[Confirmed Fixed - Maybe Not!] No LHR T5 Galleries access for QP before BA/QF flights

[Flashback]

not sure if we need to go to the extent of a law suit... just yet

I think qantas would just refund the money. but of course... the longer anyone waits for a resolution... the less time left on your membership

I can't see them offering refunds to people like me who have Life QP.

 

[Awesom Andy]

I can't see them offering refunds to people like me who have Life QP.

I guess it depends on the definition of the length of "life". However, it would appear to me that if your intended "life" usage is longer than what Qantas has provided so far, I would think it is fair that you would be entitle some sort of a partial refund/redress.

 

[dfcatch]

As a QP member (1.5 years still on hold), I was always well aware that the value of QP membership was for AA and BA access as well as QF.

Whilst only ever using BA access on a DONE4 (and SG by that stage anyway), I have extensively used AA access for over 10 years.

In fact, AA access was the primary reason that tipped me over the edge in deciding to renew my QP in some quieter flying years.

So I fully respect those who have been in a similar position re BA.

It's not a minor issue - its a major benefit upon which QP has been sold and marketed for as long as I can remember, and it needs to be fixed.

 

[Timba-Jet]

It's not a minor issue - its a major benefit upon which QP has been sold and marketed for as long as I can remember, and it needs to be fixed.

Yes exactly, BA lounge access is a significant benefit of QC membership.

It's been 3 months since lounge access changed for the worse yet QF do not have the honestly or transparency to make this clear on their website of make any official communication to existing QC members. Yet continue to offer promotions to attract new QC members where BA lounge access is promoted as a benefit.

Stop hiding Qantas, and tell us the truth, is that too much to ask.

 

[ajw373]

What I pity most is the QP Senior Life couples, taking their Euro vacation that they have so meticulously planned, with the Mercedes hire car booked, perhaps with the Premium Economy tickets in hand, finally looking forward to using their card after a few years of non-travel, with 10 BA flights booked to and fro European destinations all via LHR, finally landing at LHR and getting to the lounge desk only to have their holiday trampled on and having to sit with the masses. 10 BA flights to go, hugging each other, thinking "what have we done".

So they shouldn't go on their European holiday then. Afterall they would be in the same boat regardless of what airline they fly, because other than Qantas and AA there aren't many paid airline club memberships and certainly other than those two airlines few if any that offer reciprocal lounge rights. In other words for most paid lounge memberships you pay for access to that airlines lounge, not some third party airline, which is what BA is.

 

[Awesom Andy]

In other words for most paid lounge memberships you pay for access to that airlines lounge, not some third party airline, which is what BA is.

Although United has a membership that allows for access to other *A lounges when flying with the appropriate carriers, for only $475 USD per year for a base member. Not very much use for domestic travel though (unless Virgin joins *A - still in most people's wish list).

 

[docjames]

So they shouldn't go on their European holiday then. Afterall they would be in the same boat regardless of what airline they fly, because other than Qantas and AA there aren't many paid airline club memberships and certainly other than those two airlines few if any that offer reciprocal lounge rights. In other words for most paid lounge memberships you pay for access to that airlines lounge, not some third party airline, which is what BA is.

Priority Pass?

 

[ajw373]

Priority Pass?

Not ran by an airline and not in LHR T5.

 

[kooky]

So they shouldn't go on their European holiday then. Afterall they would be in the same boat regardless of what airline they fly, because other than Qantas and AA there aren't many paid airline club memberships and certainly other than those two airlines few if any that offer reciprocal lounge rights. In other words for most paid lounge memberships you pay for access to that airlines lounge, not some third party airline, which is what BA is.

"for most paid lounge memberships" that may be true. But QF didn't sell it as that. Did you see this link? Flying with Us - Qantas Club - for at least 7-8 years they were sold as being access to 250 lounges(all the archive.org pages between from 2002-2009 lead with "250" lounges as the very first thing you read).

Now get this - here's where QF made the big change to their headline!

Look at the difference between these two snapshots of Qantas Club homepage:

2002 - Feb 15, 2009:
Fly - The Qantas Club
"Feel welcome at over 250 lounges worldwide"

Feb 28, 2009:
Fly - The Qantas Club
"Feel welcome at over 130 lounges worldwide"

(give them a sec to load & refresh)


So from one week to the other in Feb 2009, 120 lounges were dropped from their headline. That's 48% less lounges, man.


Please explain.

 

[kooky]

When was the first Galleries lounge opened? Please don't tell me in 2009.

 

[JohnK]

Qantas doesn't play by the rules either, the domestic J lounge comes to mind

I may have missed the context of the post but in what way does Qantas not play by the rules?

Qantas Club members can still access the Qantas Club in each of the 4 ports that have a Business Lounge.

