Citibank Plus - No Fee No Overseas Transaction Fee Account

[oz_mark]

Been using the card just fine in China, and the rates have been close to the Visa published rates (Exchange Rates - Visa Corporate).

 

[Chicken]

Here are some transactions I made. Mixed results so far.
----------
ATM - Hong Kong - Bank of China
2011 Dec 27 23:50
HKD 200 / AUD 25.45
Value of transaction in your currency: 25.92 AUD
ACTUAL BANK FEES for this purchase: -0.47 AUD (-1.822%)
---------
ATM - The Netherlands - Rabobank
2012 Jan 05 12:18
EUR 100 / AUD 127.24
Value of transaction in your currency: 124.66 AUD
ACTUAL BANK FEES for this purchase: 2.58 AUD ( 2.067% )
----------
ATM - The Netherlands - ING
2012 Jan 06 13:03
EUR 50 / AUD 63.01
Value of transaction in your currency: 62.17 AUD
ACTUAL BANK FEES for this purchase: 0.84 AUD ( 1.345% )

 

[Jacques Vert]

Here are some transactions I made. Mixed results so far.
----------
ATM - Hong Kong - Bank of China
2011 Dec 27 23:50
HKD 200 / AUD 25.45
Value of transaction in your currency: 25.92 AUD
ACTUAL BANK FEES for this purchase: -0.47 AUD (-1.822%)
---------
ATM - The Netherlands - Rabobank
2012 Jan 05 12:18
EUR 100 / AUD 127.24
Value of transaction in your currency: 124.66 AUD
ACTUAL BANK FEES for this purchase: 2.58 AUD ( 2.067% )
----------
ATM - The Netherlands - ING
2012 Jan 06 13:03
EUR 50 / AUD 63.01
Value of transaction in your currency: 62.17 AUD
ACTUAL BANK FEES for this purchase: 0.84 AUD ( 1.345% )

Would it be correct to assume that the fees were those charged by the overseas bank; not Citibank or Visa?

 

[Chicken]

Would it be correct to assume that the fees were those charged by the overseas bank; not Citibank or Visa?

I thought those withdrawal fees are usualy fixed, and the ATM would tell you in advance before proceeding?

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Here are some transactions I made. Mixed results so far.
----------
ATM - Hong Kong - Bank of China
2011 Dec 27 23:50
HKD 200 / AUD 25.45
Value of transaction in your currency: 25.92 AUD
ACTUAL BANK FEES for this purchase: -0.47 AUD (-1.822%)
---------
ATM - The Netherlands - Rabobank
2012 Jan 05 12:18
EUR 100 / AUD 127.24
Value of transaction in your currency: 124.66 AUD
ACTUAL BANK FEES for this purchase: 2.58 AUD ( 2.067% )
----------
ATM - The Netherlands - ING
2012 Jan 06 13:03
EUR 50 / AUD 63.01
Value of transaction in your currency: 62.17 AUD
ACTUAL BANK FEES for this purchase: 0.84 AUD ( 1.345% )

So comparing with the 28 Degrees thread...looks like 28 Degrees may have the edge.

 

[Cynicor]

Would it be correct to assume that the fees were those charged by the overseas bank; not Citibank or Visa?

No, those fees are generally hidden 'fees' that exist mainly because the midmarket rate on xe.com does not show how much the fx rate spread/changed that day. The spread looks a little larger than those normally found on the 28 degrees, but only 3 data points is not really enough information. Citi or visa may be taking a small bit but we need more transactions.

And thanks for the posts Chicken, gives a good idea of what to expect. For now the 28 degrees looks to have a lower spread in either direction, so I think I will stick with 2 of those.

 

[Chicken]

The spread looks a little larger than those normally found on the 28 degrees, but only 3 data points is not really enough information. Citi or visa may be taking a small bit but we need more transactions.

Problem is, ATMs in Germany don't give receipts. They don't even ask if I want a receipt. And this is across the different brands / banks.

For now the 28 degrees looks to have a lower spread in either direction, so I think I will stick with 2 of those.

Problem with using Wizard MasterCard for cash withdrawals is you need to have money in there. If you make a purchase with that card, you will reduce the amount of money available for cash withdrawal. So I split purchases to Wizard, cash from Citi.

