Coronavirus (COVID-19) Panic Buying?

[lovetravellingoz]

Indeed, I get the impression Aussies are too busy emptying supermarket shelves to go on holiday!
cheers skip

Not at the supermarkets I frequent. And at Costco, when don't shoppers here have full trollies?

I think it is more that hand sanitiser has a run on.

 

[teammongo]

Renato,

I understand your concern, but I will attempt to outline the thinking behind these recommendations.

Firstly, N95 masks have not been shown to reduce Influenza infection in the outpatient setting. A randomised controlled trial (often considered the gold standard) last year demonstrated no difference. We believe SARS-CoV2 is spread via droplet (as per Influenza).

N95 Respirators vs Medical Masks for Preventing Influenza Among Health Care Personnel: A Randomized Clinical Trial. Radonovich LJ Jr, Simberkoff MS, Bessesen MT, Brown AC, coughmings DAT, Gaydos CA, Los JG, Krosche AE, Gibert CL, Gorse GJ, Nyquist AC, Reich NG, Rodriguez-Barradas MC, Price CS, Perl TM; ResPECT investigators. JAMA. 2019 Sep 3;322(9):824-833. doi: 10.1001/jama.2019.11645.

Now outpatient exposure is considerably higher risk than community risk (excluding family close contact).

Second, there is no point in wearing a N95 mask unless you have been fit tested and fit checked. I train PPE doffing and donning, I will tell you that even people who are trained can't do it properly. Everybody thinks that wearing the mask is the ultimate protection, but seem to neglect the eyes. SARS-CoV2 can be transmitted via ocular droplet spread. So in reality it is no better than a normal surgical mask in most hands.

Third is pretest risk, community risk is very low. But if you are caring for a patient with COVID19, then you are at extremely high risk (some papers suggest 30x background risk). Correct fitting PPE and appropriate training are your only defences. N95 systems are recommended but not definitively clinically effective.

In the Chinese units they use PAPR suits, which are powered air purifying respirators. They are specialised systems where the environment is heavily contaminated. Again training in donning and doffing is essential.

TM

 

[moa999]

As I understand as well as being difficult to fit properly, the N95 masks have also got a fairly short use time - under 8 hours.

So a surgical mask is probably better for most. And glasses or sunglasses to protect the eyes.

 

[Renato1]

I get your understanding of the situation, and I think it is correct in a general sense. But I think what the authorities are trying to do is to get the use of such a scant resource (masks) to be put to the most effect. Obviously, if everyone on the planet wore a mask, that would be a good thing, but there are not enough masks for this.

Instead of just thinking "Low concentrations of virus outside mask - mask doesn't work", think "masks are not infallible - but the lower the outside concentration the better", and likewise, "very high concentration of virus inside mask - mask does work" - think rather "mask not infallible, but will severely restrict expelling spores"

Edit: further comment - the general consensus (God I hate using that phrase given climate change usage) is that a mask when worn as a protective device loses most efficacy after about 15 minutes. So if you want to go to the airport and get on a 6 hour flight then get to your destination you will need about 8hrs minimum of fresh masks - so about 32 of the suckers. Noone has that sort of supply.

Thanks - but I think the general consensus comes from people who don't want you or me to wear a mask, and keep it for themselves. A quick search for effectiveness of N95 masks shows most results similar to what you are saying.

But - then I found one article by a chap who tested them himself, and re-used them . And the result is a totally different story.

How to Choose an N95 Mask or Respirator | Inside First Aid

We tested N95 masks or respirators to determine the effectiveness of these masks and give you our recommendations

insidefirstaid.com

Note, I am talking about N95 masks, not cheap surgical masks.
Cheers,
Renato

 

[drron]

Renato that fellow was testing the usefulness of the masks for air pollution not for preventing viral infections.The article previously linked is a trial for the ability of the masks to prevent viral infections-they did not.

 

[juddles]

Thanks - but I think the general consensus comes from people who don't want you or me to wear a mask, and keep it for themselves. A quick search for effectiveness of N95 masks shows most results similar to what you are saying.

But - then I found one article by a chap who tested them himself, and re-used them . And the result is a totally different story.

How to Choose an N95 Mask or Respirator | Inside First Aid

We tested N95 masks or respirators to determine the effectiveness of these masks and give you our recommendations

insidefirstaid.com

Note, I am talking about N95 masks, not cheap surgical masks.
Cheers,
Renato

Just on a totally different angle - how many "masks" do you have or can source? If less than about 200 what is the point of the query?

 

[drron]

Seen in the main street of Maleny today.
.
A fellow gift wrapping 6 rolls of WTC dunny paper.

