Cuts to duty free cigarette limts from 1 September

[markis10]

Has anyone actually had to pay tax on tobacco products previously when arriving into Australia? I'm intrigued to know if it would still be economical to buy cigars overseas and just declare/pay taxes OR if it would be cheaper to just buy locally.

Anything over the limit is charged at the prevailing rate plus a penalty rate, my guess is it would not be worthwhile. I think when it was captured on border security, the cartons of cigarettes were 2x retail cost after penalty.

 

[serfty]

There is no "penalty' rate - excise on tobacco in itself is penalty enough. (The may be a fine based on incorrectly filling out the declaration, but I have not come across this.)

If you get caught bringing in a 200's (<8gm per 'stick') carton then Excise and GST is assessed on the entire quantity.

That's about 38½¢ per stick plus 10% of what you paid for the carton ... lets say NZD70 duty free (~AUD50) ... so a total of about $82 ...

 

[markis10]

There is no "penalty' rate - excise on tobacco in itself is penalty enough. (The may be a fine based on incorrectly filling out the declaration, but I have not come across this.)

If you get caught bringing in a 200's (<8gm per 'stick') carton then Excise and GST is assessed on the entire quantity.

That's about 38½¢ per stick plus 10% of what you paid for the carton ... lets say NZD70 duty free (~AUD50) ... so a total of about $82 ...

Yes there is, excise will be charged at twice the rate of ordinary excise or $20, whichever is higher for undeclared tobacco or tobacco thats incorrectly declared and like all tax issues, applies to the whole amount not the exempt amount, as per Excise Regulations 1925. The goods will also be assessed for Indirect Tax and administrative penalty pursuant to sections 105-5 and 298-30 of Schedule 1 to the Taxation Administration Act 1953.

If its charged, you will get a copy of the form below, (I was threatened with this for alcohol that was in excess of that declared and told the duty on my tobacco would be double the retail cost despite being below the allowance and also on the alcohol the same would be applied, was given a warning in the end).

http://www.customs.gov.au/webdata/resources/files/B1056NoticeofGoodsimpounded0811.pdf

 

[lovestotravel]

Just another increased tax from the current Government.....

 

[medhead]

Yes there is, excise will be charged at twice the rate of ordinary excise or $20, whichever is higher for undeclared tobacco or tobacco thats incorrectly declared and like all tax issues, applies to the whole amount not the exempt amount, as per Excise Regulations 1925. The goods will also be assessed for Indirect Tax and administrative penalty pursuant to sections 105-5 and 298-30 of Schedule 1 to the Taxation Administration Act 1953.

If its charged, you will get a copy of the form below, (I was threatened with this for alcohol that was in excess of that declared and told the duty on my tobacco would be double the retail cost despite being below the allowance and also on the alcohol the same would be applied, was given a warning in the end).

http://www.customs.gov.au/webdata/resources/files/B1056NoticeofGoodsimpounded0811.pdf

Which is all very interesting and true. However, the post in question specifically says that the extra cigars would be declared. So there would be no penalty involved.


Sent from the Throne

 

[markis10]

Which is all very interesting and true. However, the post in question specifically says that the extra cigars would be declared. So there would be no penalty involved.


Sent from the Throne

Possibly, however as Tobacco is a restricted import as such its likely that there would be penalty provisions for import without authority from a tax perspective , I am not sure what they are and how they kick in from a commercial quantity perspective. And if you got the deceleration wrong, the penalty would apply, I am not sure its worth the risk, the answer to that question lies with the individual concerned.

 

[medhead]

Fortunately the incoming passenger declarations are yes or no questions. There doesn't appear to be any limitation that defines commercial quantities on that card.


Sent from the Throne

 

[markis10]

Fortunately the incoming passenger declarations are yes or no questions. There doesn't appear to be any limitation that defines commercial quantities on that card.


Sent from the Throne

Thats one of the issues I suspect, with the passage of the tobacco smuggling bill through parliament at present, tobacco and its revenue are clearly a focus for them!

28 June 2012 - Tougher tobacco smuggling laws introduced

The reality is a humble traveller bring a few cigars in should be OK, just not sure what a few is!

Edit - the BS episode was from 2007

http://www.throng.com.au/2007/07/border-security-australias-front-line-episode-4-monday-23-july/

A passenger loses his cool in Customs. He’s brought with him five packets of cigarettes over the allowable limit. Although he’s declared them, to keep them all he must pay $100 excess duty and he’s not happy about it. Because the man is so obviously upset – he is not giving Customs a chance to explain the procedure. If he can’t afford to pay the excess now, the receipt officers want to give him will allow him to pick the cigarettes up at a later date. The hostile passenger refuses to hand over his passport and tries to leave the airport. His aggressive behaviour could leave officers with no choice but to call airport security. How will the standoff end?

 

[serfty]

I was not referring to 'commercial quantities'.

As I indicated there may be a fine (or penalty) for an incorrect declaration.

