Corporate travel policies

[kookaburra75]

Thank you - total cost is a very good point, and we do tell people in the guiding principles of the policy to consider it, but I might make that a bit more specific.

The only issue we had with that, when working for some Aust Govt Clients, they would enforce a limit on how much we could spend per night on a hotel, which would be a stupidly cheap price, and not take into account those other costs. They were happy for us to stay within the hotel night limit, and spend another $100 per day on taxis getting to and from places where we could fit under the hotel cap. I ignored that, and used the total cost model for my teams, and presented the information in the 'correct' format for the client.

 

[Seat0B]

The only issue we had with that, when working for some Aust Govt Clients, they would enforce a limit on how much we could spend per night on a hotel, which would be a stupidly cheap price, and not take into account those other costs. They were happy for us to stay within the hotel night limit, and spend another $100 per day on taxis getting to and from places where we could fit under the hotel cap. I ignored that, and used the total cost model for my teams, and presented the information in the 'correct' format for the client.

Yes I’ve had exactly the same thing many many times with Aust Govt. The hotel daily rate cap was inflexible, and they literally did not care how much was spent on taxis to client and also on one occasion taxis to meals as the cheap hotel that was within the cap (in Darwin) did not offer meals and was not within safe night walking distance for single female travellers. After 3 trips to Darwin on that basis and questioning my taxi expense, they saw reason and opted for self catering apartment nearer to the client and a rental car instead of taxi. Much more sensible. But I don’t know why they couldn’t see that the first time I pointed it out to them, after the first trip.

So the message for travel policy is the clear need for common sense and an eye on total costs. Really the travel arrangers and travel approvers need to have had some poor travel experiences themselves before they start making decisions for others. When I ran my own company, I took my admin manager with me in a couple of trips just to show her what it was like to drive from CBR to western Sydney for an 0800 start with the client on a 2 day training program and why our policy, regardless of the client’s policy, was to drive up the night before. I also took her to Darwin, and made her go economy up so she could understand that too - gave her business on the way back. After these trips, she was a dedicated demon fighting for the rights of our travellers!

 

[Rebekkap]

Not saying it’s *all* corporates, or even all of the time. It just happened to be this particular itinerary.

‘minimising travel time’ may also lead to perverse results… it could be that an itinerary is 10 mins shorter, but costs $2000 more.

It’s just having someone… like yourself… look critically at a quote and cross-checking against googleflights or similar.

We had two pax travelling on the above mentioned itinerary, but different PNRs because one returned a day later. The agency had booked one passenger in eurobusiness for intra-europe travel, but the other in economy. It was the same fare, same times, same everything else. We pointed this out and the second pax was rebooked into business. However we then noticed an agency fee because we had ‘requested a change to the itinerary’.

Err no… this was an initial error that had to be fixed.

Gotta be on top of what’s quoted, and do a critical review.

Good points. I don't have time to do these reviews on an ongoing basis, but we can try to work out something where someone at least looks at a sample - and we can try to structure the business rules so that there's a balance between length and price!

Post automatically merged: Wednesday at 2:34 PM

The only issue we had with that, when working for some Aust Govt Clients, they would enforce a limit on how much we could spend per night on a hotel, which would be a stupidly cheap price, and not take into account those other costs. They were happy for us to stay within the hotel night limit, and spend another $100 per day on taxis getting to and from places where we could fit under the hotel cap. I ignored that, and used the total cost model for my teams, and presented the information in the 'correct' format for the client.

Exactly the sort of perverse situation I'm trying to avoid! It wastes money, reduces staff engagement and is all-round mind-bogglingly stupid.

 

[Sabot]

Yes I’ve had exactly the same thing many many times with Aust Govt. The hotel daily rate cap was inflexible, and they literally did not care how much was spent on taxis to client and also on one occasion taxis to meals as the cheap hotel that was within the cap (in Darwin) did not offer meals and was not within safe night walking distance for single female travellers. After 3 trips to Darwin on that basis and questioning my taxi expense, they saw reason and opted for self catering apartment nearer to the client and a rental car instead of taxi. Much more sensible. But I don’t know why they couldn’t see that the first time I pointed it out to them, after the first trip.