 

[ajw373]

"for most paid lounge memberships" that may be true. But QF didn't sell it as that. Did you see this link? Flying with Us - Qantas Club - for at least 7-8 years they were sold as being access to 250 lounges(all the archive.org pages between from 2002-2009 lead with "250" lounges as the very first thing you read).

Now get this - here's where QF made the big change to their headline!

Look at the difference between these two snapshots of Qantas Club homepage:

2002 - Feb 15, 2009:
Fly - The Qantas Club
"Feel welcome at over 250 lounges worldwide"

Feb 28, 2009:
Fly - The Qantas Club
"Feel welcome at over 130 lounges worldwide"

(give them a sec to load & refresh)


So from one week to the other in Feb 2009, 120 lounges were dropped from their headline. That's 48% less lounges, man.


Please explain.

Hey man, since you read the T&C's you would have seen the very first one that says:
"1.1 These Terms and Conditions, as amended from time to time, and any rules published by The Qantas Club from time to time ('Club Rules') govern all aspects of The Qantas Club."

Then there is also
"10.1 Qantas Club Members are entitled to access The Qantas Club lounge in the departure port when the Member's next onward flight on that day is with Qantas, a QantasLink or Jetstar service."

And these 3

"10.8 Entry to Partner Airline and associated lounges is subject to the individual airline's entry conditions and space availability and in any event, a restriction of a maximum of one guest per Member applies, unless otherwise specified.

10.9 Due to operational reasons, member access to Qantas Clubs and associated lounges may from time to time, be restricted.

10.10 Access policies for the use of Partner Airline lounges may vary by partner. Current information can be obtained from The Qantas Club Service Centre."

So getting to the topic at hand it seems as if BA, for what ever reason has toughened it's access requirements, so the last 3 and rule 1.1 all cover this. Now it is for Qantas to see if they can and if it is worth negotiating with BA for the access to be given back.

All from

Fly - The Qantas Club - Lounge Locations - UK/Europe


Interestingly not sure if anyone else picked it up, but on the two pages you linked to if you click on Europe says the loumges in London that can be used are:

London - British Airways, Terraces (Terminal 4), and The Galleries Club lounge and The Galleries First lounge (Terminal 5).

First time I have ever seen any mention of galleries. These must have dropped off when Qantas moved to T3.

 

[elbarto]

When was the first Galleries lounge opened? Please don't tell me in 2009.

I'm going to say 2008 when T5 opened.

 

[kooky]

All from

Fly - The Qantas Club - Lounge Locations - UK/Europe

Interestingly not sure if anyone else picked it up, but on the two pages you linked to if you click on Europe says the loumges in London that can be used are:

London - British Airways, Terraces (Terminal 4), and The Galleries Club lounge and The Galleries First lounge (Terminal 5).

First time I have ever seen any mention of galleries. These must have dropped off when Qantas moved to T3.

Oh wow, that's hot! so access was actually "official"!

Yikes, I wouldn't want to start conspiracy theorising that the first Galleries lounge opened around Feb 2009 and that if I counted them there would be ~120 BA lounges. I'll leave theories like that well alone.

 

[jojen]

"for most paid lounge memberships" that may be true. But QF didn't sell it as that. Did you see this link? Flying with Us - Qantas Club - for at least 7-8 years they were sold as being access to 250 lounges(all the archive.org pages between from 2002-2009 lead with "250" lounges as the very first thing you read).

Now get this - here's where QF made the big change to their headline!

Look at the difference between these two snapshots of Qantas Club homepage:

2002 - Feb 15, 2009:
Fly - The Qantas Club
"Feel welcome at over 250 lounges worldwide"

Feb 28, 2009:
Fly - The Qantas Club
"Feel welcome at over 130 lounges worldwide"

(give them a sec to load & refresh)


So from one week to the other in Feb 2009, 120 lounges were dropped from their headline. That's 48% less lounges, man.


Please explain.

Amazing !!!! Under lounge locations, Galleries Lounges in Terminal 5 are listed and yet Qantas have been denying this was so.

I do now recall seeing this and unfortunately never thought to print it off.

I wonder HOW or WHEN Qantas will explain this !!!!

Jojen

 

[user_]

Those that see this change as a significant reduction in benefits and have QC membership, on hold or active, there is always the option to request a refund of fee for remaining term of the membership, as allowed in the T&C.

As I prefer to fly to FRA, this doesn't impact on me, atm.

Just an FYI updated, I did ask just that of Qantas (IE, for a refund on the balance of membership) and was told a couple of things over 2 emails:

On Refund:

Thank you for contacting The Qantas Club and Frequent Flyer Service Centre.


Unfortunately, we don t compensate or offer refunds past 14 working days from receiving the initial payment. I d like to reinforce that The Qantas Club access guidelines under the Terms and Condition section of our website haven t changed and are outlined for the benefit of our members.