 

[Cynicor]

Yeah, that is why I have 2 28 degrees cards, 1 for cash and 1 for credit.

 

[leemin]

Apologies - I'm still a little confused..
So. What fees are applicable when withdrawing money o/s on this 'fee free' account?

 

[thehound]

I've just used this card for the first time whilst in Thailand. Unfortunately being on small islands - Koh Samui and Koh Yao Noi - there are limited ATMs, and certainly no CitiBank ATMs.

So each withdrawal I've made has had a 150Baht (little less than AUD $5) withdrawal fee attached - this is almost certainly applied by the ATM's local bank.

I'm still reasonably happy though. If I'd withdrawn money on my CBA keycard, I would have still been liable for the 150 Baht fee plus the forex fees subsequently imposed by CBA. I imagine the same 150 Baht would have been applied to a 28 degrees card too.

Ignoring the local fee, the Visa exchange rate was almost the same as that listed on xe.com, so I think the card is still a winner

 

[Chicken]

Apologies - I'm still a little confused..
So. What fees are applicable when withdrawing money o/s on this 'fee free' account?

Citibank does not charge any specific fee. Refer Citibank web site or Schedule of Fees.

Ignoring the local fee, the Visa exchange rate was almost the same as that listed on xe.com, so I think the card is still a winner

This is what I've been trying to find out.

When I compare the transactions I made (and listed) with Citibank and Wizard, there is quite a difference.

 

[markis10]

Until you do two transactions at roughly the same time, IMHO its hard to make a judgement on what is the best solution, and even if you do, it may change hourly/daily etc etc.

 

[blue_bug]

Just used the card in HK few days ago, with Citi ATM.

[TABLE="class: table1 fleft"]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="class: lf_fc4"]30 Jan 2012
[/TD]
[TD]INTERNATIONAL ATM WITHDRAWAL REF:000014651 Times Square Br Hong Kong HK HKD3000 INCL INTL TRAN FEE AUD0
[/TD]
[TD="class: lf_tright"]AUD 363.23 Dr[/TD]
[TD]

[/TD]
[TD]

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

The exchange rate was 8.26, a little higher than xe.com's rate for that day.

I think this is a keeper, at least for me.

 

[serfty]

That's pretty good!

This report was generated by the Credit Card Charges Calculator ™

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 90%"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: row1, width: 60%"]Date on transaction receipt:[/TD]
[TD="class: row1"]January 30, 2012[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: row2"]Amount on transaction receipt:[/TD]
[TD="class: row2"]3,000.00 HKD[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: row1"]Mid-market rate for HKD to AUD on 2012.01.30:
(Excluding bank charges)[/TD]
[TD="class: row1"]0.121804[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: row2"]Value of transaction in your currency:
(Excluding bank charges)[/TD]
[TD="class: row2"]365.41 AUD[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: row1"]Amount shown on credit card statement:[/TD]
[TD="class: row1"]363.23 AUD[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: row2"]Your "hidden" fee estimate:[/TD]
[TD="class: row2"]0.00 AUD ( 0.000% )[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: row1"]ACTUAL BANK FEES for this purchase:[/TD]
[TD="class: row1"]-2.18 AUD ( -0.597% )[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[greenfrog86]

Citibank does not charge any specific fee. Refer Citibank web site or Schedule of Fees.



This is what I've been trying to find out.

When I compare the transactions I made (and listed) with Citibank and Wizard, there is quite a difference.

So this whole thread has completely gone off-topic however a few thoughts below...

1. Citibank does not charge any fees on this account if you transact overseas. No fee if you use an ATM (eg most of the 'big 4' will charge $5) and conversion fee (ie usually 3% of the purchase amount)

2. This conversation has become one about how banks who issue Visa and Mastercard products calculate which exchange rate they use when converting foreign charges

3. You are not comparing apples with apple when discussing the 28 Degrees Card and the Visa Debit procuct from Citibank - Mastercard as the scheme who does the FX conversion changes the transaction into USD before AUD so there is effectively a double conversion. It is my understand that Visa do not do this...

From the 28 Degrees website
How is the foreign exchange rate calculated?
The foreign exchange rate is calculated by MasterCard International on a daily basis according to daily foreign exchange fluctuations. The conversion will consist of two calculations if the transaction is made in foreign currency – it will first be converted to US dollars and then calculated to Australian dollars for listing on your transactions.