 

[Mattg]

Well there’s no shortage of toilet paper today at my local supermarket here in Austria!



However, I hear that the panic buying has already started across the border in Italy and Germany, where there are more cases. Pasta is one of the things that has completely sold out.

 

[Denali]

In the bathroom this morning and I needed to sneeze and usually I would grab some toilet paper and sneeze... but today I asked myself, "Is a sneeze toilet paper worthy? Should I spare the square, so to speak, and save the toilet paper?"

 

[scaredeycat]

Thanks but ........Stops sneeze particles getting out - doesn't stop sneeze particles getting in.

I know that's what is being pushed by medical professionals - including two on Fox News the other day.

But it doesn't make sense, and no rational explanation has been offered that I have heard so far.

The US CDC is offering advice on what beard styles men can have to ensure the masks work (there aren't many such beard styles, clean shaven is best). Why offer that advice if the masks don't work?
Regards,
Renato

You really need to reconsider where you get your news from. Fox is poorly regarded by the scientific community.

 

[Pushka]

In the bathroom this morning and I needed to sneeze and usually I would grab some toilet paper and sneeze... but today I asked myself, "Is a sneeze toilet paper worthy? Should I spare the square, so to speak, and save the toilet paper?"

Currently? Hell yeah!

 

[Denali]

Absolutely fing nuts

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1066390390402409

 

[ja1]

If i come across a patient with suspected Covid , i am told to wear a mask and other PPE.. i don't buy it that they don't protect in some way (N95 masks). Eye protection is also required.

Who said they don't protect in some way? No-one ?

What's been said is:

- If you aren't sick, wearing a mask (all day) is unlikely to give you any meaningful protection from COVID19 and you're wasting the mask if you think it does. That's not how most of the masks being worn work. 99% of the masks are some form of disposable mask.

- If you aren't sick but looking after someone who IS sick, then a mask is useful to reduce the chances you'll also get sick. The effectiveness of the mask will drop significantly when it gets moist (so if you just try to use one mask all day, you might as well not bother)

- If you ARE sick then wearing a mask is a good idea to reduce the chances you'll pass this onto someone else. Ideally you'd also replace the mask every 15 minutes but since sick people aren't going to do that you just accept a reduced effectiveness which is much better than no mask..


I don't care either way - it's great if people are sick and need to travel or be exposed to the public that they may choose to wear masks. If perfectly healthy people think that wearing masks somehow is helpful and this gives them peace of mind then that's OK by me - it's about as effective as praying to their imaginary friend in the sky which also gives them peace of mind - good for them.

 

[Pushka]

Absolutely fing nuts

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1066390390402409

I was just about to post this one but my link is blurred. What have we come to....

 

[VPS]

I was sure someone was going to post that clip soon - a bit scary and you wonder what those people will be like if there is something serious happening

 

[Pushka]

I was sure someone was going to post that clip soon - a bit scary and you wonder what those people will be like if there is something serious happening

I reckon I'd start fake coughing. That's going to clear them out quick smart!

 

[Renato1]

Just on a totally different angle - how many "masks" do you have or can source? If less than about 200 what is the point of the query?

As that link shows, N95 masks can be reused and remain effective.

If bunkered down - using a mask for a 10 minute run inside a supermarket once or twice a week - won't require too many masks. Or for the two minutes it takes to pick up a pizza or Chinese meal.
Cheers,
Renato

 

[Denali]

I reckon I'd start fake coughing. That's going to clear them out quick smart!

 

[Julesmac]

I went to Dandenong Market last Saturday. It's pretty close quarters even at 8am.....but hell's bells, someone coughed right behind me and I I started paying attention to just how many people were coughing. Like a TB ward. I skedadelled

 

[Renato1]

You really need to reconsider where you get your news from. Fox is poorly regarded by the scientific community.

Four years back they ran a story on Fox News Extra - citing a Department of Defense study on the effectivness of old medication. Result was that after 15 years past the expiry date, 97% of medication were still fine, the only ones that had deteriorated were liquid ones like insulin and liquid antibiotics.

Their Doctor pointed out that the "Expiry Date" wasn't an expiry date, but rather the date to which manufacturers guaranteed their products would be 100% effective.

I haven't thrown out a pill since. Fox News saves me money!
Cheers,
Renato

 

[Tropic]

I was sure someone was going to post that clip soon - a bit scary and you wonder what those people will be like if there is something serious happening

That's when the serious preppers rule the streets...it's not going to be pretty but hopefully it won't come to that... Actually its interesting how quickly things can deteriorate when fear overrides normal societal controls...