For recent years IN PRACTICE, no such penalty has generally been assessed whether two or three carton declared or not, merely that (since the latter half of last decade) the excise/GST has been calculated on the total quantity and needed to be paid before the goods could be taken through.

duty free concession

Be aware that if you exceed Australia’s duty-free limits, duty and tax will apply on ALL items of that type (general goods, alcohol or tobacco), not just the goods over the limit. [TABLE="class: grid"]
[TR]
[TD]If you have anything in excess of your duty-free concession, declare the goods and provide proof of purchase to Customs and Border Protection for calculation of any duty and tax to be paid.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Failure to declare goods in excess of your concession could result in the application of penalties. If in doubt, contact a Customs and Border Protection officer or call 1300 363 263 (Australia only) for information. If overseas, call +61 2 6275 6666 or email [email protected]

[Side Note]

Of course, there's always a point earning opportunity:

Payment of customs duty/taxes

Payment of Customs duty and/or other taxes may be made in cash (Australian dollars), credit/debit card (MasterCard, Visa or American Express)* or by electronic funds transfer (EFTPOS) from an Australian bank account*.

Please note that Customs and Border Protection pass on merchant fees (currently 0.94% for MasterCard and Visa and 1.54% for American Express) for credit/debit card payments. This fee is not subject to GST and is equal to the fee that Customs and Border Protection incurs from its banker.

*only available at international airports.

[/Side Note]

 

[medhead]

Thats one of the issues I suspect, with the passage of the tobacco smuggling bill through parliament at present, tobacco and its revenue are clearly a focus for them!

28 June 2012 - Tougher tobacco smuggling laws introduced

The reality is a humble traveller bring a few cigars in should be OK, just not sure what a few is!

Edit - the BS episode was from 2007

http://www.throng.com.au/2007/07/border-security-australias-front-line-episode-4-monday-23-july/

The info on the AG website uses words like evade and smuggling. Being up front and open about declaring and paying the required duty doesn't seem like smuggling to me.

As for the episode, that doesn't say there was a penalty involved the write up calls it duty. $100 on 10 packets seems about right.

The question remains can cigars be purchased cheap enough overseas so that even with pay the duty there are significant savings over purchase in Australia.


Sent from the Throne

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Yes there is, excise will be charged at twice the rate of ordinary excise or $20, whichever is higher for undeclared tobacco or tobacco thats incorrectly declared and like all tax issues, applies to the whole amount not the exempt amount, as per Excise Regulations 1925. The goods will also be assessed for Indirect Tax and administrative penalty pursuant to sections 105-5 and 298-30 of Schedule 1 to the Taxation Administration Act 1953.

If its charged, you will get a copy of the form below, (I was threatened with this for alcohol that was in excess of that declared and told the duty on my tobacco would be double the retail cost despite being below the allowance and also on the alcohol the same would be applied, was given a warning in the end).

http://www.customs.gov.au/webdata/resources/files/B1056NoticeofGoodsimpounded0811.pdf

as you say - if it is undeclared there might be a penalty.

However - you can bring back as much as you like (for personal consumption) and as long as you decalre it there is no penalty tax.


There is no 'failure' to declare vis-a-vis quantity - you either ticket 'yes' or 'no' that you are over the allowed duty free limit.

If you tick 'yes' then you could have 20 cartons. There is no penalty if you declare.

 

[JohnK]

they would show up on the xray for those who go through it. if for some reason they found a cigar in your pocket that would be considered a concealment and there would be a fine of $220. no warning as it would be considered deliberate.

Yes I know it can happen but they are not going to be wasting their time putting 2 + 2 together that I have a cigar in my jacket and a cigar with my dirty laundry and there is also a cigar in my carry on.

One time I brought back my duty free allowance in spirits but I also had 2-3 cans of beer in luggage and the small bottles of vodka. I forget now but I think it was one of the times I was searched/queried and the guy simply asked "From hotel mini bar?" and I just nodded. Nothing else was said about being over or not.

And I think my little theory on tobacco is brilliant. Buy 1 pouch on departing Australia and buy another pouch on arrival back into Australia. That is perfectly fine as one of the pouches will be open and on my person. And who is to day that the pouch in my pocket is going to be 50 grams? It could be 50-75 grams. They are not going to weigh it.

Ocassionally I may also forget an extra pouch in my golf bag or luggage. Don't tell me this has never happened to anyone?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Yes I know it can happen but they are not going to be wasting their time putting 2 + 2 together that I have a cigar in my jacket and a cigar with my dirty laundry and there is also a cigar in my carry on.

One time I brought back my duty free allowance in spirits but I also had 2-3 cans of beer in luggage and the small bottles of vodka. I forget now but I think it was one of the times I was searched/queried and the guy simply asked "From hotel mini bar?" and I just nodded. Nothing else was said about being over or not.

And I think my little theory on tobacco is brilliant. Buy 1 pouch on departing Australia and buy another pouch on arrival back into Australia. That is perfectly fine as one of the pouches will be open and on my person. And who is to day that the pouch in my pocket is going to be 50 grams? It could be 50-75 grams. They are not going to weigh it.