From the Visa Website
[h=5]How does Visa calculate its rate?[/h]Every day, except weekends, Christmas Day and New Year's Day, Visa calculates the rate for the next day's transactions. The Visa rate is selected from a range of rates available in wholesale currency markets or the government-mandated rate in effect one day prior to the applicable central processing date. Visa makes this rate available to issuing banks, which may adjust the rate in billing cardholders. The rate Visa makes available to issuing banks may vary from the rate Visa itself receives.

 

[KateMayo]

3. You are not comparing apples with apple when discussing the 28 Degrees Card and the Visa Debit procuct from Citibank - Mastercard as the scheme who does the FX conversion changes the transaction into USD before AUD so there is effectively a double conversion. It is my understand that Visa do not do this...

I believe it’s a valid comparison, as many AFFs use either the 28 Degrees Mastercard or the NAB Gold VISA card (or both) when travelling overseas for fee-free transactions. There now appears to be a third option, and comparing all three would therefore seem quite prudent to me.

 

[ermen]

Do you guys use the "Credit" or the "Savings" function to withdraw? I use the latter but not sure if the rates will be the same...

 

[Cynicor]

So this whole thread has completely gone off-topic however a few thoughts below...

3. You are not comparing apples with apple when discussing the 28 Degrees Card and the Visa Debit procuct from Citibank - Mastercard as the scheme who does the FX conversion changes the transaction into USD before AUD so there is effectively a double conversion. It is my understand that Visa do not do this...
.

Of course you are, the comparison is 2 travel products that both claim to have no fees on their foreign exchange transactions, and regardless of how they say they change the amount, what matters to the consumer is the end result. If I withdraw $100USD on day X with both cards, which card will offer the best rate?
I think too many people get blinded by how they say they will convert the amount rather than end results, especially on the numerous whirlpool threads where this card come up.

If we were comparing a travel debit card that you can pre-load the argument changes, and then the pros and cons of each need to be examined. But these two cards are effectively in competition and very similar due to the way we use them (i.e. preloading with AUD for the 28 degrees).

From the few transactions posted above the 28 degrees is still my choice, but more exact/side-by-side transactions are needed.

 

[greenfrog86]

Of course you are, the comparison is 2 travel products that both claim to have no fees on their foreign exchange transactions, and regardless of how they say they change the amount, what matters to the consumer is the end result. If I withdraw $100USD on day X with both cards, which card will offer the best rate?
I think too many people get blinded by how they say they will convert the amount rather than end results, especially on the numerous whirlpool threads where this card come up.

If we were comparing a travel debit card that you can pre-load the argument changes, and then the pros and cons of each need to be examined. But these two cards are effectively in competition and very similar due to the way we use them (i.e. preloading with AUD for the 28 degrees).

From the few transactions posted above the 28 degrees is still my choice, but more exact/side-by-side transactions are needed.

The point I was making is that there are two conversions - Mastercard goes EUR - USD - AUD for example, whereas Visa goes EUR - AUD in that example.

Therefore the currency conversion between the two currency pairs of EUR - AUD may work more or less in your favour that two sets of currency pairs being EUR - USD and USD - AUD.

Its fundamentally a different scenario to a straight conversion between just two currency pairs.

To your point about the customer only caring about the end outcome, this may influence the end outcome. Its not about the bank charging a fee its about the different schemes converting in different ways and you potentially losing out or gaining from the extra conversion that occurs with one card scheme and not the other.

Either way I'll be happily using my Citibank plus account to withdraw money from ATMs in Europe in a few weeks and will be making purchases on my 28 Degrees card also. I'll be happier with both outcomes as they are much better than any other card that slugs me 3% and possibly a fee of $5 for withdrawing cash...

 

[Cynicor]

Sure, but for the transactions posted so far the 28 degrees comes out ahead overall. The citibank still seems to have a large spread, be it positive or (occasionally) negative. It has been shown (many, many times) that the theoretical double conversion does not affect the final amount for the 28 degrees card (when compared with a direct exchange on XE.com), so should not come into the equation. What remains to be proven is whether the citibank can achieve a conversion cost that is the same as xe.com/28 degrees cards.
If you have both, maybe you would be so kind as to do some ATM withdrawals with both on your first day away?