Census 2016 - Travel Overseas and avoid?

[RooFlyer]

Re: Census 2016

Well, I had a very good census. Better than the Census management, I suspect.

The paper form was filled out over a decent glass of red last night; entertainment laid on watching and hearing all the headless chooks running around trying to lodge on-line (for reasons unknown to me ... even with a site crash, you've still got weeks to do it). As if that was ever going to work out, with this gov'mint.

A mid morning wander down to the Post Office to post off the form, today and then a coffee. Some-one said "you'd better take a photo to prove it, because they are going to steal the mail too" - so I did.



Oh, yes, apparently they are currently hacking to postal service and stealing all the forms. I don't know where they find the time. And if some-one wanted to know how many bedrooms in my place, or how I got to work last week, or what language I speak at home, or how many cars are parked outside last night, they could have just asked. Actually, they didn't need to ask about that last one - they just could have stood on the footpath and counted. But you know how some people just love to attack my privacy for the heck of it. And the gov'mint's going to put it all on facebook, or something.

Actually, while on the subject of privacy, a serious question. What does everyone else do to protect their 'privacy' when they submit their tax returns, with all their income, banking, investment, dependents etc information. It goes to the tax dept and we know how much they keep it in house (as in, not much). Do you leave your name and address off your tax return? I guess its not done on-line? I'm after any tips, thanks.

 

[DC3]

Re: Census 2016

... And if some-one wanted to know how many bedrooms in my place, or how I got to work last week, or what language I speak at home, or how many cars are parked outside last night, they could have just asked ...

Is this a bit of leg-pulling? Or are these questions actually on the form?

I can't remember most of those questions from last time.

 

[RooFlyer]

Re: Census 2016

No leg pull; they are a few of the questions asked. Some of the other questions was whether the person had received any care in the past week, whether they had done any caring of others, whether they had done any unpaid domestic work like cooking or gardening, and if so, how many hours (in a range); any volunteer work done, ancestry (choose 2); how many hours worked in the past week.

Yes folks, these are the type of things people are hyper ventilating about their precious 'privacy' .

Yes, it also asked my name and address (gasp! :shock: - can't they look up in the phone book, or google it?), like it has done every census since the 1840s, and it also asked my income (within bands), just like every other time too. And just like the tax department asks every year, and keeps it for, I dunno, forever I guess - we are accountable for it for seven years. Do people with-hold their names and addresses from their tax returns? What about privacy?

So folks, apologies for banging on about this ad infinitum, but really, there is absolutely nothing different, unusual, less secure, bad, un-private and so on, about this census. Did you know that some people actually did it on line last time, as well?

If some-one wants to hack the gov'mint computers to get your data, they can do it much more easily and get much juicier information by attacking the tax dept, either when you lodge your return on-line, or any time for that matter.

Lets all take a deep breath, uncork a decent wine, and relax, as the star chamber begins in Canberra.

 

[Pushka]

Re: Census 2016

Mmm. Rooflyer, OTT sarcasm just isn't my thang. I feel it devalues your argument.

Quite simply, since it seems to have escaped you, there is no need, whatsoever, for the ABS to know my name and keep that linkage to my data and there is no reason whatsoever why they need to know the name of the family company business. The ATO does require such info and strangely Medicare needs to know who I am for medical information. And I reckon no one here has ever said they withhold their names from such entities so I have no idea why you think asking about that makes any point?

I get it. You dont care. But inferring that others do are luddites is plain wrong.

 

[DC3]

Re: Census 2016

Doing this Census is going to be even more boring than 5 years ago. I will just keep putting it off, I guess.

More data-gathering by the data-gatherers.

 

[RooFlyer]

Re: Census 2016

Mmm. Rooflyer, OTT sarcasm just isn't my thang. I feel it devalues your argument.

Quite simply, since it seems to have escaped you, there is no need, whatsoever, for the ABS to know my name and keep that linkage to my data and there is no reason whatsoever why they need to know the name of the family company business. The ATO does require such info and strangely Medicare needs to know who I am for medical information. And I reckon no one here has ever said they withhold their names from such entities so I have no idea why you think asking about that makes any point?

I get it. You dont care. But inferring that others do are luddites is plain wrong.

Again Pushka, apologies if my arguments offend. Yes, I do have a weakness for being facetious, but really, some of the arguments presented against the census (not just here) are just plain, well, un-smart and some reactions have bordered on the hysterical (you should hear the pap that was on my local ABC radio this morning).

The reason I make the point about names on tax records is to point out the silliness about the 'privacy' argument - as in "the government will abuse my information, or have it hacked". Sure, I can't and haven't said that isn't possible, but if the government wants to misuse one's information, or if their computers get hacked, then one's information is already there, ready to be abused or hacked. Ditto for many facebook or google users. 'Privacy' just isn't an argument against the census, UNLESS one is scrupulous about with-holding name and address in all cases. Then the person is on the high moral ground.

We can disagree about the need for names - I know that there are good outcomes from having names included - the matching to death records for age-at-death type data is one, and obviously very important for indigenous people, showing time and time again their disadvantage (and non indigenous people's data are used in comparison, in that case). OK? That's just one. Seeing how people move around is another.

I'm not saying others are luddites - I'm the anti technology one! - but I am saying in my own bumptious way that most of the arguments presented here against the census just don't hold up. Again, there isn't any info, technology, question, or anything that hasn't occurred before, or the information is already with the government, hacked or unhacked.

