names and addresses in a database, ending a century-long tradition of destroying them after it has processed answers to sensitive questions about religion, racial background and income.

No Cookies | Daily Telegraph

 

[RooFlyer]

More abuse and misdirection. typical nonsense. I've said nothing about my faith in their integrity. I'll leave you to play with your strawmen.

Again you can only insult people. If you want to talk about legislation, then let's talk about the ABS legislation not supporting collection of names. Lets talk about the legislated ability of ATO and law enforcement legislation to force override the ABS privacy and security provisions. Let's talk about the widespread hacking of vastly more secure government systems than the ABS. Or do you really think the ABS has been security than the NSA or CIA? naive in the extreme.

Oh but according to you I have no right to my opinion.

You're not on any side of a debate. If you were in a debate you'd be able to do more than regurgitate government propaganda, put up strawmen and insult people for having an opinion. It is not abuse to point out that you're just repeating the ABS talking points.

Here is a bit of light reading for you. What is 2007 minus 40 years - late 1960s
ABS celebrates 40 years since Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people included in population estimates

My opinion = abuse. Your abuse = opinion. Okey-dokey then.

Oh but according to you I have no right to my opinion.

Really? Did I say that? Or is it just an invention? I'm sure you'll quote it back to me if I did.

The last link you provided doesn't say, or even implies, that the ABS counted indigenous people as 'fauna'. It is abuse (and thoroughly offensive) to imply that they did. The change in counting was as a consequence of a referendum (thank goodness).

Again, I'm very comfortable with my side of this debate.

 

[samh004]

Re: Census 2016

Woops.
Just did the census tonight -- day early...
Went through fine (and completed in about 4min)

Much easier when you are living by yourself, haven't moved in 5yrs and haven't been employed in the last week..

chicka did mine for me, we were both in the same room.

 

[Pushka]

Census 2016

And I ask if there is a slim chance it may assist in some planning going forward then why not? Totally opposite views - it all makes up the rich tapestry of life huh?

Not even a splinter of a chance it could possibly be of interest for future planning.

I am certainly not ashamed of any of my info. How the heck did that get into this discussion. Implying we have something to hide. I dont. It just isnt the business of the ABS to know.

I am likewise very comfortable in my opinion in this. Inferring in some way I have things to hide or a relic of the ark or of the tin lid brigade is nasty.

 

[Pushka]

Re: Census 2016

As I am not forced into using facebook then the comparisons are not relevant.

 

[eastwest101]

Re: Census 2016

Thinking of using the Nick Xenophlon argument and not including names... Census 2016: Nick Xenophon to withhold name over privacy concerns - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

I must say - it is always entertaining to hear of politicians telling us that they won't obey one particular law as they stand, because they may not agree with it, yet they gather in a big parliamentary building quite often at our expense and make laws that we all must obey, we can't choose to "opt out" of laws that we don't agree with. But when it comes to such things as superannuation benefits, privacy laws or say truth in advertising then all of a sudden they are somehow different to the general public?

As entertaining as the debate about collection of names is - my question to both sides of the argument is simple. How do the ABS know that everyone has at least tried to complete their census form without cross referencing names, the unique number on the census form and addresses? Serious question for any ABS people out there - who may be able to answer how the ABS knows which census forms are incomplete/missing?

 

[cove]

Re: Census 2016

Yes cove is in New York with Mrscove and yes we named our trading business. The questions were pretty general as we saw them.
I do hope the details help our future planners.
Tax returns and banks ask way more questions than the Census folks.

 

[samh004]

Re: Census 2016

Yes cove is in New York with Mrscove and yes we named our trading business. The questions were pretty general as we saw them.
I do hope the details help our future planners.
Tax returns and banks ask way more questions than the Census folks.

I thought you weren't meant to do it if you were overseas?

 

[pagingjoan]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

I was surprised with the census being so general. I couldn't see the problem others had with putting names on the document. It took about 10 minutes and no issues.
The Marriott Marquis in New York has really good high speed internet.
Tonight we have tickets to Hamilton and the pricing has dropped from $2,000 a ticket a month ago.
We need to see Adele back in Los Angeles as she is at Staples Center.

Cove:
Why were you completing the census if you were overseas?

 

[pagingjoan]

Re: Census 2016

Whoops!
I see that Sam beat me to the question.
We will be o/s, too, and I wondered if I had misunderstood the requirements, when I read Cove's post just now.

Mind you, we are on our third delay of the day, and have not yet taken off, so I may have to retrieve the form and fill it out - names, and all!

 

[RooFlyer]

Re: Census 2016

Not even a splinter of a chance it could possibly be of interest for future planning.

I am certainly not ashamed of any of my info. How the heck did that get into this discussion. Implying we have something to hide. I dont. It just isnt the business of the ABS to know.

I am likewise very comfortable in my opinion in this. Inferring in some way I have things to hide or a relic of the ark or of the tin lid brigade is nasty.

For my part, I wasn't implying that you had anything to hide (and sorry if you got that impression from me) - merely that I was totally 'out and proud' . Trouble is, it IS the ABS' business to know (by legislation) - just not to tell anyone else specifically about you, only data in aggregate. If you go to a talk by any demographer worth their salt, you would learn (as I have) of the many and varied ways the data is used - even things which are a long way from being readily apparent.

I guess people either trust the ABS to do their job properly, and as per their legislation, or not. If they don't then they must live in a continual state of anxiety, thinking every data submission to government is a risk.

What about tax returns? We tell them (the government) our name, address, income, all our investments, health fund, bank accounts etc etc ... which IS tracked year on year. The census is no less enforced and legislated than filling in a tax return. Why object to the census, which is secured by legislation, and not tax, which is deliberately data matched across government departments and kept for seven years, not 4 (de-named) as per the census?

As I am not forced into using facebook then the comparisons are not relevant.

I mentioned them in the context of people expressing worry about 'privacy'. I can't see how people, voluntary using facebook and google can be legitimately worried about census data. We KNOW data submitted to google and facebook is captured and matched! that's half the point of these services.

 

[cove]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

Cove and Mrscove received the census form in the mail so I put it in my travel bag and completed it today. No need for us to get chased for failing to lodge it.
As we see it the Bureau would get much better business information if they paid businesses to get accurate info. They don't pay so a lot of their reports make little sense.

 

[RooFlyer]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

Cove and Mrscove received the census form in the mail so I put it in my travel bag and completed it today. No need for us to get chased for failing to lodge it.
As we see it the Bureau would get much better business information if they paid businesses to get accurate info. They don't pay so a lot of their reports make little sense.

I'm pretty sure previously that you aren't meant to fill it in if you aren't in the country - but maybe that's a change this year with electronic lodgement. But presumably you filled out an overseas address, so then they would know that AND get the benefit of the other responses relating to your in-country activities.

 

[pagingjoan]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

I'm pretty sure previously that you aren't meant to fill it in if you aren't in the country - but maybe that's a change this year with electronic lodgement. But presumably you filled out an overseas address, so then they would know that AND get the benefit of the other responses relating to your in-country activities.

Have just checked online - as we taxi - and not intended that the form be filled in if not resident in Oz on the night of the census.
Phew!
Thought I felt a fine arriving!