Dear Mr Joyce...

[kevrosmith]

A quick question re what I posted above about the Middle East - can someone who is knowlegeable about aircarft flying ranges tell me if Amman can be reached from any Australian airports by aircraft currently in the QF fleet? I did some quick checking on the QF website last night and you can't even book a flight to Cairo or Dubai on it - not even via London with a BA codeshare onwards from there.

You could try Great Circle mapper: look up the nautical mile ranges of the aircraft and then use the Range option from AU ports.

Great Circle Mapper

 

[codash1099]

I wasn't really sure where to post this. Didn't want to start a new thread, but it fits here reasonably well.

Sometimes we lose sight of just what we have got in Australia. Here's a view from overseas:

Four Continents and 37,000 Miles in Two Weeks: Qantas Business Class Lounge Sydney, Qantas Business Class Sydney to Melbourne - One Mile at a Time

 

[Sprucegoose]

I wasn't really sure where to post this. Didn't want to start a new thread, but it fits here reasonably well.

Sometimes we lose sight of just what we have got in Australia. Here's a view from overseas:

Four Continents and 37,000 Miles in Two Weeks: Qantas Business Class Lounge Sydney, Qantas Business Class Sydney to Melbourne - One Mile at a Time

yes travel is the best education!!!!

we should be thankful here, we forget all too often.

 

[RSD]

I guess people's perceptions are partly based on their expectations and what is important to them. I found the comments early in this thread about flight attendants to differ from my own views. Personally the things that flight attendants do that are important to me are -
- get everyone on board quickly and get everyone seated with bags stowed so as we get away on time (that includes helping me safely stow more than one bag of camera gear on occasion) - damaged equipment or missed connections can ruin an awful lot of my plans
- offer me a drink of water occassionally so as I don't get dehydrated
- deal with any emergencies that arise on board efficiently
- get me there safely
- tell me what I need to know about the arrival airport, transfers etc and answer questions about that as needed

I don't expect (or need) much more than that - simply because I could never do their job and put up with the **** that they do.

 

[Grandma's Wings "]

Just to throw my " Sixpence Worth " in... I have been a Loyal Qantas flyer for many, many years and I have to say that I'm totally disatisfied with the service that Qantas & it's staff are providing at the present time..

I recently completed a flight from BNE/Auck/YVR Return with Air New Zealand.. the whole experience with them was fantastic, the Flight Staff were so friendly & helpful, great food and exceptionally clean toilets & as a Bonus plenty of Leg Room... Qantas could sure take a " leaf " ( pardon the pun) from Air new Zealand and all of this great service in Economy ( Cattle Class.).

Qantas has never been the same since Geoff Dixon left the Company.. and have slowly gone down hill since then.

Sorry Qantas but you need a real "Wake Up ".

Grandma's Wings.

 

[gphamor]

Why the gripe about QF?
Vote with your feet and choose another carrier. I have.
IMHO the service on Qantas deteriorated long before Alan Joyce became boss.

 

[sunbeamrapier]

Joyce is the second accountant CEO for Qantas. Accountants always focus on the bottom line and the shareholders, and customers always suffer in the process. I have seen several good companies destroyed by accountant CEOs - short term financial improvement is welcomed by the shareholders, who fail to notice the cost to goodwill. Over time, the destruction of goodwill leads to a flight of customers, and the short term financial gains become insignificant as the company has to cut prices to retain their, now grumpy, customer base.

Like many Australians I was always proud to fly Qantas, and never considered flying anyone else. I knew QF was more expensive than other airlines, but I was happy to pay a premium to fly on a very safe, very well run, airline with a modern fleet and friendly, professional, Australian service.

That changed with the introduction of the Frequent Flyer programme - specifically, when I encountered a great deal of difficulty obtaining seats under the programme for flights, in business, on the Kangaroo route. My annoyance was only increased with the introduction of the "any seat" programme, with laughable numbers of points required to procure a seat.

But the final straw for me was a very unpleasant experience on Jetstar, seated next to an obese, and aggressive, man on a full flight with disinterested, off-hand, and completely unhelpful crew. I was forced to sit next to this man for half an hour while we taxied to the runway, with him already taking up half my seat and using his enormous bulk and sharp elbows to push me further into the aisle. When I couldn't stand it any longer, I got up, walked to the front of the plane, turned around and faced the entire plane and crossed my arms. I could hear a frantic phone call to the coughpit behind me but the staff otherwise ignored me and the plane continued to taxi. It was only when another passenger offered to change seats with me that the problem was resolved. At no time, then or after, did the crew say anything to me.

