[Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26] was 10April

[SeatBackForward]

re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26-was]10April

It would seem this change is most effecting or concerning to those who have accumulated QFF points with the intention of converting them into flights, additional points and SCs at the cheapest conversion rate.

The analogy to this is buying gift cards and holding onto them for use during sales/discount periods.

This is effectively making yourself a creditor to QF. Its in any company's interest to maximise the use of creditors for cash flow purposes. Don't surprised if this change was driven by the financial analysts within QF.

Just bear in mind creditors are only slightly above shareholders in getting their money back if the company folds...

 

[Kangol]

re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26-was]10April

So the QFF program is the new Flybuys?

I'm not too familiar with the history and details of Flybuys, what in particular are you referring to?

 

[Awesom Andy]

re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26-was]10April

I'm not too familiar with the history and details of Flybuys, what in particular are you referring to?

It's a frequent shopper reward, at specific shops/supermarkets/etc. The reference here is that QFF is no longer about flying as someone can simply spend $$ at the supermarket and get a free flight, be it a classic F award to LHR, or one of our prized MASAs.

 

[ashleyn]

re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26-was]10April

I have been following this thread since it started. I've studied the threads on how to book JASA at Classic points levels (now a dead budgie) and I have to admit that I have only ever booked one JASA. I'm sure those crying about the loss of marginal JASA/FASA will correct me but I could never find them ! So this change to me, and countless other QF customers is irrelevant I suspect. I also suspect that QF have done their research and come to the same conclusion. I'm still going to spend my reasonable stash of points on a J Europe trip for me and Mrs ashleyn next year (Classic Awards), just as I was planning before these changes as my research on JASA before their demise showed I required millions of points and a lot of money just to earn points and SC.

 

[Aus ATC]

re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26-was]10April

I'm sure those crying about the loss of marginal JASA/FASA will correct me but I could never find them ! So this change to me, and countless other QF customers is irrelevant I suspect. I also suspect that QF have done their research and come to the same conclusion.

Hi Ashleyn, With respect, before the changes, the "marginal" JASA/FASAs were available - it just took some patience to find them - generally (but not always) available for the same flights as "Classic" awards. Seems they still are (for now) but with a phone call (and not very well publicised by QANTAS - who reads the fine print on emails??)

If Classic Awards meet your needs, then great. For me, the option of a JASA at a small (marginal) cost above the same flight booked as a Classic remains attractive, as my flying (being split by work between QF and VA) makes it difficult to retain WP without them. But I am not crying yet...

 

[drron]

re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26-was]10April

Looking at an award BNE-NRT next year.JASA-873900 points.Classic-72000 points plus for 2 of us $576.72.Plus SYD-NRT is in PE.
An Aaward-45000 points.plus for the 2 of us $US175.20.And we get to travel in J.

Guess which one I will book?

 

[Deleted User]

re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26-was]10April

Looking at an award BNE-NRT next year.JASA-873900 points

How can they make money that level of points is beyond me

Must be 1st April again..... or on the Qantas site it seems to always be April 1st...



Edit: Thinking about it more, why only make it ~800k...? or even ~8,000,000...?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dik_wnOE4dk

 

[JohnK]

re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26-was]10April

If you believe the PR spin, QFF is the only profitable part of the airline. How do you think that is the case? It is by exactly that, people spending to 'buy' points. These have a value, and sure the example you show is a low-value example to QF - so fix that.

I have spent more than triple that amount of points to earn a measly 180 SCs, and will continue to do so as I only redeem for International flights I want to take and haven't done any status runs (not needed).

I don't begrudge those who do though, if they're crafty enough to work out some status run and give up their time and points - it's of no concern to me. If low value status runs are the problem, clamp down on those, don't make blanket changes to a fundamental part of the programme.

I think Qantas is trying to fix the easy way people are getting status. We do not know what sort of feedback they receive about crowded lounges, lack of Platinum+ greetings, op-ups etc.

Perhaps they are witholding some information but they are under no obligation to inform AFF of their reasoning behind and changes. They told us furffies regarding Any time access being removed and then a week later selling discounted Qantas Club memberships.

And without any information at hand I think that it will be possible that simple Any Seat awards, such as SYD-HKG, are still going to be be possible but may have an increased QFF points and/or $ cost associated with them.

You can forget about runs such as MEL/SYD-KTA with 4 sectors there and back. And in my opinion, rightly or wrongly, good riddance....

 

[RooFlyer]

re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26-was]10April

It would seem this change is most effecting or concerning to those who have accumulated QFF points with the intention of converting them into flights, additional points and SCs at the cheapest conversion rate.

The analogy to this is buying gift cards and holding onto them for use during sales/discount periods.
<snip>

Well, yes, just being a punter following the rules as offered by QF / the merchant.

<snip>

This is effectively making yourself a creditor to QF. Its in any company's interest to maximise the use of creditors for cash flow purposes. Don't surprised if this change was driven by the financial analysts within QF.