So the message for travel policy is the clear need for common sense and an eye on total costs. Really the travel arrangers and travel approvers need to have had some poor travel experiences themselves before they start making decisions for others. When I ran my own company, I took my admin manager with me in a couple of trips just to show her what it was like to drive from CBR to western Sydney for an 0800 start with the client on a 2 day training program and why our policy, regardless of the client’s policy, was to drive up the night before. I also took her to Darwin, and made her go economy up so she could understand that too - gave her business on the way back. After these trips, she was a dedicated demon fighting for the rights of our travellers!

Part of the problem, is letting other people organise travel for you. The best way is to book your own travel and just charge it to a company card.

 

[Seat0B]

Part of the problem, is letting other people organise travel for you. The best way is to book your own travel and just charge it to a company card.

After the various stuff ups endured when my travel was arranged by clients (compulsory, not optional) I totally 100% definitely agree with you!

 

[Rebekkap]

Part of the problem, is letting other people organise travel for you. The best way is to book your own travel and just charge it to a company card.

Unfortunately, that leaves a lot to be desired in terms of accountability and audit - we do need to be able to check people are complying with the policies.

 

[SeatBackForward]

Part of the problem, is letting other people organise travel for you. The best way is to book your own travel and just charge it to a company card.

The issue isn't about how it's paid for, but setting the rules and limits on what is and isn't considered as acceptable.

 

[VPS]

I actually find Uber safer because it is all booked on the app and they know the driver and the route taken. If you get in a taxi then there is no record unless you photograph the plate and send it to someone

 

[Sabot]

Unfortunately, that leaves a lot to be desired in terms of accountability and audit - we do need to be able to check people are complying with the policies.

You can always audit a handful of people each year at random, however, if you're that worried about whether people are going to take the piss with company money there are probably bigger issues anyway.

The issue isn't about how it's paid for, but setting the rules and limits on what is and isn't considered as acceptable.

My point is that you want people to comply with the intent of a travel policy and thus avoid some of the perverse and asinine outcomes people have discussed previously.

At the end of the day, if you want people to be willing travel for work it needs to be a functional and reasonable system and not a masturbatory opportunity for micromanagers and administrative staff.

 

[Cynicor]

Travel agents are less accountable than your staff, usually. the agents might follow your policy to the letter but that will almost always lead to either random higher costs that you didn’t expect, or unhappy staff when they get a less desirable itinerary,

And the corporate agents are the worst.

My own addition to the policy is a general state aim of not needing to travel outside of business hours. Not a hard and fast rule, but basically saying that employees have the choice of travel later, the night before or whatever if they choose to avoid the 0600 flight.
For me, I would prefer the 0600 to missing an extra bedtime for the kids, but someone else might not.

Also, generally, making sure your company recognises that no one really enjoys travelling outside of paid working time.

 

[Rebekkap]

I actually find Uber safer because it is all booked on the app and they know the driver and the route taken. If you get in a taxi then there is no record unless you photograph the plate and send it to someone

I can see why you feel that way. Our view in the past has been that if it's booked there's a record, and registered taxis have CCTV, meaning if anything happens there is video (that the drivers can't access). But as I said above, it may be time we looked at it again.

Travel agents are less accountable than your staff, usually. the agents might follow your policy to the letter but that will almost always lead to either random higher costs that you didn’t expect, or unhappy staff when they get a less desirable itinerary,

And the corporate agents are the worst.

My own addition to the policy is a general state aim of not needing to travel outside of business hours. Not a hard and fast rule, but basically saying that employees have the choice of travel later, the night before or whatever if they choose to avoid the 0600 flight.
For me, I would prefer the 0600 to missing an extra bedtime for the kids, but someone else might not.

Also, generally, making sure your company recognises that no one really enjoys travelling outside of paid working time.

I can see that perspective, and our EAs have done a great job with booking travel, but it's getting to the point where we're bigger, there's more travel happening than they can reasonably deal with, and it's going to increase more this year. We need to find another solution. My experiences with corporate travel agencies haven't been great either, so I'm torn and I definitely recognise your point - my aim is to come up with a set of business rules that minimises less desirable itineraries and random higher costs, but I absolutely recognise we're not going to be able to stop that completely. I'm hoping to find a system where staff can ask for what they want and as long as it's within the guidelines, the agent will book it. Or a self-serve portal, where they can self-book and then it goes through an approval process.