I have never flown on a Qantas plane since.

I now fly the Virgin group - Virgin Atlantic, Virgin Australia and V-Australia. Virgin is run by the uber-salesman, Branson. He undoubtedly has good accountants working for him, but he keeps them in their place and his airline group remains focused on the customer.

While I am sad to see Qantas lose its place in the hearts and minds of Australians, I am not in the least surprised.

It is interesting to note that both airline groups have had disputes and threatened strikes in recent times. Qantas has failed to resolve their disputes and there is clearly bad feeling on both sides. Branson's response to the recent threat of a pilots' strike was that there had never been a strike in the Virgin Airline group, and there was not going to be this time - and that he prided himself on the high level of staff satisfaction within Virgin. Shortly afterwards, the Virgin pilots cancelled their strike.

Qantas needs to replace Joyce with a salesman who will make his customers feel appreciated, and even loved, to have any hope of turning around customer perception. However, I suspect it is already too late - too many Australians have now experienced other airlines, and Qantas has lost the good will of Australians over a generation. The future of Qantas is Jetstar - where customers are treated like cattle and despised by the crew. Only those who need to fly Jetstar will do so, and only while it is the cheapest option. Those are not the customers who will keep the Qantas group flying, profitably, into the future. Those customers are already paying a premium to fly Virgin domestically, and a range of foreign airlines internationally.

 

[flloyd2010]

I have to agree, the service on Qantas is not a patch on what it used to be. I flew with QF for many, many years before I ever had a bad experience of grumpy flight attendants, but it happens with some frequency these days. When I flew back from LA to Brisbane in May I had the weird experience of apparently turning completely invisible to them, to the extent that my neighbour had to call the staff back each time to get them to give me something to eat, or drink.

It is definitely the result of management style, from the very top, impacting on every aspect of service delivery. From my observations, the decline began not with Joyce, but with his predecessor. Mr Joyce has simply continued on the same track, and it's sad. I used to fly QF even if I had to pay more, I used to proclaim to anyone who would listen, on 3 continents, that QF was The Best. I can't do that now.

To be honest, I haven't noticed a decline in the menu, but then I rarely fly domestic. That would cost money to upgrade. Improving the quality of service would not cost money, it would cost a change of attitude at the very highest level. Management, especially Mr Joyce, would have to decide they are running a profitable service industry, not just a profit-making industry. That would actually increase their profits.

 

[Nanday]

On my last Qantas flight in January, I had my Kindle with me. As anyone with a Kindle will know, when it is 'off' there is a still screensaver displayed. Maybe you can disable this feature, but I never needed or wanted to and have never found a button or menu for it. I turned off the wi-fi before boarding the flight and left it off while I read throughout the flight because I'm well aware of the risks. As we began to descend a flight attendant spotted me with my Kindle (ignoring other passengers who were listening to their iPods) and attacked me verbally over. It really was an attack. She barked at me to turn it off. I said it was off because the wi-fi was turned off. She said it wasn't and ordered me again to turn it off. I tried to explain but she was too angry to listen. I tried to hand it to her and said if you know how to turn the screensaver off, then please do it. She turned and walked away. I put it in my handbag and she came back 5 minutes later and verbally abused me again, demanding to know if I had turned it off. I said I had. I half-expected her to demand to see it, in which case I really don't know what she would have done with it. I was made to feel like a criminal while operating a device that was no more risk to the navigation system than an iPod. I can understand that a flight attendant might not be knowledgeable about every electronic device, but I expect the courtesy of them listening to me politely and believing me. Have to say that after flying Qantas for 30+ years, they are now at the bottom of my list of preferred airlines. So Dear Mr Joyce, please tell your staff to stop treating customers like naughty children who need to be barked at and called liars instead of listened to politely.