I found the question about my company a bit bizarre. But again, its a case of 'so what' for me. The government knows all about this arrangement.

BUT the main reason I'm extra passionate about the census is because I've been a family historian for 25 years. In the future, your descendants WILL be curious about you; the census data for Australia, the UK, Ireland, USA etc up to 1911 (currently) is pure gold for us presently in finding out about who and where we came from. Most of our footprints today are digital, and will be erased one way or another when we die. I, and last time, 66% of forms had the "keep for 99 years then let the national Archives release my form" ticked.

I'm sorry we can't agree.

 

[Pushka]

Re: Census 2016

We can agree to disagree

I guess I work on a 'need to know' versus 'be good to know'. The latter is where I see the ABS coming from. So I dont see the need to give them their jollies

Is the website back yet?

 

[amaroo]

Re: Census 2016

ABS...

One of my kids is contributing to a Gov funded study - Growing up Australia About Growing Up in Australia: The Longitudinal Study of Australian Children (LSAC)

The ABS is one of the departments involved ... they ask some pretty personal questions over a 2 hr interview every two years. The interviews are conducted by ABS staff, they are intensive ... bordering on intrusive. We've only baulked at one request - they wanted DNA. WTF, no way! was basically my retort.

From the last interview my guess is that gambling and domestic violence has caught the attention of the "brains trust" ... 30+ % of the interview was devoted to these vile behaviours

ABS is very inquisitive.

 

[RooFlyer]

Re: Census 2016

Not to mention the Red Cross when you give blood! Gosh, think of all of THAT info sitting on a server some-where, ready to be hacked, or sold (for those who don't know about the questionnaire you do every time you give blood, it asks you VERY personal things about your sex life, the nature of your partners, if you have done what to whom ... your travel, your medications, doctor and dentist visits ...). Its all there, read by the interviewer in front of you.

But again .. its for a good reason and I couldn't care less if the world knows that I have [-]galloping pox[/-] a cold here and there.

 

[amaroo]

Re: Census 2016

Not to mention the Red Cross when you give blood! Gosh, think of all of THAT info sitting on a server some-where, ready to be hacked, or sold (for those who don't know about the questionnaire you do every time you give blood, it asks you VERY personal things about your sex life, the nature of your partners, if you have done what to whom ... your travel, your medications, doctor and dentist visits ...). Its all there, read by the interviewer in front of you.

But again .. its for a good reason and I couldn't care less if the world knows that I have [-]galloping pox[/-] a cold here and there.

Think I'll let my 13 year old decide who is allowed to view their DNA (once they hit 18+) ... BTW, 13 is a little on the young side to be giving blood

Q, why does a study on "growing up Australia" for 13 year olds want DNA?

 

[Pushka]

We shouldn't compare something that we do that is our choice (eg donate blood) with something that is forced on us.

And if donating blood I would expect to be asked personal questions. Or not donate if I didn't want to answer.

Its a chalk and cheese situation.

Wise move on that DNA amaroo.

 

[RooFlyer]

We shouldn't compare something that we do that is our choice (eg donate blood) with something that is forced on us.

And if donating blood I would expect to be asked personal questions. Or not donate if I didn't want to answer.
<snip>

As it happens, in my case, I have to give blood to treat hemochromatosis, but I agree with your point.

 

[Pushka]

As it happens, in my case, I have to give blood to treat hemochromatosis, but I agree with your point.

Ah. Back to that discussion of a few months ago then.

 

[QF WP]

Website sTill not up so I am heading to bed and will try again when I can be bothered

 

[Moody]

My my .... what fresh hysteria is this?

Actually it's nothing new - all I hear is a cacophony of "Please explain" in that horrible Aussie twang.

It took me all of 20 minutes to do the census for a family of 4, and I found response times to be fantastic. The only question I hesitated over was signing away all our data for public release in 99 years, but even the kids would be gone by then so who actually cares?

Sorry - that's a rhetorical question, because I don't actually care if you care.

 

[OATEK]

My my .... what fresh hysteria is this?

Actually it's nothing new - all I hear is a cacophony of "Please explain" in that horrible Aussie twang.

It took me all of 20 minutes to do the census for a family of 4, and I found response times to be fantastic. The only question I hesitated over was signing away all our data for public release in 99 years, but even the kids would be gone by then so who actually cares?

Sorry - that's a rhetorical question, because I don't actually care if you care.

Website still not up this morning, so I don't yet have the chance to challenge your time for completion!

 

[Pushka]

Re: Census 2016

Guess it depends what you answer 'yes' to as to how much detail you need to provide and how long it takes to finish and details needing to be provided.

 

[DC3]

... It took me all of 20 minutes to do the census for a family of 4, and I found response times to be fantastic ....

... and it's taken me all of 36 hours to answer no questions at all, due to their website issues ....

 

[straitman]

... and it's taken me all of 36 hours to answer no questions at all, due to their website issues ....

I spent 10 min yesterday using a pen & paper and then posted it off.

 

[DC3]

I spent 10 min yesterday using a pen & paper and then posted it off.

Yes, I should do that. Now, where's my paper form ............. ? mmmmm, I don't have one.

Might try phoning up for one. It might end up being quicker that way.