Ocassionally I may also forget an extra pouch in my golf bag or luggage. Don't tell me this has never happened to anyone?

no body is saying it's not possible. Just if they scan and find one item they may choose to do a more comprehensive search. As we all know from border security, ignorance is no excuse, but may lead to a warning. If they suspect a concealment then it's $220.

Plus you may get a flag for your next arrival(s) so don't expect to be fast through customs.

There is no reason to buy the duty free when leaving australia - it will invariably be cheaper to buy it overseas and conceal it once there

 

[drewbles]

Premium = Wini red?


Sent from the Throne

Was more thinking the Davidoff Magnums. Were my choice back when I enjoyed the gaspers

 

[*A Flyer]

Yes I know it can happen but they are not going to be wasting their time putting 2 + 2 together that I have a cigar in my jacket and a cigar with my dirty laundry and there is also a cigar in my carry on.

One time I brought back my duty free allowance in spirits but I also had 2-3 cans of beer in luggage and the small bottles of vodka. I forget now but I think it was one of the times I was searched/queried and the guy simply asked "From hotel mini bar?" and I just nodded. Nothing else was said about being over or not.

And I think my little theory on tobacco is brilliant. Buy 1 pouch on departing Australia and buy another pouch on arrival back into Australia. That is perfectly fine as one of the pouches will be open and on my person. And who is to day that the pouch in my pocket is going to be 50 grams? It could be 50-75 grams. They are not going to weigh it.

Ocassionally I may also forget an extra pouch in my golf bag or luggage. Don't tell me this has never happened to anyone?

John, technically both of those cases should result in duty being paid and an infringement notice for a false declaration. The Customs threshold for bothering to do the paperwork and charge you is $50 now so if you are over that, they are more likely than not going to send you to the duty collector.

 

[JohnK]

If they suspect a concealment then it's $220.

I do not disagree with your points.

There is no reason to buy the duty free when leaving australia - it will invariably be cheaper to buy it overseas and conceal it once there

That would depend on what you are after. I have not been able to find the tobacco dad smokes overseas.

John, technically both of those cases should result in duty being paid and an infringement notice for a false declaration. The Customs threshold for bothering to do the paperwork and charge you is $50 now so if you are over that, they are more likely than not going to send you to the duty collector.

Technically you are correct but there is a huge difference between duty free price and retail price.

Regardless of what people think I do not agree with the government's decision and I will try and push it as much as I can.

Just as an example it costs ~$70 for 5 pouches of tobacco duty free where as those same pouches are ~$165 retail.

Under the new rules I can legally have 2 pouches of tobacco with me when I return to the country (1 on my person and 1 duty free) so assuming it is still sold the same duty free price then I am saving $19 on each pouch. It may not be much to you but it is a lot for a pensioner.

If I can ocassionally sneak some extra through then I have done a good deed. And I lose no sleep what so ever that the government has lost it's opportunity on the excise that my father would have paid retail or the obscene profits made on the sale of tobacco products in Australia.

 

[JohnK]

So as far as I can see SYD Duty free has not changed packaging for tobacco products. The tobacco was still packaged as 5 x 50gm pouches and the cigarette cartons looked like they contained 200 or 250 cigarettes/carton.

Can someone please explain what is going on?

Anyway I bought the 5 x 50gm tobacco and it would appear that I can open one and have on my person and the other sealed is my duty free limit. So I need to declare the other 3? This is going to be a gross waste of time to go through this all the time and head off and pay duty. And if I end up paying retail prices why bother going through the exercise.

Perhaps this was the intention all along. Make the duty free limit so low that you will not even bother to buy any of it duty free.

Anyone have any experience since the new laws come into play? How easy would it be to calculate duty on 3 x 50gm tobacco pouches? I could leave the 3 pouches here in Thailand and bring them back next time.

 

[Cruiser Elite]

Jeez you should have heard the howls from the great unwashed at LAX duty free last Sunday night when they were told only 2 packs ea.

You would have thought somebody just cut their throats.

And the lack of awareness out in general populous quite surprising.

 

[serfty]

...
Perhaps this was the intention all along. Make the duty free limit so low that you will not even bother to buy any of it duty free.

Anyone have any experience since the new laws come into play? How easy would it be to calculate duty on 3 x 50gm tobacco pouches? I could leave the 3 pouches here in Thailand and bring them back next time.

Bring two back next time, and another two after that.

Excise Duty on 'loose' tobacco is "$436.13 per kilogram of tobacco content" and there is GST on top of that.

Say your 5 pack of 50gm cost $60.

Then the Excise on each 50gm pack is $21.81, GST on the excise is $2.18 and GST on the product is $1.20 - total payable per Packet is $25.19.

Take all five through and declare them and you'll be up for another $126.

Schedule - (1 August 2012)

 

[markis10]

Was more thinking the Davidoff Magnums. Were my choice back when I enjoyed the gaspers

Funnily mine to, and around $10 a carton in SIN