 

[kiddus]

Regarding "service" at Qantas. I noticed the decline back in January 1999, why then you say, well it was the last time I flew to the USA and Canada for a well earned ski holiday. The level of service was great or so I thought (did not know any better) then instead of hiring a car and driving to the resorts of choice, I flew with Alaska Airlines to Seattle and onto Spokane with another smaller company.The service from Alaska was incredible , they knew I was a transfer from a foreign flight, food and drink was on hand , given a business class seat to boot.Enquiries about my internal flight in Australia and my flight from Sydney to LAX were in depth and very revealing.They wanted to know if their service was "on par" and what was my opinion of it , seems as though they were measuring themselves against Qantas ! On landing in Seattle I got through customs , immigration very smartly with help from Alaska attendants, with time to spare to grab a fresh coffee before my next flight (number 4) The exact same service was supplied on return. Since then my flights have been to Japan and SE Asia, some on name brand companies others on cheap airlines where service regardless of the age of the attendants has been good to great.Can not give a very good opinon on Qantas as most flights have only been 45 minutes out of Canberra to Sydney return, nothing to write home about, much like the days when we flew in Fokker Friendships from rural airports to Sydney. So all in all the service has not reached new levels, food quality has dropped off, young staff are obliging, others not so. It seems to me that it is management that needs the shake up, the culture they have developed and developed from is only there to justify their salaries and stock holders returns, it was the people who flew who made the company what it was, but not now. Management needs to listen to its employees and start asking all levels of fliers what needs improving , then act upon the results.

 

[ozflier]

I only fly QF domestic .

I learnt long ago that almost any other international FFP is better than Qantas .So most of my international travel is on United and Star.

It seems like QF domestic is getting stingier than ever with its food offerings - I can understand that those in the back expect little and even on longish flights that is what they get at mealtimes.

Its the business meal offering that seems to have gone down the drain both in quality and quantity.

Just because some so called celebrity chef designs some menu that the occasional guest at his restaurant raves about does not mean that we should suffer from his attempt to make us healthy and lose weight. Not all of us want some half cooked carrots and unpronouncable greens with some spicy Asian sauce.

Please give us a decent meal in J - what about steak or chicken with the trimmings.

 

[nowmedia]

Sorry gang but you've missed the joke. Youngsters can be grumpy as well. QF staff don't care about us because management don't care about them. Simple equation.

Recently flew on QF to DFW (highly recommended by the way esp if you cant stand LAX like me) and then did a few internal US flights with AA. With constant flight cancellations and delays the check in staff were wonderful. They couldn't bend over backwards far enough for a couple of Aussies up for laugh and happy to dispense some good old fashioned politeness.

AA staff have just as many rules as do the QF staff and they are under the same pressures from management. After one cancellation/delay which meant my partner (QF vanilla) was going to miss his connect home via LAX on UA, one wonderful woman did everything to get him there inc sneaking our luggage thru (on my ticket). AA staff just seem to be not ground down as much as the poor devils at QF.

As for AJ heres my one free tip which Ive included in every one of those 5000 friggin surveys that QF keep asking me to fill in: gratuitous upgrades. Yes thats right, upgrade me just for the sake of it. Because you can. Once a year would do it. That would keep me chipper. Especially when Im travelling with my 84 year old father and BEGGING (anyone whos job it is to listen) to use my POINTS to upgrade us. And yes folks, you guessed it, we get on the plane last and walk past those empty seats in business...

 

[r0bs]

I would have to say your airline really IS looking very sick. I am a Gold FF and have been for 4 years, but I have made up my mind NEVER to willingly fly with QANTAS again... Why?

Because the attitude of your staff (perhaps from your partnership with BA) has rubbed off on your staff. BA stands for BAD ATTITUDE.

You have OLD planes, poor service, a lounge full of bogans (it is like pigs swilling at the trough when the booze comes out) and staff with the most appalling attiudes I have ever met.

What topped it off for me was the last flight I made with you. I was flying from Singapore to Oz in business class on an A380 (one of the few new planes you own). The male cabin supervisor was appalling. I have NEVER seen such snobbery and lack of respect. (not to me mind, but just appalling all the same). He was condecending to everyone, including a new, and very helpful flight attendant.

It spoiled the whole flight for me. It was all I could do not to get up and punch the guy. That is how bad it was.

I'm pretty sure you now about these short-comings, but they don't seem to be getting any better.

Virgin have their flaws, but they are streets ahead in service and attitude.

I'm letting my QANTAS membership lapse. Can't see the point.

I predict your airline is DEAD, but just not buried yet.