<snip>

The whole FF scheme makes any participant with points a 'creditor' to QF. I've never delved into Qantas' books, but I think the way they avoid a massive liability on the books is to class FF points as a contingent liability? Some-one else will correct me.

I have absolutely no doubt the move was driven by the bean counters. xASAs were just too expensive a perk to sustain it seems. And I don't mind so much that they've thus been 'enhanced', with Stage 2 probably enhancing them away for good, in a few months. I want to see Qantas as a profitable airline. Its just the sheer b/s in the 'new web site' etc etc and the b/s spin in trying to camouflage the devaluation of the scheme. Where the company rep headed for the hills. Its probably worked with the great unwashed, who by and large didn't use the scheme to its maximum allowed potential. But a creditable corporation would just say what the changes are, say that the previous benefits weren't sustainable and at least have the virtue of transparency and honesty.

<snip>

Just bear in mind creditors are only slightly above shareholders in getting their money back if the company folds...

Oh, don't worry. For me, who had quite a stash of Ansett Golden Wing points when they went down the gurgler, I know full well where FF 'creditors' lie in the scheme of things.

 

[JohnK]

re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26-was]10April

Cant wait for VA to do another status match- Maybe if we can get enough people to persuade VA they will match us?!

Yes please!

I'll take VA Platinum over VA Gold for another 12 months altough August 2014 would be a much better time to offer the status match.

 

[kpc]

re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26-was]10April

As part of the information hookup last week, we were advised that marginal any seat awards were being retained currently but their ongoing future was subject to review.

Rather than having a private hook up with the moderators, I think it would have been better if Red Roo came to this thread and made a public announcement about the changes to the QF website and the concept of marginal ASAs.

In my industry, if I received a free trip from QF, I would need to disclose this every time I talked aboot QF publically.... (I know all the moderators and I'm sure there is nothing amiss but the perception is now out there. ..)

 

[whatmeworry]

re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26-was]10April

Rather than having a private hook up with the moderators, I think it would have been better if Red Roo came to this thread and made a public announcement about the changes to the QF website and the concept of marginal ASAs.

In my industry, if I received a free trip from QF, I would need to disclose this every time I talked aboot QF publically.... (I know all the moderators and I'm sure there is nothing amiss but the perception is now out there. ..)

Well if you read what Red Roo originally did say about ASA's and now I am paraphrasing, and that is the AFF community would be the first to know. Not selected members of the press, not selected people from various websites but the AFF community.
The OP gave us hints that plans were afoot to change the system and Red Roo and Alan Joyce continually twisted the truth to deny there was any truth to the rumours.
So when dates past, most members were relieved and the OP's source questioned, which was reaffirmed by continual denials by those in QF.
So eventually when changes did go through, most members anger I feel was not directed at the OP, the mods/admin but rather QF for lulling us into a false sense of security. So with Alan Joyce at the helm of QF, his and QF's creditability with its loyal flyers will forever be questioned.

 

[Nizar]

re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26-was]10April

You can forget about runs such as MEL/SYD-KTA with 4 sectors there and back. And in my opinion, rightly or wrongly, good riddance....

Wow what a hater lol

 

[serfty]

re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26-was]10April

Rather than having a private hook up with the moderators, I think it would have been better if Red Roo came to this thread and made a public announcement about the changes to the QF website and the concept of marginal ASAs.

In my industry, if I received a free trip from QF, I would need to disclose this every time I talked aboot QF publically.... (I know all the moderators and I'm sure there is nothing amiss but the perception is now out there. ..)

It was not just the moderators (and Admin) of this forum who were invited to this hookup, also were invited other people relevant with frequent flyer, traveler forums/websites .

Qantas chose this method of giving a heads up - if you don't like it then there's nothing you effectively do in posting such resentment here.

FWIW, I don't think Qantas use "red Roo" to distribute "bad news"- if you think otherwise, I'd tell you you are dreamin'.

But where has QF said that marginal ASAs will be abolished altogether?

As part of the information hookup last week, we were advised that marginal any seat awards were being retained currently but their ongoing future was subject to review.

 

[serfty]

re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26-was]10April

Rather than having a private hook up with the moderators, I think it would have been better if Red Roo came to this thread and made a public announcement about the changes to the QF website and the concept of marginal ASAs.

In my industry, if I received a free trip from QF, I would need to disclose this every time I talked aboot QF publically.... (I know all the moderators and I'm sure there is nothing amiss but the perception is now out there. ..)

It was not just the moderators (and Admin) of this forum who were invited to this hookup, also were invited other people relevant with frequent flyer, traveler forums/websites .

Qantas chose this method of giving a heads up - if you don't like it then there's nothing you effectively do in posting such resentment here.

FWIW, I don't think Qantas use "red Roo" to distribute "bad news"- if you think otherwise, I'd tell you you are dreamin'.

But where has QF said that marginal ASAs will be abolished altogether?

As part of the information hookup last week, we were advised that marginal any seat awards were being retained currently but their ongoing future was subject to review.