I understand that it is frustrating that British Airways has suddenly enforced this ruling and conveniently suggested that Qantas have changed their access guidelines, when in fact we haven t at any stage.

Again, I do apologise for the confusion and lack of clarity provided at the time you were attempting to access the T5 Galleries Lounge. If you would like to pursue this matter further, I can only suggest that you raise your concerns with Qantas Customer Care directly. The email address is ... gave customer care email...

[my name] , we do appreciate your loyalty to Qantas and thank you for taking the time to write to us. I hope the information provided has helped clarify your concerns.

Kind Regards,


Steve
The Qantas Club and Frequent Flyer Service Centre

Generally

I reiterate the only exception to this arrangement is in Terminal 3 at Heathrow, where Qantas has a separate arrangement with British Airways to allow Qantas Club members departing on a Qantas service to access to the British Airways Galleries lounge at T3 only.

Regrettably, the British Airways Galleries lounge in T5, won t allow Qantas Club members to access, even when travelling on a British Airways service.

I regret that we are unable to do anything further on this occasion, as we re completely powerless to the demands of British Airways.

Hopefully this will change, but I am not holding my breath. I was actually allowed entry one week, and 6 days later, when flying with my boss (not a FF) we were denied entry. Very embarrassing. I understand that they must make decisions about access - my complaint is about poor communication.

 

[N860CR]

That is an absolutley terrible response, however I guess we've come to expect that from Qantas.

To try to pin it all on BA is very poor form, especially going as far as stating that "they are powerless".

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Just an FYI updated, I did ask just that of Qantas (IE, for a refund on the balance of membership) and was told a couple of things over 2 emails:

On Refund:


Generally


Hopefully this will change, but I am not holding my breath. I was actually allowed entry one week, and 6 days later, when flying with my boss (not a FF) we were denied entry. Very embarrassing. I understand that they must make decisions about access - my complaint is about poor communication.

thanks for the update.

unfortunately this is only half the issue. once the remaining BA clubs are redesigned as galleries lounges (which I understand they are once they undergo refurbishment) then we won't have access to those either. so we lose a sizable proportion of lounges.

that is a material change, which I don't believe wording (terraces and executive clubs) will get around.

I believe the initial listing of terraces and executive clubs was to make it clear we would have access to BA lounges as distinct from third party lounges operated by another airline for BA.

galleries are still BA lounges... just a different name.

we'll wait and see. but I think this is a material change, and refund should be allowed for...

 

[jojen]

That is an absolutley terrible response, however I guess we've come to expect that from Qantas.

To try to pin it all on BA is very poor form, especially going as far as stating that "they are powerless".

Today I received my Qantas Club membership pack. [ Mr jojen was going to renew his in Feb, but we decided I would join instead to take advantage of the 40000 points !!!! ]

It clearly states

"Enjoy a warm welcome world wide"

When travelling with British Airways or American Airlines, you and a guest are welcome to visit any of their lounges,giving you access to more than 130 Qantas,partner airline and associated lounges around the world."

Over the page under terms and conditionsit states

" Lounge access
Partner airline lounges: You and a guest can visit British Airways lounges[Terraces and Executive Club lounges] and American Airlines Admirals Club lounges when your next onward flight is operated by the airline whose lounge you visit and that airlines flght number or a QF flight number is on your ticket."

jojen

 

[NM]

That is an absolutley terrible response, however I guess we've come to expect that from Qantas.

To try to pin it all on BA is very poor form, especially going as far as stating that "they are powerless".

But is it BA who has decided that their Galleries lounges should only be accessible by passengers with FF status or travelling in premium cabins. Its BA that decided they do not want to allow access to their Galleroies lounges via a paid membership.

From what I have seen and from my reading of the situation, its not matter of BA asking QF to pay for the access, but a matter of BA standing firm on their desire to not provide a means of access to Galleries Lounges for paid memberships.

Keep in mind that BA does not offer a paid membership program, and their Executive Club members earn no status for the heavily discounted fares. So it is my belief that BA wants to ensure that their BAEC membership is not incented to purchase a Qantas Club membership for the purpose of gaining access to their Galleries Lounge in T5 when choosing to purchase very cheap fares and never earning eough BAEC status for access. I believe oits BA's way of protecting their revenues by encouraging those that want Galleries lounge access to either purchase Club or First fares, or to purchase econpmy fares that earn FF status (ie are more profitable for BA).

Not sure what QF can do about it now. If QF offers to pay BA each time a QC member enters, then QF will likely need to increase the membership fee to cover the additional cost.

I don't know the commercial arrangements between airlines for lounge access, and I expect it varies between airline parnerships. I know that as an AA/oneWorld status member I can walk into a Qantas domestic lounge just by showing my boarding pass. Its not swiped or any record taken of my entry so I assume there is no cross charging between the airlines for OneWorld access to lounges.