We definitely understand no one enjoys travelling outside work hours, but we're also cost-conscious and I don't think we're going to give a blanket "travel outside work hours" and pay for nights in hotels that may not be necessary. At the same time, we have some flexibility in the policy - it currently says fly morning of, unless it's unreasonable. The example we give is if you'd have to get up at 3am to fly that day, don't fly that day! A flight the night before just requires approval from your manager and if it's sensible to do so we won't say no - and generally we wouldn't expect anyone to be on a 6am flight anyway, when they can do 7am or 7.30am and still be in the office in Melbourne or Sydney before 9am. We're also pretty good with a bit of time in lieu if you're tired from a trip, so there's that as well.

Post automatically merged: Today at 9:13 AM

You can always audit a handful of people each year at random, however, if you're that worried about whether people are going to take the piss with company money there are probably bigger issues anyway.

It's not so much about being worried about people taking the piss, but we're in a highly regulated industry and need to be able to demonstrate fiscal responsibility.

 

[Cynicor]

Maybe find a boutique agent who is interested? Problem for them is there is very little commission, which is also why the corporates are so terrible, I assume.

 

[kookaburra75]

I can see that perspective, and our EAs have done a great job with booking travel, but it's getting to the point where we're bigger, there's more travel happening than they can reasonably deal with, and it's going to increase more this year. We need to find another solution. My experiences with corporate travel agencies haven't been great either, so I'm torn and I definitely recognise your point - my aim is to come up with a set of business rules that minimises less desirable itineraries and random higher costs, but I absolutely recognise we're not going to be able to stop that completely. I'm hoping to find a system where staff can ask for what they want and as long as it's within the guidelines, the agent will book it. Or a self-serve portal, where they can self-book and then it goes through an approval process.

I know what that's like, as companies grow in size. It's a balancing act, and people start complaining about you destroying the 'culture' of the company when you need to start placing some controls around different things.

When I was with a very large US based IT company, they used Concur for the travel bookings and expenses, and it worked very well. The travel booking portal presented the flights and pricing based on the travel policy, but you could select other flights and provide the reasons e.g. I had to take the first flight of the day to make meeting at 9pm. Depending on your role, you had different options for travel e.g. Sales, BD, or Project (had to provide a Job Code/WBS).

Our corporate AMEX cards were tied into the portal too. After I had charged something to the card, the next day I could see it in the portal, add in the details, upload a photo of the receipt, and that was the last I would hear of it, as work paid that item. You were allowed to put part or whole personal costs onto the card, and pay them separately. For example, if I bought food and extras at the supermarket, I would claim the part related to work.

There are possibly other organisations other than SAP/Concur offering that type of service now.

 

[clarkkent]

Thoughts on combining private travel with work travel? I've been under a policy that allowed up to 50% of the days to be private days, assuming that pushing the return flight date out didn't increase the cost. It can be quite nice to have family come along on a trip and stay away a little longer.

 

[Wanderlust_tim]

Thoughts on combining private travel with work travel? I've been under a policy that allowed up to 50% of the days to be private days, assuming that pushing the return flight date out didn't increase the cost. It can be quite nice to have family come along on a trip and stay away a little longer.

Just a data point on this example which defied common sense to me.

I was scheduled to attend a wedding in London. I had my leave and flights booked. I then received notification that a contract ceremony was scheduled in Dammam and my presence was specifically requested by the client. This happened to fall in a three day gap in my holiday, so, i said i would attend as long as my flights were booked London-Dammam. Seemed straight forward to me. Cheaper for the company, it would assist in the establishment of an important relationship, i was happy to help.

The response from the procurement team was that no, this was not possible, and what was i thinking? Instead, I was to cancel my holiday, return to Melbourne and they would book Melbourne-Dammam. That was a no from me.

 

[markis10]

My recent dealings were with an agent with access to concur and it worked well. Previously I used Amex travel when working for a US based company and they were great, getting me out of a number of sticky situations:
1. Denied boarding in KUL due to codeshare issues
2. Sudden ticked cancellation at CGK by check in agent because I had not put some folding stuff in my passport when I went to check in
3. Going through HKG to TPE the day the new airport opened.

 

[Rebekkap]

Thoughts on combining private travel with work travel? I've been under a policy that allowed up to 50% of the days to be private days, assuming that pushing the return flight date out didn't increase the cost. It can be quite nice to have family come along on a trip and stay away a little longer.

Yes, we are happy for staff to do that - the policy just says "with prior approval" to manage any potential FBT consequences. As long as it's reasonable, it won't be refused, but if you're asking for six weeks personal leave off the back of a three day trip, and we're going to end up with an FBT bill, then nah.