 

[howiesue]

EVERYONE who flies Qantas should read the book "The Men Who Killed Qantas"... (and No I didn't write it nor do I stand to gain anything from purchases.) Then you would understand why this once classic airline is classic no more. Like so many other companies chasing profit (nothing wrong with that in itself - there are investors to satisfy), cost cutting has become the sole focus instead of just one of many areas that need to be looked at to stay competitive. Mr Joyce should have stayed at Ryanair and, despite his apparent success with Jetstar, IMHO does the Qantas "image" no good whatsoever. But it did not start with him - his predecessors started the rot. Read the book - it's a fascinating insight into the demise of a National Icon.

 

[EmilyHoward]

Well this has been quite an interesting debate so far. I read the first 3 pages then moved to the last page as I think it had gone 'off-topic' a bit. I fly quite a lot both internationally and domestically and usually on Qantas as long as I can. I would comment that from my own thought process prior to my flight I just wonder "What will this one be like?" Are there newspapers to pick up or not? Are the headphones (in J) J ones or Y ones? What in heaven's name will the food be like today? (Sometimes it's great and sometimes dreadful) What will the screens be like? Sometimes they are out of focus and 'white', sometimes okay. What will the FAs be like? Age, looks, sex, gay or straight doesn't worry me in the least. It's all about their ATTITUDE. Will the Sudoku puzzles be done? Usually they are LOL so you don't get to do them. I don't think Qantas probably realise how many people are annoyed by having Sudoku puzzles not to do!

You never really know just what you are going to get so, .... be prepared for it. There has been a price war over the recent years and I think flights are not too badly priced these days. If I get on a flight from Perth to Sydney then it's only 4 and a bit hours so hey I've got my ipod, ipad. I can listen to music, learn something or watch films on the ipad. As for the food if you don't like the offering, leave it. You can't satisfy everybody.

As for AJ I wouldn't want his job anyway. It must be so hard. So many stakeholders to satisfy. Although I do agree about one point mentioned. An accountant running a business is not always good in itself. You do have to be innovative and that is definitely not usually in the dictionary of accountants but you can learn these things to some extent by going on courses.

Above all else that maybe wrong at Q I believe that everything tumbles down and results from having a generally unhappy staff. If your staff are happy then pretty much if you have the right business model things will be okay. The one thing that Richard (Branson) has always done well is look after the staff ... not necessarily paying them more money but KEEPING THEM HAPPY. Making them want to be there. If I was running Q that is the first thing I would be concentrating on.

EH

 

[harvyk]

Kiddus, am I reading your post right? Is the last time you've flown on QF for any serious distance back in '99, and the rest have been CBR-SYD vv?
I know that QF have been dropping the ball of late, but a CBR-SYD flight is never going to have great service... By the time they give you food \ drink it's time to pack everything up and land...

 

[pthomson]

having just returned from overseas and experiencing Air France between Singapore and Paris, I have absolutely no complaints about Qantas at all. Never again Air France!! Be warned Qantas use Air France in a code share arrangement and their planes and service do not measure up at all.

 

[possum FF]

From my experience, the 'aged' FAs are the more chirpy and effective. I would rather be with them in an emergency. But, I am of their age group.
Its the young ones who are sour-faced.
Have a chat to one to find out how their day has been - the stories I have heard are frightening - no wonder they might get grumpy.
Have a look at the Economist this week to get an understanding of the challenges facing Qantas. I found this article rather startling in comprehending the enormity of the challenges presented by Asia & ME airlines.
This does not, of course, forgive the clear disconnect between management & the workers - started, of course, under Dixon/ Jackson.
I will be interested in the 25 August announcement by AJ.

 

[possum FF]

Emily Howard .... Bravo. AJ can learn from James Strong.

 

[harvyk]

Have a look at the Economist this week to get an understanding of the challenges facing Qantas. I found this article rather startling in comprehending the enormity of the challenges presented by Asia & ME airlines.

I take everything the economist says about airtravel with a big grain of salt. These are the same guys who one recommended that life jackets and life rafts be taken off planes as they serve no purpose as water ditching is impossible to survive (ignoring the fact that there had been successful water ditchings in the past) and the same guys who just recently published an article which basically said planes fly at such speeds that a different of just 10km/h slower or faster would result in planes falling out of the sky.