 

[codash1099]

re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26-was]10April

Well that's the question. If the removal of marginal ASAs is what will drive you to another airline then so be it. Obviously QF who are privy to the numbers, have considered that this won't effect their bottom line. In fact they probably see the move as improving it, that's what most private companies are driven by.

Yet QF are wondering why the QFi business has gone sour. Do they stop to consider that years of erosion of customer experience and trust may have something to do with it? Sure, they won't lose "many" customers when MASA's go, but its a coughulative effect.

 

[kpc]

re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26-was]10April

It was not just the moderators (and Admin) of this forum who were invited to this hookup, also were invited other people relevant with frequent flyer, traveler forums/websites .

Qantas chose this method of giving a heads up - if you don't like it then there's nothing you effectively do in posting such resentment here.

FWIW, I don't think Qantas use "red Roo" to distribute "bad news"- if you think otherwise, I'd tell you you are dreamin'.

Well, Red Roo came onto this thread to deny that there were any plans to remove ASAs...if Red Roo is only going to post "+ve" QF news, then I'm afraid their credibility will be lacking. As for resentment, I think you have missed my point completely. Couldn't care less personally if some get "advanced" news as there was enough smoke in this thread for anyone to make a ASA booking online prior, and they can still do so by phoning up; just wanted to make the point to QF (not to the moderators) that some AFF members would prefer that QF make a public statement on AFF, rather than telll a few individuals, who then have to pass it on.

 

[Supersonic Swinger]

re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26-was]10April

To be honest, the removal of cheap JASA's is less an issue for me when I'm looking to book SYD-LHR return in early September, and QF's Red E-Deals (not upgradeable with points, and the return routing via MEL with MEL-SYD on Deathstar!) is more expensive than an SQ Flexi Fare, and about the same as Virgin Atlantic with one leg in Premium Economy.

The whole FF scheme makes any participant with points a 'creditor' to QF. I've never delved into Qantas' books, but I think the way they avoid a massive liability on the books is to class FF points as a contingent liability? Some-one else will correct me.

It's an actual, not a contingent, liability on their books. "Enhancements" such as removing cheap JASAs probably allow them to lower the value of the liability, and release some of it to the income statement as revenue (non-cash, but still revenue). I'd expect QFF to report another bumper profit next half year results

 

[eastwest101]

re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26-was]10April

Qantas chose this method of giving a heads up - if you don't like it then there's nothing you effectively do in posting such resentment here.

FWIW, I don't think Qantas use "red Roo" to distribute "bad news"- if you think otherwise, I'd tell you you are dreamin'.

I think that whatmeworry summarized how the thread played out from an external point of view, and the points are supported by serfty's comments that QF decided their own course of action and will wear the consequences of that. As serfty said - the QF company rep is representing Qantas's interests and is certainly not obligated to trumpet the bad news and obviously would prefer that the good news gets spread far and wide.

Personally - I just take it as a learning exercise and something that we can take with us - even if its just put into the back pocket to think about for a rainy day. As some of the recent posts have said - there are potential risks of modifying our behavior to building up a lot of loyalty points in any FF scheme and this is a textbook example for all of us to think about our own tolerances for risks and what our realistic chances of redemption are.

Its generally accepted that sometimes things have to be "tweaked" - its how you do that, and how you treat your customers/stakeholders that is sometimes remembered long after the details of the actual "tweak" is forgtten..... these tweaks are often business decisions and are important - so why be as proffesional as possible and try to be as transparent and open about them as you can.

It was just interesting in this case that the OP was aware of, and did, put the original rumour out into a semi-public internet forum which can be very unpredicatble but sometimes unintentionally positive and negative and also very informative of the relationship us FFers have with eachother. The good thing is that despite some of the tense moments we all know more than we used to about some of the potential conflicts that could potentially arise due to asymetric or preferential release of information.

We have seen numerous cases where this asymetric information works the other way with complainants going direct to very public social media such as Facebook or twitter and causing major spot fires that erupt very quickly and take time to extinguish. Some complaints are more justified than others and some are the "last resort" where the companies own complaints system is deficient and other times the proper complaints proccess is just by-passed completely.

Its generally a credit to the moderators that the OP wasn't moderated into silence, and that the moderators did their best to alter the thread title to reflect the best information at the time, and that the critics also got their input and some questions about the embargo period and flow of information were also answered. Its also a credit to the forum that members whom feel strongly about changes have the freedom to make their case and prompt/assist us communicating with QF about this change.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26-was]10April

Red Roo is correct in that they said AFF would be amongst the first to know. AFF was briefed along with other members of the media.

this should not be seen as anything special or out of the ordinary... it's normal PR, normal media relations, and part of a standard communications strategy. you want your third party endorsers to have time to digest the facts and present a good story about you.

an embargo is also standard... although I would argue the removal of marginal ASAs was probably not something that needed to be subject to any embargo... it wasn't relevant to the main thrust of the announcement which was the new website.