Post automatically merged: Today at 11:50 AM

Just a data point on this example which defied common sense to me.

I was scheduled to attend a wedding in London. I had my leave and flights booked. I then received notification that a contract ceremony was scheduled in Dammam and my presence was specifically requested by the client. This happened to fall in a three day gap in my holiday, so, i said i would attend as long as my flights were booked London-Dammam. Seemed straight forward to me. Cheaper for the company, it would assist in the establishment of an important relationship, i was happy to help.

The response from the procurement team was that no, this was not possible, and what was i thinking? Instead, I was to cancel my holiday, return to Melbourne and they would book Melbourne-Dammam. That was a no from me.

That's ludicrous - and we've actually dealt with a similar situation. We happily flew the staff member from one part of Europe to another rather than trying to insist they come home between. What a farce!

 

[Gremlin]

We deal with it in a different way. I haven't heard of anyone else that does what we do, but it works for us.

Our written policy is very strict. BFOD AU/NZ and up to 6 hours. PE to Asia, J to EU/Americas. Cheapest reasonable flight. Strict limits on hotels, meals and transport. Staff (or EAs or Admin team) book their own travel and are reimbursed based on the policy.

HOWEVER, our actual policy is "do what makes sense, as long as it properly balances the needs of customers/yourself/the business". A short justification (spend no more than 5 mins) as to why your booking doesn't comply and our managers have have discretion to approve. Approx 95%+ are approved.

All discretionary approvals and non-approvals are published - so basically staff can see and understand how the policy is intended to apply in practice. Want to stay in a non-compliant hotel which is right next to the customer's office which means a significant saving on transport costs - will be approved. Want to fly QF J to LHR for $3k more than the comparable SQ J flight when the schedules are roughly the same because you're trying to retain status - not likely to be approved but feel free to pay the difference yourself. Want a J flight back from Asia after meetings in seven cities in five days - will absolutely be approved.

If your non-compliant booking is not approved, then you can either pay the difference yourself or apply for it to be reviewed. If it's reviewed, then it goes to a group of senior staff who each give a quick opinion. This means that if decisions are wrong they can be corrected. But it can also demonstrate to senior management who the f-wits with an overblown sense of entitlement are (not that we've had many but boy are they doozies!).

I'm pretty certain our staff like the empowerment and it's a real strong aspect of our culture.

 

[SeatBackForward]

At the end of the day, if you want people to be willing travel for work it needs to be a functional and reasonable system and not a masturbatory opportunity for micromanagers and administrative staff.

or penny pinching to squeeze every last $ and make travel unbearable for the employee, while exec's continued to have free reign.

 

[Rebekkap]

or penny pinching to squeeze every last $ and make travel unbearable for the employee, while exec's continued to have free reign.

That is definitely not the case here. The execs are very frugal with travel and walk the walk.

Post automatically merged: 45 minutes ago

We deal with it in a different way. I haven't heard of anyone else that does what we do, but it works for us.

Our written policy is very strict. BFOD AU/NZ and up to 6 hours. PE to Asia, J to EU/Americas. Cheapest reasonable flight. Strict limits on hotels, meals and transport. Staff (or EAs or Admin team) book their own travel and are reimbursed based on the policy.

HOWEVER, our actual policy is "do what makes sense, as long as it properly balances the needs of customers/yourself/the business". A short justification (spend no more than 5 mins) as to why your booking doesn't comply and our managers have have discretion to approve. Approx 95%+ are approved.

All discretionary approvals and non-approvals are published - so basically staff can see and understand how the policy is intended to apply in practice. Want to stay in a non-compliant hotel which is right next to the customer's office which means a significant saving on transport costs - will be approved. Want to fly QF J to LHR for $3k more than the comparable SQ J flight when the schedules are roughly the same because you're trying to retain status - not likely to be approved but feel free to pay the difference yourself. Want a J flight back from Asia after meetings in seven cities in five days - will absolutely be approved.

If your non-compliant booking is not approved, then you can either pay the difference yourself or apply for it to be reviewed. If it's reviewed, then it goes to a group of senior staff who each give a quick opinion. This means that if decisions are wrong they can be corrected. But it can also demonstrate to senior management who the f-wits with an overblown sense of entitlement are (not that we've had many but boy are they doozies!).

I'm pretty certain our staff like the empowerment and it's a real strong aspect of our culture.

I really like this, and I'm going to think about how we might apply something similar and still have the strong audit trails we're required to have.